I don’t know if it IS a thing, but it may be that ponazuril can be compounded, as an option, if you want that drug.
Thanks for following up. I haven’t received any new responses from any of the vets I contacted. I followed up with R&R but didn’t hear back from them.
Someone at my barn offered to get on Jasper to see if a different rider mattered. It did not. I was hoping maybe it was me and I was making him anxious but that doesn’t seem to be the case.
I am leaning towards treating him for EPM to see if it helps while also doing groundwork to work through anxiety issues.
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It will be difficult to work through anxiety issues when the horse is in pain/discomfort even if that discomfort is intermittent.
He looks uncomfortable to me. The Vet who responded to you also thought he looked uncomfortable.
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Is your vet not helping pursue advice from specialists?
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He is reaching out to specialist and has been very involved. Dr. Colmer thought my team was doing a really good job and she would have suggested all the things we have already done. But he also knows I am limited in how much I can do.
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I agree. It is really a conundrum. I don’t know if his anxiety is 100% related to his physical issue. I don’t know if I was able to fix the physical issue that his anxiety would completely go away.
I can’t seem to get a definitive answer because he doesn’t present in an obvious way for any one particular disease or condition. So that leaves me with running tests to rule things out or trying medications for something like EPM to see if he improves. It’s incredibly hard to believe that I picked the one horse that has an issue that no one seems to have ever seen before. Sorry, feeling very frustrated today.
If anyone wants to see the video from Sunday’s attempted ride by someone else at my barn, links are below. She was on for just over 8 minutes, but I broke it up into 4 videos. What I see is him dragging his left hind leg/foot from time to time, his head is high, his front end looks disconnected from his back end, he looks like he is in pain, and all the while he is trying to be good and hold it together. If anyone see’s anything else, please let me know.
Video 1: https://youtu.be/j3YNulrvxow
Video 2: https://youtu.be/6en5UUavV0E
Video 3: https://youtube.com/shorts/lBuij8RDNvw?feature=share
Video 4: https://youtu.be/y989HPsqfMo
It’s about $200 for the compounded EPM treatment that generally works better than Marquis. That’s not too expensive I think it would be worth a shot.
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Gosh, what an unusual case. I would vote for something going on in his pelvis…tumor? Something the saddle with riders weight exacerbates? He is very distracted even before she gets on. He is trying so hard to be good. We don’t see EPM much around here but he really doesn’t look neuro to me. He knows where is feet are and I don’t see any tripping and he really isn’t dragging his hinds much. He is very tense and I think painful. His tail is very telling.
Poor guy. I hope you can find out what is going on. Thank you for taking us on this journey with you.
Susan
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Seeing that video I would definitely think his behavior is pain related. Did you lunge him prior to putting a rider up there?
How does he do if you work him on the lungeline? Or if he runs around in the field? Is he normal at those times?
I would still check for muscle diseases/cramping/tieing up. It doesn’t 100% fit but he just looks so painful in those videos. When you typically think of EPM and neurological disorders you usually don’t think of them being painful conditions.
If he is affected on the lungeline, I would definitely lunge him and time when he begins to act out.
I would also show this to the Pssm facebook page and see if anyone there has seen a horse with Pssm present with those specific symptoms. It certainly is unusual.
You don’t normally think of pain being a symptom of EPM. If they have not x rayed his neck and cervical spine I would probably do that as well. I know someone’s young horse just had to be put down to c6-c7 malformation causing wobblers. Again, it doesn’t really look like wobblers. It looks like he is hurting somewhere.
If you cannot afford further diagnostics, he may need to be retired. I’m not certain you can find an answer for this without spending a ton of money, and even if you find a cause it may not be treatable.
He seems normal in the pasture. I was watching him play with his buddy out there yesterday. His buddy kept nipping at him and Jasper finally tried to kick him. They go back and forth nagging and playing with each other like two brothers. Seems to move find out there.
Prior to the rider getting on Jasper, I just walked him around for a bit. I haven’t worked him very much at all. Most of the ground work I do is working to get him to focus on me. His mind is always someplace else, so I work a lot at trying to let him know that being with me is safe and OK. I don’ t think previous experiences with humans have necessarily been positive. He really is cautious when it comes to people.
EDIT: Normal is probably not the right word. I have not seen the thrusting, squirting behavior in the pasture. He does willingly trot and canter out there. It does at times look to me like he is a little stiff and he isn’t moving from behind. He isn’t supple and rounded. But if you saw him moving out there, you wouldn’t think he was lame. You might think he needed some training, which is what I thought. About 2 weeks after I got him, I started riding 4x a week, then 5-6 days a week. And when I say riding, about a hour at a time and nothing heavy. I am not a super forward rider. But it was probably mentally taxing to walk and trot and do circles, etc. He wasn’t ridden much by the last owner who had him about 9 months. Prior to that he was at a sale barn for about 4 months. I contact them to get some background and they said he wasn’t an easy sell because he needed an advanced rider and he could be sensitive.
Hope that gives a clearer picture.
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If you zoom in, his sheath area is twitching the moment he’s led up to the mounting block, and he stands with one leg under himself and stiff as he anticipates the rider mounting.
I wish there was footage straight on from behind walking in a straight line towards the camera and straight away and then the same thing at the trot. Even better would be to take him to a sandy area and sweep the sand totally clear and do that and then look at the footfall marks. I’m curious if he’s tightrope weaving. I feel like a see a little in this video but he’s so all over the place (not the rider’s fault) that it’s hard to tell if it’s an evasion or actually the way he’s moving.
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While watching the videos, I was thinking the same thing: how does he behave if you work him on the lunge line or in the round pen? I mean really work him at trot and canter?
Agree with this. If I only saw the portions of the video where he was refusing to go forward, kicking out, and falling in to the right, it looks like an assortment of evasions. Like he’s learned how to get out of work.
However… When viewing the entire video, it’s apparent that as soon as the gal mounts, his penis drops and becomes erect, and his tail juts out behind him. He looks like he’s reacting to pain as soon as she sits in the saddle. When combined with all the other symptoms, it seems like his evasive behaviors are reactions to pain, probably somewhere along his spine.
I’ve seen your sale videos of him and he didn’t behave like this. And I saw you riding him, and though he did his squat and ejaculate/pee thing, he still moved forward and wasn’t so ornery. So it seems like his behavior under saddle is getting worse, which may mean a progression of his issue and increased pain levels.
If he were mine, I wouldn’t ride him until I’d started a reasonable treatment plan and saw improvement. I know that’s difficult because you don’t have a definitive diagnosis. You’re in a
real dilemma. The only thing else I can do is send you a ((( hug ))) and wish you luck!
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This may have already been covered as I haven’t followed the entire thread, but have you tried him bareback to eliminate saddle pain? Or else lungeing him with no saddle? Weight on his back could be causing or exacerbating the issue.
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I wouldn’t be riding him. If it isn’t possible to invest in diagnostics to find out what is wrong, I think he should be retired from under saddle work.
I know you care about him. He’s obviously trying to be good and its not fair to ride him when he presents such odd symptoms. Something is causing him discomfort and he will only get more and more confused and evasive if you keep riding him.
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That has been addressed. It is not the saddle. The horse has symptoms that are obviously not caused by poor saddle fit.
It is a very unusual presentation, it is worth reading the thread before making suggestions. 
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I will repeat my comment that I just don’t see horses with EPM presenting with pain symptoms.
Would you try a medication trial to manage pain and see what he does? That could be as simple as bute, previcox, or steroids. Over the period of a few weeks, you will learn if his behavior changes when pain is managed. This is not expensive and will give you some clearer ideas about whether it is neurologic or pain related.
Other than potential impact on his stomach, I just don’t see where using bute/previcox would be any sort of diagnostic problem or challenge.
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To be clear I am convinced this horse has a physical problem and is in pain or serious discomfort (I continue to think it’s in some way spine) so I don’t think any of this is pure evasion. It’s just hard to tell in that video if there are pure gait abnormalities or if those weird ways he’s moving are evasions from pain/discomfort.
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I’m going to say something, and I’m not trying to be mean but there’s not a very good way to put it.
Jasper is built like crap for a riding horse. His neck is wonky, set on low, and the muscling indicates he’s spent his whole life ridden in a “jammed up” frame (and, he constantly puts his head HIGH up, like that’s where he thinks he should be). He has the “put together by committee” look, and doesn’t move in a very united sort of way.
I’m not saying this just to say it. That “jammed up frame” corresponds to a hollow back, which could have exacerbated whatever is going on with him, spine related.
Understanding the fellow is in pain, I’d be interested in someone actually sending him forward (at the walk, no faster) with some kind of conviction, and see what he give you whether it be kicking out or more sideways evasion. He’s meandering around without any march - it’s hard to see lameness or anything else without a decent amount of forward.
It’s tough with this guy, you don’t want to hurt him more but you need to SEE what’s going on and three steps forward-ish then 2 minutes of evasion makes it difficult to troubleshoot.
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I disagree with the other posters this is behavioral or due to his training or that he’s “evading”. I think he feels unsafe to move with the weight of a rider and is telling you that. His back end is not working correctly and I would not ride him.
It looks to me like the problem is in the spine in the lumbrosacral region as your vet has suggested. He is very sensitive to every movement of the rider and is clearly having muscle spasms behind from the moment she gets on. If he were mine I would go ahead and do the $300 EPM treatment. It will not make a spinal issue worse and if it works, then hurray. If it does not work I would xray that area at minimum but better to ultrasound if your vet can do the back. If no problem seen, then spinal tap I suppose or discuss with the vet the prognosis for what is now maybee most likely a tumor/ spinal lesion.
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