New horse in group - bite marks!

[Chestnut24]

My horse is in a small gelding group. Until now it was three horses including him, ages 7 to 13. They are in a sand paddock with a big metal hay rack and had a peaceful co-existence. They are there circa 6am - 8pm, then are in the barn at night.

About 10 days ago a new horse came, a 4 year old fresh from the field who my trainer will start under saddle. Since he is there, my horse has new bite marks on his neck, basically every day. Whenever I am there, they are all hanging out together fine, so my guess is when they go out in the morning, there is some competition going on for the hay rack. Trainer puts an extra pile of hay in another corner, doesn’t seem to help.

Her attitude so far is ‘boys will be boys’, but I am not so happy my horse has bite marks every day!

Has anyone had experience where the new horse chills out after a while, or is this something I should immediately try to fix? There aren’t so many options at the barn, as the geldings are in this paddock and the mares in another.

[RAyers]

My horse lives out with 3 other geldings. They bite him, he bites them. It’s a running source of amusement for all of us. Horses are horses. Biting is part of their communication, and does not necessarily mean aggression or anger, nor may it be about food.

I am with your trainer. A 4 year old wants to play and he will need to learn social skills from the other horses. I bet in time things will settle down.

My guy regularly shows at the upper levels with bite marks on his neck, butt, haunches. I have not heard word one from any judge or TD about concerns.

[luvmyhackney]

I’m with your trainer. They will figure it out. Probably just playing hard.

[trubandloki]

@Chestnut24

My horse is in a small gelding group. Until now it was three horses including him, ages 7 to 13. They are in a sand paddock with a big metal hay rack and had a peaceful co-existence. They are there circa 6am - 8pm, then are in the barn at night.

About 10 days ago a new horse came, a 4 year old fresh from the field who my trainer will start under saddle. Since he is there, my horse has new bite marks on his neck, basically every day. Whenever I am there, they are all hanging out together fine, so my guess is when they go out in the morning, there is some competition going on for the hay rack. Trainer puts an extra pile of hay in another corner, doesn’t seem to help.

Her attitude so far is ‘boys will be boys’, but I am not so happy my horse has bite marks every day!

Has anyone had experience where the new horse chills out after a while, or is this something I should immediately try to fix? There aren’t so many options at the barn, as the geldings are in this paddock and the mares in another.

I agree with your trainer (and the others who have posted so far).

I would guess the marks are more likely from horse play, than hay rack competition.

[libgrrl]

I don’t know where you are, but in my neck of the woods grass is just now coming back. Nice pasture can be a great distraction!

[beowulf]

I would want to see this in action before making a decision. Is your horse older? Does he have a space to get away? How big is this lot and are resources truly separated?

I had a horse killed by a young 4 y/o in the field who the trainer said “was just feeling good”. So. I have a very different experience. He was kicked in the stifle by the young horse who had shoes and boriums. Joint involvement and bad prognosis for a pain free life.

Horses will be horses, yes, but horses also kick. Will a bite kill a horse? No, probably not. But kicks do. Make sure this young 4 y/o does not have hind shoes. If he does, move your horse yesterday. My experience managing young horses is they tend to be much more physical than older horses as they learn their boundaries. They may calm down as hierarchy is established, but they may not. Why should your horse be the punching bag they learn on?

Four horses to one hay rack is too many unless it’s a Hay Hut. Also - hay should never be fed in a corner.

That being said, my current horse lives out in a large herd of rowdy geldings. He does occasionally have bites on him. It is part of horse play to bite, and I know they are playing and staying civil with their hind end. But these are all my own horses. I would not be so cavalier with a boarder’s.

[RemarkableOwl21]

In my experience, the drama will calm down after a few weeks, maybe longer. I’ve had my gelding in similar situations and whenever a new horse was introduced, I would find bite marks and scabs for a few weeks, somewhere than others but nothing serious. Hopefully it will be the same for you. And hopefully none of the horses are wearing hind shoes.

[OverandOnward]

As an owner and boarder, it is one thing to have a little bit of missing hair here and there. Yes, that will probably settle out over a few weeks and they will learn to coexist more peacefully.

Beyond that, people who dismiss a genuine risk of damage from a truly aggressive herd-mate have a higher risk profile than I do. “Horses will be horses” – hell yes they definitely will be. Horses are large animals that can give their horse-friends life-changing injuries.

It is different if the bites are deeper and have blood. If there is major kicking. Some horses are consistently aggressive with other horses throughout their lives. They can be a danger of real injury from kicks and assaults, as well as random biting.

IME, truly aggressive horses tend not to settle down. It is just the way they are. IME this can happen with horses who weren’t well socialized to a herd during their formative years. Unfortunately there seem to be more and more of those, as horsemanship doesn’t always seem to be passed on to new-entry horse people. It can be hard to get horses socialized later in life. Sometimes the risk to themselves and to other horses isn’t worth it. It is better to keep them on the other side of a fence from other horses. Unless a companion is found that they stay with peacefully.

If my horse is showing minor signs of normal herd conflict, I would not bother much about a temporary adjustment situation. But I won’t settle for my horse being in a pasture with a horse that is prone to kicking and more serious aggression. Not just because of my horse’s comfort, but because my horse can end up with a permanent injury that could make him un-usable for the rest of a long life. If the BM tolerates it, it’s time to find a new barn that doesn’t.

[Pepsy]

Are the 2 other geldings getting bite marks also?

[GraceLikeRain]

Four horses on one hay rack and a pile of hay is absurd. You need as many piles as horses + 1 as a starting point. Is it a rack or a hay hut or what type of set up?

[Lusoluv]

Well, my horse is in the opposite situation as the OP. He is a 4 yr old recently added to a pasture group of 3 geldings age 11-17yrs. The pasture is only about 2 acres, and no grass the last 4 months. I keep him blanketed with appropriate fill (or none) just to keep most of his coat and skin in tact. One time I counted over 23 bites on his neck and face. Most are scrapes down to the hide, but 5 are a bit bloody. He stands there while the older crew uses him for a chew toy and he just takes it! My options are to keep him covered in the summer (I’m thinking a Kensington stiff fly sheet and neck cover) or go to single turnout where he’ll only get out 2 hours/day I ride the other horses for their owners. They have 3 or 4 bites total and are not kept blanketed except if temps fall below 20F.

[Chestnut24]

Thanks for the replies!

It is a bit relieving that some are not too concerned…

However I do have the feeling more feeding opportunities could help ease the situation. I attach a pic of the type of hay container. With the three geldings it was harmonious, but I could imagine how a fourth could lead to some aggressions, especially in the morning, and there are no dividers to discourage biting. Is just my sense of the situation…

Are the 2 other geldings getting bite marks also?

Only my horse has noticeable bites.

Well, my horse is in the opposite situation as the OP. He is a 4 yr old recently added to a pasture group of 3 geldings age 11-17yrs. The pasture is only about 2 acres, and no grass the last 4 months.

How long has your horse been in this set-up?

[anonevent]

Depends on your personal tolerance for cosmetic defects

I am not upset by casual bites on the side of the neck. I will draw the line at bloody gashes on the throat.

[anonevent]

Is your son the one without the neck cover?

[NaturallyHappy]

@beowulf, I agree w your assessment.

Years ago, we had a 4 year old come in who allegedly was good w other horses. He grabbed a smaller horse by the neck and threw him down twice before I could get there w a whip and chase him off.

The smaller horse was fine, fortunately. The other horse left the next day. I agree- horses will be horses but some are too aggressive to be w others. This potential disaster happened in the spring w good grass.

[NaturallyHappy]

@OverandOnward

IME, truly aggressive horses tend not to settle down. It

This has also been my experience.

[libgrrl]

I have an old OTTB that was uncut until he was 9 and has always required a careful introduction to new horses in “his” group. Once the herd dynamics are/were established, he’s sweet as pie, but he is/was always really uncomfortable with disruption. He’s 30 now, so that’s mostly in his past, but it was always a concern. I wouldn’t exactly call him “aggressive” however, just sort of the “decorum police.”

[NaturallyHappy]

We’ve had 2 geldings here…both of whom were bred as stallions and gelded late. Those two horses are two of the easiest horses in a group ever. Horses are such individuals…

[endlessclimb]

@anonevent

Is your son the one without the neck cover?

I just love the way you worded this.

[Lusoluv]

My horse has been in this pasture group for 4 months.