Neurological, Kissing Spines, and Owner Burnout

[Baysn_Blondes]

I have an 11 year old OTTB gelding who was diagnosed with KS last year. After spending 11 months rehabing without any real progress began showing signs that he was struggling to control his hind end. While my vet and barn owner continued to tell me these were KS symptoms, I got a second opinion from a different vet who diagnosed him as neurological. His symptoms are not severe at the moment, they are enough that the vet warned me that he is a fall risk.

I’m currently waiting on results of his EPM test (I am in Colorado, but he was born/raced in Louisiana and came out of a Texas feedlot in 2019). If that comes back negative the vet thinks we need to look at potential spinal compression.

Unfortunately, I’m on a budget and I’m getting closer to that limit after multiple vet visits, X-rays, shockwave, and new saddles. Additionally, I moved to a different barn so I could dedicate more time to his rehab and have better facilities, but it is also at the high end of my budget, especially for a horse that is going through $300 of grain and supplements each month just to maintain his weight.

I am burnt out. I love this horse, he’s talented and beautiful and the kind of horse I never thought I’d be able to afford, but it feels like every time I turn around we’re taking 10 steps backwards and none forwards. Selfishly, I want to be able to ride my horse. I bought him to improve myself as a rider and challenge myself to see what level I could train a horse to. Instead I haven’t really ridden in 14 months, aside from him having the occasional good day.

Everyone keeps saying the worst thing I can do for a horse with KS is to put them in a pasture, but we can’t even address that until we diagnose and hopefully resolve/manage the neurological issues, so would it be wrong of me to let him hang out in a pasture with a few friends and just be a horse for the next 6-9 months? Obviously if it’s EPM we will treat that, but if that comes back negative my plan would be to do another neuro exam in 6-9 months and reassess where he’s at then.

Putting him in pasture would give me the change to rebuild my vet bills account (pasture board is much cheaper here), it would allow me to lease a horse and rebuild my riding muscles before getting back on a horse that’s going to need me to ride at my absolute best, and it would give me some space from the burn out (and to be honest, disappointment). The pasture is close by and would allow me to come out and groom him and check in him several times a week (he’s in a stall with a run right now so I currently go out every day to check on him). I just don’t want to do him a disservice or limit his potential recovery for my own selfish reasons.

Is it unreasonable to let a horse with medical issues be a pasture puff and reassess at a later date, or is there a chance it will do him some good (or at least do him no harm)?

If any armchair vets are interested, I’m happy to share his X-rays, conformation pics, videos, and the ridiculously long list of symptoms.

[omare]

You sound like a saint to me. I am not familiar with those issues and how they would be aggravated by turnout, however all I could think of the difficulty and possible danger of managing such a horse in close quarters or a barn. It can be scary being in a stall with an unstable horse. I wonder (no doubt in ignorance) might turnout actually be a safer alternative for all?

[2DogsFarm]

@Baysn_Blondes

Everyone keeps saying the worst thing I can do for a horse with KS is to put them in a pasture,

???
Ask your vet, not “everyone” (unless vet is included in that advice).
I don’t have personal experience,but a friend did just that with his KS horse.
Retired him to pasture board.
This was a younger horse - not yet 10 when literally put out to pasture.
That was nearly 3yrs ago.
AFAIK, horse is doing fine in retirement.
Friend has a new young horse he’s brought along & is having a great season.

You’ve gone above & beyond.
Both of you deserve a break.
Horse can (hopefully) heal, even if never rideable.
You can regroup financially & get back riding.
& For you both.

[vxf111]

If he’s neurological that sounds like more than just kissing spines and might not be something you can’t fix. I don’t think there would be any shame in retiring (or euthanizing) a neurological horse. No shame at all.

[Syrynx]

I echo what 2DogsFarm has said. I have a big, beautiful 11 year old OTTB mare with fairly significant KS. I tossed her in a pasture with my other 2 retirees and she is just fine.

Vet said movement is good.

That being said, she didn’t show the same signs in her hind end that your boy did. But when asked to canter under saddle she protested strongly which is what led her then owner to dig deeper. I had sold her and once determined she could be a light riding (maybe) pasture pet, they asked if I could take her back. I am extremely fortunate to be able to do that.

[greywithchrome]

I have a horse with KS, it’s been a JOURNEY. You said 11 months of rehab work didn’t make anything better, and I personally don’t think that putting him in a pasture for some time will make things worse. It’s possible that the pasture time will allow his muscles to relax making another shot at rehab more successful. That is, if he is in a good place at that time to start work again, and that there are not neurological issues at play.

[OzarksRider]

One of my horses has kissing spine, and he’s a pasture puff and buddy for my riding horse. I adopted him from the Humane Society knowing that he had this, and it’s never been a problem. He’s perfectly comfortable and loves living the sweet life. If your horse is comfortable, putting him out to pasture shouldn’t hurt and it might even help. Of course, be sure to discuss this with your vet.

Also, good on you for trying so hard for this horse.

[beowulf]

OP, firstly, big hugs. I’ve been down that road, I feel your burnout, and I’m sending lots of jingles.

Secondly - the VERY best thing you can do for a KS horse is put him on pasture. I am so confused by that statement. Are they referring to a KS horse that got surgery? If so I can understand the reservation, but otherwise no. I have two KS horses and the worst thing you could do for them physiologically is put them in a stall.

Now, ‘throwing them out’ to pasture doesn’t mean leave them untreated or neglect them or stop doing their feet/teeth/etc. Not that I think you are doing that, it’s just the general idea when people say that kind of thing. My KS horse that is still ridden gets mesotherapy yearly. He is on MSM and high doses of Vit E. That’s the extent of his management besides staying on top of his feet which will make his back hurt worse if they’re out of balance. As far as horses go this is pretty affordable maintenance.

I don’t want to do a deep dive into a lecture about management for KS on a thread that didn’t necessarily ask for that kind of advice, but I am happy to share what has worked for me.

I hope you can get to the bottom of the neurological issues.

[Baysn_Blondes]

A better way to phrase it would probably be everyone who is looking at him with the intent that he might someday be a riding horse again. I have not discussed it much with this vet, I’m waiting to see the EPM results before setting up a long term care plan with her.

[Tee]

Just to share, my very, very mild KS horse (so mild the vet didn’t think that was the issue) had some fairly significant hind end issues when riding. He was fine on his own, but any type of lateral or bending work would throw him off to the point I would consider bailing off. It took some tries, but I finally figured out how NOT to create that. It was pretty much his only KS symptom. His back always palpated great, and regular chiro visits, all good. The typical KS rehab work all but crippled him. After his 3rd injection (2 worked, the 3rd didn’t) I opted for surgery. He was 10 then, 15 now, and doing great.

[fivestrideline]

Echoing above - if KS turns out to be his only issue (neuro being related to EPM or symptoms are all tied to the KS), 24/7 turnout is THE BEST thing you can do for him if you want him to be in any way rideable. Keeps them moving, loose, and helps stretch his back out.
If the neuro issue turns out to be “mystery” non-EPM related, tossing him out somewhere you can keep an eye on him for worsening symptoms and re-evaluate in a few months is 100% a great option. Won’t hurt, might help.

I’m in the burnout boat with my KS horse, but have found other ways to get back in the saddle which is helping. Definitely see if you can find a way to move him somewhere safe and pick up a lease or even lessons and let him chill.

[Akogler]

Fall risk is different than KS risk…I had had neuro horses and myelogram always showed spinal compression. Turning them out was not a safe option for them or for people. I had to put them down (two over several years)

Good luck, youre a good mum. If it really is “just” kissing spines, turnout would be great.

[J-Lu]

I’m so sorry you are doing this but you sure are doing right by this horse!

My good friend purchased a horse who ended up with KS. Signs were that the horse started going with her head in the air, offered bucks when mounted, and was not happy being ridden. She thought the horse might have been drugged when she did the test ride. Anyway, her vet said that it was severe enough that the horse would likely get worse and not be rideable in the future. She has $$$ to spend on serious diagnostics (and she does) and ended up putting the horse down. Her horses spend most of the day at pasture and come into the barn at night. I think they had this horse out with a donkey at night because of the KS - horse didn’t have to lift it’s head to look at other animals in stalls. If it is treatable, great! But if it’s not and might get worse, there’s no shame in considering euthanasia before your horse starts to hurt.

If your horse has neurological issues and and is a fall risk, unless you get a firm diagnosis and treatment regime for a condition consistent with “fall risk”, please consider putting the horse down. I once knew a horse who developed neurological issues and was a fall risk. The horse ended up breaking it’s hip when it fell when turned out and had to be euthanized.

Your vets will be the best source of information on what to do with your horse. They have the full medical history and results and are veterinarians. Ask THEM if your horse is best turned out or in a stall based on what they found. You can ask each vet what they would do if it happened to be what the other vet said (you don’t have to mention the other vet, say an online BB thought it was what the other vet said!)

I know you feel incredibly frustrated and I’m so sorry. It’s so frustrating when you really want an answer and get different opinions from different vets and both could be plausible. And in my life of having horses, I so understand the financial constraints. SOOOO get-it.

[Baysn_Blondes]

So, got good/bad news this afternoon. His titters for EPM came back at 320 for S. Neurona, so the vet is pretty confident that epm is the cause and is going to get me my treatment options early next week.

I did talk with her about turning him out until next spring/summer and she felt like that was the best possible option for him, so that’s a definite relief. I got some more clarification on him being a fall risk too. It’s more about being aware when I’m picking his feet and making sure I’m not standing bin a place where he could pin me agains a wall if he fell, rather than being concerned that he’s going to fall walking around pasture.

As for my first vet and barn owners saying he shouldn’t be in turnout, I reread through our conversations and they are concerned about him losing top line if he’s not in work and doing exercises to build his top line muscling. My thoughts are that in pasture he can build his muscling (which has definitely atrophied) in a really natural way. He’s a social horse so he’ll walk around, and go up and down the small hills, and have access to 24/7 hay versus me coming to work him 20-30 minutes, 5 days a week.

[IPEsq]

You may have to do some rehabbing after a period of being out in the field and no riding with a KS horse if he is indeed symptomatic from the KS part of the problem, but it sounds like a really good option for the both of you for a while to turn him out. (And treat the EPM of course)

[cyanskies]

This isn’t exactly what you asked, but having dealt with an EPM horse myself who was unrideable and then had to be euthanized, along with a lot of other horsey stuff over the years…

I very strongly believe that people who are primarily interested in RIDING are usually much better off leasing a riding horse, or taking a lot of lessons with a trainer, than owning their own horse (unless you can swing having multiple riding horses). Leasing/lessons remove a lot of the variability in both time and budget. If the horse doesn’t work out, you can get out of a lease.

The biggest impediment to my riding progress has, by far, been owning the damn horses! I’m perfectly happy with that, though, because I get immense satisfaction from puttering around and taking care of them. I like riding, but it’s been a considerable amount of time since there’s been a combination of both healthy horse and healthy rider in this household. It’s not my main focus.

Just my two cents. When I went through a period of boarding 2 unsound horses before my EPM gelding was PTS, I very seriously considered going the “own nothing” route. I would certainly be less poor and be a better rider if I had.

[OzarksRider]

@Baysn_Blondes

As for my first vet and barn owners saying he shouldn’t be in turnout, I reread through our conversations and they are concerned about him losing top line if he’s not in work and doing exercises to build his top line muscling.

One of the symptoms of EPM is muscle wasting and loss of topline, so if your horse loses topline it’s not totally due to lack of exercise. The EPM diagnosis is good news in that now you at least know what’s going on and can treat it, and hopefully your horse will respond well to the treatment. If he recovers from the EPM, the kissing spine may turn out to be incidental. What I mean is, some horses can show KS on x-ray but show only minor or even no symptoms. Only time will tell whether your horse’s symptoms are caused entirely by EPM or a combination of EPM and KS.

I hope your horse will do well with the treatment. You’ve been with him 100%, and I admire you for that.

[candyappy]

@Baysn_Blondes

I am burnt out. I love this horse, he’s talented and beautiful and the kind of horse I never thought I’d be able to afford, but it feels like every time I turn around we’re taking 10 steps backwards and none forwards. Selfishly, I want to be able to ride my horse. I bought him to improve myself as a rider and challenge myself to see what level I could train a horse to. Instead I haven’t really ridden in 14 months, aside from him having the occasional good day.

It isn’t selfish to want to ride the horse you own.

@Baysn_Blondes

Putting him in pasture would give me the change to rebuild my vet bills account (pasture board is much cheaper here), it would allow me to lease a horse and rebuild my riding muscles before getting back on a horse that’s going to need me to ride at my absolute best, and it would give me some space from the burn out (and to be honest, disappointment). The pasture is close by and would allow me to come out and groom him and check in him several times a week (he’s in a stall with a run right now so I currently go out every day to check on him). I just don’t want to do him a disservice or limit his potential recovery for my own selfish reasons.

This isn’t selfish either and so far it doesn’t look like he is responding well to any other forms of treatment you have tried. Sometimes things can turn around when we just let a horse be a horse. It is no guarantee but I would give it a try and it will be beneficial to you and probably him.

[Baysn_Blondes]

Got some great news today! My friend said she can take my gelding in her pasture and is going to let me take one of her horses as a lease. It’s a win-win for both of us; my gelding can heal and reset in an almost no stress environment and her horses can get back in shape and get some exposure and training. I had already been feeling less burnt out between getting a diagnosis and cutting back from going to the barn every day, but this definitely feels like a weight is being lifted.

As for my boy, the vet offered me the option of ponazuril or rebalance to treat his epm. Because he can be a bit difficult to medicate I decided to go with the ponazuril, even at the risk of needing to retreat. Hopefully that will come in next week and we can start treatment soon.

[vxf111]

Sounds good!