I agree. It certainly won’t hurt, and may help
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Wow, good eye. Thank you for viewing the video. I can clear up the sand in the arena and walk him around to see what the pattern looks like. I am very hesitant to get on again because it is causing him discomfort/pain.
Do you know if he could have slipped and perhaps fallen or twisted his back somehow? If it is nerve pain in his back, I wonder if gabapentin would be a better idea than bute or Previcox. Can he do belly lifts?
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Thank you for looking and sharing your thoughts.
I will say, when I first got him, he seemed to be a master at evading. He would stop at every gate in the arena. He would randomly turn and go in another direction, he wouldn’t move forward. At least that is what a trainer and others at the barn thought he was doing. But when it continued, and he would randomly spook at a line in the sand, or a pole that he had gone over the previous day just fine, I became concerned that there was something physically and emotionally wrong.
I am definitely leaning toward the EPM treatment. The compounded version that is less expensive. It seems like it would be worth the investment and if it helps that would be amazing.
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I do not believe he has fallen since I have had him. But I will say, he is lower in the herd and initially got pushed around a lot. It’s been awhile since I scratched his belly to get him to lift, so I will need to try that. Good thought.
He has never come in lame.
I was going through his paperwork and did find another previous owner so I contacted him. He is a roper. He said he had him as a colt and never did much with him. The paperwork dates Jasper as 8 at the time. So unless he had him for several years, he wasn’t a colt. Or maybe he was remembering a different horse. Either way, he was owned by a roper and perhaps was roped off of. Not sure if there was a previous injury?
The chiropractor who saw him said his pelvis was tipped on one side, so it makes sense to think there is something going on in the back end causing pain.
And the million $ question is - is that a symptom or a (contributing) cause? Ugh.
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Question, doesn’t bute potentially cause kidney issues if used for more than a few days?
Potentially, yes. It’s not that common though, not with short-term use. There are lots and lots of horses on 1/2-1gm bute daily for years, without issues. It’s generally a good idea for horses on bute longer-term to have some blood work done to just check in, and it isn’t a good idea to give it to horses with existing kidney issues, or to one who is dehydrated
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Thanks for sharing. I don’t consider your comment mean at all. You are right, he neck if wonky. Previous owners may have used a tie down on him.
And I agree he doesn’t move in a united sort of way.
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. To be clear, he isn’t being ridden regularly. Prior to this video, the last time I got on him was in May (first video I shared) and prior to that, I think it was early February. I don’t want to give the impression that I am on him all the time because that is not the case. I was hesitant to even let this person get on him for fear of him or her getting hurt. But I felt I needed more information. She tried to be gentle and not push too much but she moved him forward more than I has been willing to push for.
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- Don’t ride or work him at all.
- Consult with your vet about scoping for ulcers and getting ulcer meds if needed.
A horse in this much pain probably has ulcers. - Find an orthopedic specialist.
It looks like left hip/ pelvis to me.
Or an injury to right hip and the left hip has compensation issues.
Neck/back pain could be secondary result of hind end issues.
I wouldn’t medicate for pain or treat the horse for EPM unless your vet thinks it necessary.
That is just me, though.
I hope this helps you, and I hope you find an answer .
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I actually think in hand walk/jog would be better. Straight line to and from the camera.
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Everything is a risk-reward calculation, and in this case, if it helps him feel better, I would not expect that a bute trial would be too risky, compared to the level of pain he might be in now. Pain will cause its own problems, including ulcers. And, fwiw, I’ve known horses on bute for years without complications.
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And to be clear myself, I agree with you! 
I think that horses in pain, since they can’t verbally express their pain, often exhibit evasive behaviors in an attempt to get their message across. “It hurts when I work, so therefore I don’t want to work anymore.”
Jasper’s bizarre physical symptoms seem to coincide with worsening behavior under saddle. Until the pain is addressed and relieved, I wouldn’t expect his behavior to improve. Which is another reason not to ride him until he gets into a treatment protocol.
A bute trial might reveal some information.
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I watched a couple of the new videos. Have you done imaging of the back or pelvis? I think I’d take an ultrasound of anything you can see, including rectal ultrasound of the LS disc. It is possible something is there you can’t image, though. In the beginning, it looked a little more neuro with the penis behavior and the rope walking and such behind. But then as he tried to comply, the tail posture really stuck out since he wasn’t dropped at that time. I think he’s got something for sure going on in the lumbo-sacral area. So, my current thought is some kind of injury that is also pissing off/compromising some nerves. Since rider weight makes a difference, might as well ultrasound him from poll to tail. Not as expensive as it sounds—btdt. Because he’s a thicker built horse, you won’t be able to xray much in the lumbar area anyway most likely, and I’d want to try to see the inter-transverse joints etc as well which need the dorsal view of ultrasound.
I also understand that the rider is part of his neck posture issue as she didn’t want to get bucked off ;).
I agree it would be nice to see him moving in hand some to compare. It is possible it’s something like EPM or another neuromuscular disease and he just can’t compensate for those deficits with the weight of a rider. But latest video changes my mind a little compared to first video.
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Hi
I have read through this but can’t recall, has Jasper had a diagnostic pelvic ultrasound?
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I am going through something similar with my youngster right now (minus the erection issue, though he does drop a lot when just hanging around). Right now, balking and refusing to move…and it’s clearly a pain issue, not a training thing. I can share what we’ve done and what we are doing next in case it helps.
We did go to NBC and saw sports med and neuro (Dr. Johnson) back in June. We xrayed back - no kissing spines. Ruled out Lyme. My guy has some mild ataxia and some very slight changes on neck xray at C5/6/7. So we injected the neck. We also scoped for ulcers…grade 3. Those are treated and now gone, and trying to ride again resulted in the same issues.
We are back up to NBC in 2 weeks for more diagnostics…I am convinced it is deeper spine (soft tissue) or pelvis/SI. My guy is also mostly triggered by the weight of a rider. So one thing you can try is lunging to see if he is better…then add a weighted surcingle to see if the added weight (without putting a rider in danger) makes a difference.
We are doing a bone scan in hopes it will show something…and probably an ultrasound of the SI/pelvis/spine. I will say now that we fully treated the ulcers, my guy is back to his relaxed and chill self in general (as long as no rider on him)…and I had been doing ulcer treatments for a month before we scoped and found the ulcers. As my vet said, keep looking for the pain issue…there is a reason your horse has ulcers and it’s not from your management (he would totally be on the low/no risk for ulcers based on feeding/turnout).
So you might be dealing with a layering of issues…the primary issue which then causes several secondary issues. It’s hard to separate them out…sometimes you thing you are treating the main issue, but you really aren’t (even though it is an issue that may have needed treating anyway).
Good luck…I absolutely understand the frustration you are going through right now.
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I’ve been following this from the beginning, and regardless of whether the saddle fit has been proven to be fine, my initial reaction to the most recent videos is that there is something about the way the weight of the rider is being distributed that is making him terribly uncomfortable.
OP, I agree w vxf111 that this horse is in pain, whether it’s spinal or something in the sacrum/pelvis area. I also recently went through the “I’ve never seen anything like this in my 20 year career as a university vet professor” situation so I feel your frustration with being the edge case.
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This was in the OP:
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No, he has not. He has had multiple internal ultrasounds to look at his bladder.
