New Changes to Hanoverian Breeding Policies; A sign of the times?

[siegi_b]

I tend to agree with most of what DownYonder stated in her last post… Looking at the situation from a pure business perspective, I am not surprised that Hanover is looking for ways to expand/preserve their registry. The Dutch have been doing it for years and it doesn’t seem to have hurt them one bit. The Dutch also have probably the strictest testing for their stallions that includes intensive radiographs, semen analysis, evaluation of several foal crops, continued participation in the sport, etc., all of which gets published for everybody to read. Stallion can actually lose their license if they don’t continually produce good offspring or don’t compete. So given such stringent requirements, I don’t think it would be a bad idea for other registries to consider the occasional Dutch stallion in order to introduce different blood.

I am sure the same applies to other registries - I just feel more comfortable talking about the KWPN since that is my registry of choice.

In the current economic climate I think it’s safe to say that all horse registries are looking for ways to increase revenue through sales and additional memberships. Opening up the registry to outside stallions is just one of the venues that seems to show some promise based on what has been demonstrated by the KWPN, for example.

[eurofoal]

I think that the quality of the foals has increased so much in the past 10 or so years, that the 50% rule served its purpose-- to consolidate the bloodline while modernizing the old heavy style. Now we HAVE light riding horses with extravagant movement.

Although I don’t doubt the money plays a factor, the reality is that loosing good foals/mares/breeders to other registries who are evaluating and approving the the very SAME horses is bad business. It didn’t matter for the geldings who would only ever be riding horses. But many breeders didn’t hold the Hannoverians in such high esteem as to get Pre-Stud book 28 papers for a good quality filly foal that would very likely produce a foal of her own at some point or other. That F-2 mare had two generations to go before her offspring would be in the Main Stud (mare) Book.

As a US based breeder, I started with TB’s and love TB’s, like we all did… many of my best horses had lots of “blood” – Of course I wanted to give the fillies the best chance possible for a career as broodmare. So many of my Hannoverians were registered Oldenburg Verband or elsewhere. Surely over years that has cost the Hannoverians

[rodawn]

[QUOTE=feather river;6735258]
I think you are projecting to much of your own personal views onto this. [/QUOTE]

that’s kinda the point. This is a forum to express one’s opinions and views. I’m a 3rd generation breeder and have seen the results of making a registry too open when the openness was not mitigated with some rules. I’m not a board member as I’m not in Germany, have little to no sway. It’s just my opinion, but I happen to know that my opinion is shared by a quite a few that I have personally spoken with around here.

[Kareen]

Well the top-stallion option applies only to those stallions who are WBFSH-ranked (according to Ludwig Christmann per last week) some of which are obviously approved already so we’re talking about a very small group of stallions there to enter the Hanoverian breeding program without licensing process.
This particular rule I think should pass without problem. It is bound to cause little to no damage (if any at all) because there are plain and simple only a few dozens of breedings going to result from it and those are breedings which would probably have been done anyway except the resulting foals would have had to be registered with other Verbands (at best) or else the respective breeders would have left the Verband altogether which obviously is in nobody’s interest at the Hanoverian Verband.

I too am curious as to what decisions the coming weeks will bring.

[Donella]

I agree with Siegi on this one. The Hannoverian is a breed, but it is not a pure or closed breed. The purpose first and foremost is to create the best performance horse possible…that should overshadow all else. Allowing breeders the options of using top, top stallions should help the breeders to attain this goal. They are not going to throw open the doors to all people to breed whatever they want…they still have a very strict mare approval process which ensures that only mares that meet their breeding goals are accepted.

I think this is a smart move. They can either lose excellent mares from other breeds that would in theory help the registry to attain it’s goal of producing a top sport horse, or they can open their doors for top stallions. Keep in mind that up until a few years ago stallions like Jazz (#1 sire in the world) and Quattro B ect were not even approved by Hanover. I think that is ridiculous.

[Fairview_Horse_Cente]

I moved away from the Hanoverian registry, as I wanted to make the best crosses for my mares. I felt the best cross for my Hanoverian mare was a Dutch stallion, and the best cross for my Dutch mare was a Hanoverian stallion. The resulting crosses were Dutch and Westfalen registered.

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Kareen;6742492]
Well the top-stallion option applies only to those stallions who are WBFSH-ranked (according to Ludwig Christmann per last week) some of which are obviously approved already so we’re talking about a very small group of stallions there to enter the Hanoverian breeding program without licensing process.[/QUOTE]

It’s a slow day at the office, so just for fun, I went through the list of top WBFSH sires to see which stallions from the WBFSH top sires list do not have 50% Hanoverian blood.

I was a bit surprised to find that, of the 30 stallions listed on the dressage, jumping, and eventing top sires lists, only ONE has 50% Hanoverian blood, and that is De Niro (who is registered Hanoverian, so the blood rule doesn’t apply to him).

So this new rule could be a very good thing for the Hanoverians, as it will allow more access to the top producing stallions, and it won’t drive breeders to other registries if they want to use one of these top producing stallions for their non-Hanoverian mares that have less than 50% Hanoverian blood.

Sire Rankings2.pdf (51.6 KB)

[Bent_Hickory]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;6744656]
It’s a slow day at the office, so just for fun, I went through the list of top WBFSH sires to see which stallions from the WBFSH top sires list do not have 50% Hanoverian blood.

I was a bit surprised to find that, of the 30 stallions listed on the dressage, jumping, and eventing top sires lists, only ONE has 50% Hanoverian blood, and that is De Niro (who is registered Hanoverian, so the blood rule doesn’t apply to him).

So this new rule could be a very good thing for the Hanoverians, as it will allow more access to the top producing stallions.[/QUOTE]

Nevermind…

[Bent_Hickory]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;6744656]
So this new rule could be a very good thing for the Hanoverians, as it will allow more access to the top producing stallions, and it won’t drive breeders to other registries if they want to use one of these top producing stallions for their Hanoverian mares that have less than 50% Hanoverian blood.[/QUOTE]

If the breeder is using a “Hanoverian mare,” it doesn’t matter how much blood she has or how much blood the stallion has!!! Please people, the 50% rule ONLY, ONLY, ONLY comes into play for NON-HANOVERIAN MARES!!!

[DownYonder]

[QUOTE=Bent Hickory;6744812]
If the breeder is using a “Hanoverian mare,” it doesn’t matter how much blood she has or how much blood the stallion has!!! Please people, the 50% rule ONLY, ONLY, ONLY comes into play for NON-HANOVERIAN MARES!!![/QUOTE]

Ah, thank you - I had meant to say “non-Hanoverian” mares! I will edit my post above.

[feather_river]

[QUOTE=rodawn;6742268]
that’s kinda the point. This is a forum to express one’s opinions and views. I’m a 3rd generation breeder and have seen the results of making a registry too open when the openness was not mitigated with some rules. I’m not a board member as I’m not in Germany, have little to no sway. It’s just my opinion, but I happen to know that my opinion is shared by a quite a few that I have personally spoken with around here.[/QUOTE]

so, then I will presume you have sent letters to both the Am Han Society board and to the German Han Verband board with your views and the mitigation rules you would propose.

[feather_river]

[QUOTE=DownYonder;6738811]
Ah, but the mare was Hanoverian. The 50% blood rule doesn’t apply to her. And I doubt they would give a breeding allowance to just “any old stallion.”

As I said earlier - I suspect the Verband is seeking to extend its reach. The intent of this new rule is to lure away breeders from Oldenburg, Westphalia, Rhineland, Brandenburg, Mecklenburg, etc., who may be located on the cusp of the Hanoverian breeding area, and are using mares with less than 50% Hanoverian blood. Now they can use any Hanoverian-approved stallion for those mares, regardless of whether he meets the blood rule, and register the foals as Hanoverian. So now stallions like Jazz, Totilas, Sandro Hit, Fidertanz, Quaterback, Balou du Rouet, and myriad other good KWPN, Holsteiner, Trakehner, etc., stallions can be used, and those breeders will be brought into the Hanoverian fold. Eventually, the smaller Verbands that are struggling to survive will be absorbed into the Hanoverian Verband, just as Hesse was.[/QUOTE]

of course it is about extending their reach–call it staying competitive as a breed registry in harder economic times–they are breeding about 30% less foals in Europe right now, and sales of normal horses are harder now. So keeping the breed competitive helps the breeders–or else they go elsewhere.

[rodawn]

Modifications approved!

Hanoverian Verband Delegates Conference approves modifications of studbook regulations

Verden. The planned modifications of the studbook regulations were presented by Breeding Manager Dr. Werner Schade on the occasion of the Delegates Conference of the Hannoveraner Verband and were finally approved by the Board. Three new rules will become valid for the Hanoverian breed that will grant breeders more autonomy and self-responsibility.

These are the new stipulations:
International Top Stallions
“International top sport is given more and more attention, and today, worldwide successful top stallions manage to combine success in sport and breeding alike,” Dr. Werner Schade explained. “Our breeders focus on international top sport, and therefore, it is our aim to facilitate the approval of top stallions for the Hanoverian breed.” The Hannoveraner Verband will now accept the licensing results of other breed societies, provided the stallions have an appropriate hereditary background and provided they are registered in the stallion book, category I, of an approved riding horse population, including appropriate proof of performance. Registration criteria will be the world rankings of the World Breeding Federation for Sport Horses (WBFSH).

Early Availability
Stallions from other breed societies are now also allowed to be presented for the Stallion Licensing after having completed a 30-day performance test only. The qualification for the Final of the Federal Championships at the age of three is no longer required. “Breeders are now able to choose stallions from other breed societies considerably earlier,” Dr. Werner Schade said. A qualification for the Federal Championships at the age of five shall be required for the final entry in the stallion book, category I, as is already requested for Hanoverian stallions.

Wider Breeding Spectrum
The last amendment of the constitution is the cancellation of the so-called 50%-rule. This means that all mares registered with the Hannoveraner Verband can be bred to all registered stallions and the consequent foals shall carry the Hanoverian brand. This would help new Hanoverian breeders start their breeding business. “82% of the mares registered with the Hannoveraner Verband carry the Hanoverian brand, only 2% are mares from other breed societies,” Dr. Werner Schade summarized. “It is our aim to more and more strengthen the Hanoverian blood as it stands for high performance and quality. However, we also want our breeders to act independently and to decide themselves. Our selection criteria will remain unchanged, because the quality of the horses is decisive for successful sales and success in sports.”

[dianehalpin]

Well, okay then. For jumping, I’m probably happy about rule change #1 if used with intelligence. As breeders, we are encouraged to act independently so that we can all decide how to use these new rules.

I’d love some of the AHS board members to weigh in on this.

Diane Halpin/Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: Facebook

[3Dogs]

These are the new stipulations:
International Top Stallions
“International top sport is given more and more attention, and today, worldwide successful top stallions manage to combine success in sport and breeding alike,” Dr. Werner Schade explained. “Our breeders focus on international top sport, and therefore, it is our aim to facilitate the approval of top stallions for the Hanoverian breed.” The Hannoveraner Verband will now accept the licensing results of other breed societies, provided the stallions have an appropriate hereditary background and provided they are registered in the stallion book, category I, of an approved riding horse population, including appropriate proof of performance. Registration criteria will be the world rankings of the World Breeding Federation for Sport Horses (WBFSH).

I for one am hopefull that the above will bring some jumping blood back into the Hanover book - as I believe they took the “jump” lines OUT some many years ago - but can any one actually define what the above means as to WHICH stallions - the last sentence doesn’t indicate to WHAT ranking would be acceptable assuming the criteria above that met - in fact, the whole qualification section is rather - shall I say - “vague”

[railmom]

As I understand it

From the WBFSH rankings; the top 100 jumping, the top 50 dressage and the top 25 eventing horses (if stallions of course) would be approved for Hanoverian breeding, [B]provided the stallions have an appropriate hereditary background and provided they are registered in the stallion book, category I, of an approved riding horse population, including appropriate proof of performance.. [/B] Also from the WBFSH leading sires list, stallions in the top 100 jumping, the top 100 dressage and top 50 eventing would also be eligible. Check with the Verband to make sure.

It seems to me, the most stallions this new rule will effect are jumpers.

There will be an additional fee to register these foals, since the stallion does not pay fees to the Verband.

[back_in_the_saddle]

IMO it’s a good change. I looked outside the registry more than a few times because I wasn’t totally happy with the Han stallion choices.

[feather_river]

[QUOTE=dianehalpin;6802497]
Well, okay then. For jumping, I’m probably happy about rule change #1 if used with intelligence. As breeders, we are encouraged to act independently so that we can all decide how to use these new rules.

I’d love some of the AHS board members to weigh in on this.

Diane Halpin/Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: Facebook[/QUOTE]

I did not read anywhere that the new rules requires us to act independently ‘with intelligence.’

[dianehalpin]

Ah Feather River -

“However, we also want our breeders to act independently and to decide themselves.” -Dr. Werner Schade

That sounds like encouragement to me and I just thought it would be smart to do that “intelligently”; however, feel free to be dependent or independent with or without intelligence.

Diane Halpin/Laurel Leaf Hanoverians: FaceBook

[back_in_the_saddle]

What I’ve never understood is why some stallions are approved for Han registry.

There are many nice nice stallions out there who (before this rule change) would have never gotten Han approval despite how nice their offspring are. Then you have one top winning stallion who has zero offspring get automatic Han approval. ??? THAT has never made much sense to me.

I like the idea of opening up the breed lines… but if I were king for a day, I would cherry pick the best producing stallions for approval.