New horse: For a Friend of a Friend

[2DogsFarm]

FOF is looking to retire her 20yo trail horse.
I’ve never met her, but friend gave me this List:
1 - She is a big woman - near 6" and close to 300#, so she wants at least 16h

2 - She is not a particularly strong rider, so something husband-horse like would probably do her fine
ETA: friend tells me on a scale of 1-10 she’d rate her 5

3 - She wants a gaited horse
ETA: would prefer TWH or MFT

4 - She is willing to drive up to 4h from homebase - NE Indiana - to look at a horse

5 - Budget under $4K

If anyone here knows of a possibility please post here or PM me
TIA

[GotMyPony]

Your friend might have to up her budget a little, I’m sorry to say. I was helping a friend hunt a big trail horse - she’s also 6’ tall. Experienced trail horses that big seemed to be hard to find in the first place since trailriders seem to like small-to-average size horses. She did find a great one but he was about double the money. That said, I wish her happy hunting… it may be different in your part of the country.

[2DogsFarm]

{shrugs}
I tend to agree with you.

And I think a 15.2 stoutly-built horse could work for her too.

But: not my purchase, just putting out feelers for FOF.

Seeing how many views and replies this thread has generated you are probably right on the money re: pricing too.

[IdahoRider]

I tried a wonderful TWH gelding a few months ago that would be perfect. I think he is still for sale, too. But he is here in Idaho, so outside her search zone.
Sheilah

[lilitiger2]

Well, here’s something in Indiana…not sure that he is “finished” as a trail horse but sounds pretty solid. And big enough to carry her. http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1795574

or a FINISHED trail guy in PA… wish I was back there this guy looks like a sweetheart! http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1795574

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1789083
probably is a deal at this price, cute!

But I like Merlin!!

[Twisted_River]

There are several on Dreamhorse that look like they could fit the bill. Just a few that came up: (all are under $3k!)

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1786889

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1805609

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1804009

http://www.dreamhorse.com/show_horse.php?form_horse_id=1803961

[brightskyfarm]

drafts and crosses

I get these requests and similar all the time (chuckling that it always sounds like McyD’s drive up!)…

First, I suspect she wants a walker thinking it will offer her a smoother ride. — has anyone queried this?

And… I hold a specific opinion on weight ratio vs horse size. There are several threads on this topic with good examples and advice for a heavier rider to consider a heavier built horse.

I always recommend a draft; belgian or a cross. This size is sweetly tempered, more than able to do ANYthing, Comfortable (cant even fall off these guys bareback!), are honestly easy keepers.
There are many draft rescues! that will help your FOF stay within a budget.
A quick seach offered these:
http://www.equinenow.com/draftindiana.htm

    Some examples:

At the track, there are several heavier riders who mount on belgians and crosses and these are working horses, escorting Tb’s (the other reason for riding them is they anchor the worst a tb can dish out!).
I showed jumpers against a gal riding a cross — I hunted with a field of nearly 50% crosses.
I finally convinced a student to purchase a draft, she got a perch/ for her 6’2/320lbs (and thats without tack!) husband who is returning to riding after spending 5 months laid off from work and a year rehabbing due to falling off a stocky qh. He admits feeling insync on this size.
Oh, John Wayne had to ride a small-ish appy in El Dorado, Zips Cochise – that he hated riding (loved the horse) but was just too small.

[2DogsFarm]

FOF’s current ride is a TWH and the folks she rides with most all ride gaited horses.

I’m told she needs something that can “gait out” to keep up with a group, but not so fast that she would have to lead a ride.

Otherwise I agree with you brightskyfarm, but don’t think she’ll go for that reasoning.

Twisted River & lilitiger, thanks for the DH listings - I’ll email them to my friend and hopefully they can find something to suit.

[lilitiger2]

[QUOTE=brightskyfarm;6434709]
And… I hold a specific opinion on weight ratio vs horse size. There are several threads on this topic with good examples and advice for a heavier rider to consider a heavier built horse.

I always recommend a draft; belgium or a cross. This size is sweetly tempered, more than able to do ANYthing, Comfortable (cant even fall off these guys bareback!), are honestly easy keepers.
.[/QUOTE]

Totally agree with this. A friend is going through this now, with a horse that has various joint problems largely due, what she says anyway, to being ridden by a rider much to heavy for it. Belgians, crosses and so forth are GREAT horses (a ranch where I used to work actually has a perch stud they breed to QH mares to get the size and build to tote guests around-gentle and reliable).

[Guilherme]

IMO most of the theories of “weight bearing ratios” are based upon prejudice and anthropomorphism vice science or practical experience. So we’ll not go there.

Draft horses were bred to pull, not carry. Just because they are of large size does not mean that their spine is better suited to the large rider than a well conformed saddle horse. Some of the European breeds, notably the Trakheners, were bred as heavy cavalry horses, designed to carry large riders (some Prussian cavalry regiments required the riders be six feet tall) and these riders were lightly armored. Their field load was routinely in excess of 330 lbs. These horses can carry very significant loads over at least medium distances, albeit at a slower pace.

Just because somebody breeds a drafter to a TB or Arab does not mean you’ve got a “warmblood” in the sense of the Trakhener. You might have a very capable horse, but you might not.

The more weight a horse carries the harder it has to work. This is just simple physics. A skilled rider will be much kinder to the horse than an “old sack of wheat” rider, no matter what the weight ratio. So there’s going to have to be some compromise, here. And that compromise may be the rider doing what they have to do in their personal life to make the job of their horse easier.

G.

[lilitiger2]

Timely issue though, there is a poster on another site who weighs about this much and is working to lose weight to be kinder to her horse! As G noted, no way around the fact that with a heavier weight, a horse will have to work harder.

Sure, good to be in shape and a capable rider, but 130 lbs is 130lbs and 300lbs is 300lbs, and there is a BIG difference.

Good bone density, short back, good feet, doesn’t carry head high (and hollow out back, making him or her more vulnerable to back problems)

[Guilherme]

[QUOTE=lilitiger2;6434911]
Timely issue though, there is a poster on another site who weighs about this much and is working to lose weight to be kinder to her horse! As G noted, no way around the fact that with a heavier weight, a horse will have to work harder.

Sure, good to be in shape and a capable rider, but 130 lbs is 130lbs and 300lbs is 300lbs, and there is a BIG difference.

Good bone density, short back, good feet, doesn’t carry head high (and hollow out back, making him or her more vulnerable to back problems)[/QUOTE]

That last item is something that riders of laterally gaited horses really have to watch. The more lateral a horse the higher probability of traveling hollow. Show Walkers, Rackers, Foxtrotters, Mountain Horses, etc. all tend to be hollow as that hollow allows a bigger “front end.” The bigger front end wins more blue ribbons. That then becomes a conformation point in breeding and saddle design. And in saddle placement, equitation style, etc.

If you’re a bigger rider you’ve got to keep the horse’s back at least neutral and maybe just a bit in bascule.

G.

[brightskyfarm]

[QUOTE=Guilherme;6434833]
IMO most of the theories of “weight bearing ratios” are based upon prejudice and anthropomorphism vice science or practical experience. So we’ll not go there.
Draft horses were bred to pull, not carry. Just because they are of large size does not mean that their spine is better suited to the large rider than a well conformed saddle horse. QUOTE]

Todays drafts and crosses are excellent saddle horses – in all the disciplines. The average rider is bigger today than ever before; its just what our society is.

 When I was a kid foxhunter, I remember the bigger men  always riding the crosses (usually with Tb's) -- and the rest of us trying to keep up~ they can do anything any other horse can do. 
 But, perhaps since I grew up with old-fashioned horsemen I had these concepts of weight ratio's.

 Im sure your FOF can find a gaited draft cross -- they are quite popular in the CTR crowds and social trail clubs. She most likely will even find spotted gaited draft x's.! ;)
 Here a 2second search.... cheap too! (spotted gaited draft cross)
 http://www.equine.com/19-27-20/gaited/draft/horses-for-sale.html

Heres one with foxhunting mileage!!~perch/qhX
http://www.foxhuntinghorse.com/guinness.cfm
this one was even a masters horse! a qh/belgianX
http://www.foxhuntinghorse.com/corei.cfm
And >>> cleveland bay/belgian (who can even DO Dressage!)
http://www.foxhuntinghorse.com/cleveland.cfm
and many more on this website too.

       heres an excellent article about drafts --- Ive ridden foxhunter draft crosses --- honestly, nothing nicer than having all that bulk under you over fences and territory. They werent cheap in those days; but  in todays market they are as much in demand as any other breed specific horse, or more.
  http://www.aignergraphics.com/Owning_A_Draft_or_Cross.html

[Guilherme]

So, draft horses were not bred to pull???

G.

[JollyBadger]

[QUOTE=2DogsFarm;6434725]
FOF’s current ride is a TWH and the folks she rides with most all ride gaited horses.

I’m told she needs something that can “gait out” to keep up with a group, but not so fast that she would have to lead a ride.

Otherwise I agree with you brightskyfarm, but don’t think she’ll go for that reasoning.

Twisted River & lilitiger, thanks for the DH listings - I’ll email them to my friend and hopefully they can find something to suit.[/QUOTE]

Check your PM’s.