New hunter - afraid of water - suggestions?

[QUOTE=asb_own_me;3567883]
Thank you! You described exactly what I get from him - no reaction! Your method of dealing with it sounds like the approach I need to take with him. No amount of bullying would do it with him. I need to make him feel like we’re going at it together.[/QUOTE]

You’re welcome! :slight_smile: Daatje and I have run the full gamut of emotions during her training process.

The “trouble” started when she turned 5 years old, and decided she was going to be the leader. If she encountered a situation she didn’t like (water crossing being one of them), no amount of forcefullness could convince her to move. The more aids I used, the more she would ignore me in what seemed to be endless stubornness. :slight_smile: I would get angry, frustrated…many a ride ended with a “that’s it! This is the last time, she is FOR SALE!”.

But I love her. (she is my orphan baby that I have raised from birth) I could not bring myself to part with her, so I learned to be more thoughtful about our issues.

I began to realize that I was not communicating with her very well at all, and the more she felt me get flustered, the more convinced she was that I was not a worthy leader! Go figure.

Quiet persistence, tact and lots of time spent with her in many different situations have brought us to where we are today…a much more harmonious relationship. We have come to terms with each other. :slight_smile:

I truly wish you the best of luck. He will get over this, it just takes more time and patience than you may think humanly possible. :slight_smile:

The strong willed horses have great minds, they are fiercely loyal and protective. Winning their trust is the hardest of all, but once you have it…the relationship is like no other. :slight_smile:

There are horses that will ignore the go forward cue no matter what. If its due to extreme fear, the rider needs to work on desensitization. If its attiude, the rider needs to get respect. The method I described above can accomplish both.

Asanders, I took your approach last year with a horse that wouldn’t go near cattle. I forced the issue, he jumped a fence to escape, and broke his leg doing it. I should have listened to my gut which said moderation, and not to others (the trainer) who said just do it.

What happens when you ride him in the rain?

[QUOTE=Bank of Dad;3568708]

Asanders, I took your approach last year with a horse that wouldn’t go near cattle. I forced the issue, he jumped a fence to escape, and broke his leg doing it. I should have listened to my gut which said moderation, and not to others (the trainer) who said just do it.[/QUOTE]

Well, it’s too little of the story fo me to go by, but to be clear on my suggestion, I did not say ‘force’ the issue.

I have not found a horse yet that could not be ‘convinced’ and I have met some serious hard-heads. I will not ask a horse to go the ‘despite his fear’ route unless I am ‘sure’ I have enough clout in the ‘because you trust/respect me’ category. Whips and spurs don’t accomplish this. But I do seem to be more hard-headed than the horses :sigh:

[QUOTE=asanders;3568068]
OK, reading SA’s reponse made me think more about my own.

I have been given the chore of dealing with some particular ‘issues’ a horse may have. I have found that if I proceed with absolute confidence, and simply ‘expect’ the horse to trust my judgement, even when they don’t know me, and don’t do XYZ for their own rider, they may not do it right away, but they WILL do XYZ for me, and once they get over the hurdle, will do it again for me with much less irrational behavior.

OTOH, the horse’s response to a given situation is a combination of level of trust in the rider, and level of fear about XYZ. Even if trust, is high, serious fear can leave you with planted feet by the stream. (Of course, some a horses may have very little real trust in the rider, but not be afraid of XYZ --horsey trips merrily accross --not really best case, but it works, I guess).

In this equation, you can acheive the required level of trust, by A) expecting it, and/or B) working hard for it. You get past the fear by C) slow methodical de-sensitization, and/or D) Getting the horse to do XYZ, despite their fear.

Depending on the relationship you have developed over time with a horse, you may limit your access to (D). Someone with no relationship with the horse obviously has limited access to (B) and ©. But there is not necessarily one formula for success.[/QUOTE]

Good points. I think part of choosing your formula is in knowing whether you are dealing with a particular fear of a situation, lack of confidence due to inexperience or a general crappy attitude of avoidance. With my own issue, I was there for the initial fall in the mud, so I knew where our issue began. But, because of my own rider confidence issues, when the fear started to lead to avoidance, I did not step up to the plate and retrain right then and there. So, in reality, I took a fear and trained it into avoidance. When I realized what I was doing, I had to step back and fix first my reaction and then my horse’s reaction. I felt I had to retrain the “Forward because I say so” with some sensitivity to the fear I knew was at the root of it. When I had approached it as a crappy avoidance and used a crop, spurs, or gruff voice, the reaction I got was genuine anxiety. Had it been sheer bullheadedness, I would have probably gotten a short fight followed by a sigh and surrender. Because I feel it is relevant, here is an article I wrote about this very issue for the Amatuer Owner section of another forum. I don’t think ASB_Own_Me’s problem is rider confidence, but the parts about the horses’ confidence in the rider is relevant to her situation. This was written only three weeks ago, and we are still dealing with it in a small way each ride with good progress.

Grey Horse Finds His Courage ~ an essay on horse and rider confidence and the creation of bad habits

Bravery comes in all shapes and sizes. I began to lose mine about 10 years ago. It can’t be attributed to one riding event. It was a slow progression over several years with me losing confidence in my own riding ability incrementally, one episode at a time. Grey Horse lost his confidence in his rider in a soft spot in the lawn when he was a three year old. When you are an Amateur Owner Trainer, and you start with an untrained, honest, good thinking horse, there is no one to blame for their learned bad habits other than yourself. There is also no one there to fix them for you. You are faced with some choices. You can admit defeat and learn to live with the habit. You can send the horse to a professional to fix for you knowing that you run the risk of reviving the habit once the horse is returned to you. Or, you can straighten out both yourself and your horse.

I don’t trail ride but I like to take a walk up or down the shoulder of the road, or around the hay field now and then. Grey would happily go up the road where the shoulder is flat and wide, but he became increasingly nervous going down the road where the shoulder drops off to the field. He began to “act funny” about stepping off the firm pavement to the soft dirt shoulder. This began around the time he took a fall and hurt himself. My best guess was that he was afraid of places where the surface or depth seemed to change on him. I couldn’t really blame him. After all he had had an experience where the ground literally sank out from under him. I had asked him to go through a puddle at the gate to the arena. He refused and spun around. Then he felt so smart about that, he threw in a couple of crow hops, ignored my attempts to steer, and sunk up to his stifles in the one available soft spot of the lawn, the grave of our broodmare which was settling in the autumn rains. I rolled off easily. He stopped quickly, humbled by being knocked flat by some unseen force and was easy to catch, but he was stiff and sore for days.

Soon after, I began to notice him becoming nervous in certain terrain, especially along the road where the hayfields dropped off on a slope. The distance in that direction that he would go willingly got shorter and shorter. He would reach “the spot”, and just fade out from under me, spinning around with wobbly knees and a snort. We had a few discussions about it. I had taken a whip to his backside on more than one occasion but he simply locked his brakes in the middle of the road and took it like a man. There would be no forcing him past his comfort zone. He was also nervous enough that I was unable to dismount safely, and I had no other horses to follow past “the spot”.

Next, he decided he didn’t want to go down the driveway towards the house. I assumed this was because there was a lot to look at, and when he stepped off the driveway, the lawn is very soft and mucky there just like the place where he fell. This is where my lack of confidence took over. They say if you haven’t fallen off, then you haven’t really ridden. I don’t come off often, but as I get older it hurts more and more. Sometimes I ask for it. Sometimes I’ve been too dumb to see it coming. Because of this, I have begun to over think the situations I put myself and my horse into. Over thinking has turned into avoidance. What used to be a sensible “I know better” evolves into a crippling “I can’t”. This is why Grey had not been cured of his fear of going past the hayfields or the house. His rider had become too much of a chicken to face up to it for both of them. I justified it by saying that it was alot to expect of a green three year old to just set off on his own away from the barn with no other horses to follow, but as he got older and his training progressed that excuse was no longer holding water. Don’t get me wrong, I knew how to retrain him. It just has just felt safer not to push the issue. As a result I have been slowly training him into a bad habit that could affect his usefulness his whole life.

Lately this has started to bother me. I firmly believe there are two lessons every horse must learn unconditionally. The first one is “Whoa”. The second one is “Forward”. Two years into his training, and we were still failing lesson Two on a regular basis. So, I set about to cure us both. In fact, at this point, I was unsure if he was really afraid or if I had created the myth of his fear to justify my own avoidance of overcoming the problem.
First I decided to tackle the driveway towards the house. I led him down the driveway past the house to eat grass by the chicken coop. He was snorting and blowing, but he went willingly. The day after I was able to ride him past his scary spot, to the chicken coop. The day after that, we went around the circular driveway both ways, and stood at the porch long enough to talk to my mother. He was restive but obedient. He still wasn’t comfortable with the whole house thing, but I had safely proven to him that I was asking him to do something reasonable.

My success in riding him down towards the house cemented my resolve to get him down the road and around the hay field. I followed the same procedure. I took him for a walk on the lead to eat grass so he could take a good look around. As expected, he got to “his spot”, paused and snorted. While he was considering his options, I patted him and coaxed him past. He was noticeably alert, but we went down the road aways to the field driveway where he could stand on a wide level area and eat grass. He soon relaxed. We walked around a bit more as he gained confidence in this new territory. Then, I asked him to step off the shoulder down the slope to the driveway left by the logging trucks this spring. Again he went willingly and followed me about 50 feet down the trail. Not wanting to lose our momentum, I went back to the barn and saddled him up. It was now or never. I admit I was running though a checklist in my mind. Was I rushing things? Should I work him first to tire him out? Was I deviating too far from my comfortable safe routine? Was my helmet fastened securely?

We returned to the road. He walked past “his spot” like a trooper. He stepped off the shoulder, down the slope into the field. I’m thinking “Hey this is going great, is it possible it was that easy?” He got to the spot where I had stopped him while leading, and that was as far as we were going. I kicked a little harder. I had purposely left my riding whip behind. I didn’t want to bully him into this. I wanted him to trust me and gain confidence in his rider’s requests. I could feel my own resolve fading, but we had come this far. For me to give in now would only reinforce his habit and negate the progress made thus far. I made sure he was standing safely, and I dismounted. I ran my stirrups up, and pulled the reins over his head. The over thinking kicked in again. Should I have brought a lead rope? Maybe even a lunge line? Would he spook and jump on me? Would he try to pull back and return to the barn dragging his reins and/or me? The over thinking was in full swing. I took a deep breath. We were going down that field.

Grey Horse followed me warily down the trail keeping a close eye on the shoulder high grass on each side as it rustled in the wind. We went most of the way down and I turned and lead him back. He was a little snorty, but this is a sensible horse. Any escalation at this point would be entirely my fault. When I got to the spot where I had dismounted I called my helper over to hold him as I remounted. I turned him down the field and started talking to keep myself breathing. Grey Horse advanced slowly but willingly. He was feeling the burden of responsibility for his own safety in this new situation, not mine I’m sure.

We got the point where I had stopped leading the second time. He recognised “the spot,” he had marked it with manure just to be sure. He hesitated. I continued talking and kicked him forward. We continued down the field well past his limit breaking into a jog now and then. At the bottom I turned him gradually instead of halting and putting him in a position where he could fade out from under me as was his habit. Now to get him back up the field without a bolt. He jigged a bit seeing the safety of the barn up ahead, but settled in obediently enjoying his well deserved praise. We returned to the driveway. Instead of turning towards the barn, he continued confidently towards the house. I began to turn him along the circle, but he obviously had thought we were going on towards the chicken coop. Delighted in his eagerness to go forward, I steered back that way, then around the back of the house, and to the barn the long way. We had crossed a major hurdle. He had regained confidence in his rider, and I had regained confidence in my horse and myself. I was back on the road to being a responsible Amateur Owner Trainer.

[QUOTE=SEPowell;3568869]
What happens when you ride him in the rain?[/QUOTE]

No idea. He’s never really been ridden outside before :wink:

We went to the hunt last night. I lost my patience for working “with” him when he planted and refused to walk through a gate area where there was churned up mud from cattle. The cattle didn’t bother him…the mooing, head tossing, and running, he was fine. But god FORBID he walk through muck to go through the gate.

I decided that was that with the stopping and foot planting because I saw no good reason for him to act like that. He got a whip, smack, hard, once, behind the saddle. He went. He later got the same treatment by a mucky crossing leading up to a small stream. It took several whacks, but he went. I feel badly because I don’t feel like I helped him understand that it’s not scary, but I decided this stopping and planting isn’t much safer than a horse throwing a fit. Bottom line, how I’ve always felt, if you tell the horse to go, the horse better GO. Time for him to “man up” :smiley: I was proud of him after he got through the muck and hopped over the stream. He was obviously quite pleased with himself, too…that he figured out how NOT to get smacked. Lesson learned, either way.

asanders, no offense taken. We’ve all seen riders who really aren’t committed to going over/past whatever “it” is, so why should the horse? You were right to suggest someone else taking over, for whatever reason. It just wasn’t going to be what I was going to do.

Thanks to everyone for all the suggestions. I’m sure this isn’t over by a long shot, but I’ll carry my crop now and make sure he understands that GO MEANS GO!

Good for you guys! I didn’t think it was some deep seated irrational fear of water! I’ll bet he was proud that he learned to get dirty.

I grew up on a white legged Arabian who hated to get dirty. On more than one occassion, I found him licking his front legs clean. I KID YOU NOT.

I teased him that he’d have to tell the Park mare and the 3-gaited gelding he’s stabled in between at the trainers’ all about how he “OMG! Got Feet Dirty!”

How about clicker training? You might consider it. It works fast and well for irrational fears and such.
Go to Gary Wilkes Clicker Training website and try contacting him. He may be able to help you or even give you an online consultation. He’s trained some horses with clickers with great results.
If Karen Pryor and all the people at seaworld can get sea otters, cats, birds, dogs, whales, dolphins , etc to do what they want with a clicker, why not horses?

[QUOTE=Nlevie;3565484]
I agree those are 2 separate issues, and really just basic training. It will be tough to complete a foxhunt without crossing water or mud at some point, so you need to go back to basics to work on it outside of the hunt field. —WELL, you could move to AZ for hunting. Not much water here to cross!!!

[QUOTE=findeight;3565607]
Crowding or sandwiching wont work, that just puts the squeeze on an already panicky one…I mean just allow him to follow another horse that he has been following around for awhile. You can pony him or just follow another rider on that horse…but NO panic, squeeze or rush. Most of them don’t like being left when they have been following a buddy and will rather face the water then being left alone.

One caution, don’t assume that just because he will wade across a puddle or stream to eat, he will allow himself to be ridden across water-they are smarter then that.

At some point after you have conditioned out the fear, you can press the obedience issues. But you can count on that cropping up.[/QUOTE]

Make sure when you use a lead horse that you use a good halter and soft lead rope, not a bridle.

[QUOTE=asb_own_me;3565488]
I can’t figure out if it’s that, or that he was never exposed to it.

He just came home from his first season of showing, and the grooms were super patient with him with the sponging/bathing. They just kept doing it slowly, slowly, slowly, at first with not much water and then slowly with more. He can do that now, but still doesn’t like it. They chose to baby him with the fly spray and just wiped it on! The barn he was at before, I honestly don’t think they ever bothered to bathe, sponge, or fly spray him :no:

I will work on different surfaces. Now that I think about it, he wasn’t real thrilled at two of the shows where there were black rubber mats in the chute to the show ring, but he went. I told my husband last night that I had an odd request - I said, “Can you make me a mud puddle?” He was :lol::lol::lol:

I haven’t owned him that long, and he spent the summer at his show barn, not with us at home. He’s a big cuddler, and I know he likes/trusts me. He nickers when he sees me coming :smiley: We will just have to build on that around “horse-eating surfaces”![/QUOTE]

There are some really good exercises in Tellington touch (the book or DVD) to work on going forward over, under and through scary stuff, plus deal with the fly spray/baths, etc.
I’m not a huge fan of TT but for some horses it really, really works.

Water

a few issues here- but really the huntfield isnt the ideal place to deal with them…

some tips_
Fly spray—get an old fly spray bottle and fill with water- mark it such- then get a nice tub of feed and stand beside him and as he eats- spray the water- first away–then eventually on his legs…etc etc…use water as it is FREE while he is getting accustomed --dont do this in cross ties- rather a nice leather shank with a nose chain to keep him put… continue to do this before nad after grooming every time you ride- to desensitize him to fly spray bottoe.

Water from a hose- my wb mare is a similar pest when it comes to water from a hose…same approach- leather lead shank- outside- over nose chain- hose- nice and long so it is flat on the ground- keep the lead in your hand adn spray his legs/shoulders etc etc…so he can get accustomed …he will over time.

wotj waer oon the trail- again need to fix it before you hunt- so that you can reinforce it…
john lyons has a really great trick for getting horses across water- in his book- basically when you are NOT on a hunt- spend some time out in areas where the water is not deep and take him backa ndforward and wait him out…
good luck.

Hey Kim, Grey and I learned the “Mud and Water” lesson today. Of course we did it in the safety of the outdoor arena so technically he knew what was at the bottom of the puddles. If we had encountered one in the field, we could be still discussing the route home. I was pretty proud of him since I know he hasn’t seen either mud or a puddle in the three years I’ve owned him, and I got him when he was two.

After the initial Saddlebred reaction of “Ewww, what’s this :eek:” we were happily sloshing through them all. Downside… I had to clean him up after.:sigh: I’ll have to wash his tail again this weekend.

I’ve had Irish horses that wouldn’t step in water, because in Ireland the point is to jump OVER the wet places that have no bottom in the huntfield. They had been buried in a drain out hunting one day and got very careful after that to the point of being annoying.

I know of an old Irishman who loaded a horse into the trailer and backed the trailer into about 2’ of water in the stream in the village. He eventually dropped the ramp of the trailer and backed the horse out. He sat on his back and rode him around in the water for awhile. I believe the horse rode into water after that.

I’ve had horses from out west that wouldn’t step in water. Only ever saw water in the trough.

My current farm has a 40 acre lake that the horses can drink out of. All of my horses are great with crossing water.

I am really enjoying this thread. My BO’s house is on the property and the driveway goes from concrete to stone in front of the house. I was riding my 4 yr old greenie up to the house and she would. not. step. onto the stone part. I got off to lead her across and she stepped right on, following me. I have worked with her walking over a tarp and she is ok with that. how can I get to the point where I can just ride her across the scary stuff without having to lead her first? Or will it just take more time, patience, and repetition?

With the water. Congrats on getting through the mud and ickies!!! for back up work and desensitizing him try a bucket filled with water and lifting a foot and putting it in.If he trusts you that should be an easy step.

[QUOTE=jerseypony;3586718]
I am really enjoying this thread. My BO’s house is on the property and the driveway goes from concrete to stone in front of the house. I was riding my 4 yr old greenie up to the house and she would. not. step. onto the stone part. I got off to lead her across and she stepped right on, following me. I have worked with her walking over a tarp and she is ok with that. how can I get to the point where I can just ride her across the scary stuff without having to lead her first? Or will it just take more time, patience, and repetition?[/QUOTE]

If you can get her to stand in the middle of the “scary” stuff try leading her on to it, stopping her and mounting and riding off of it.

[QUOTE=SmartAlex;3569912]
Good points. I think part of choosing your formula is in knowing whether you are dealing with a particular fear of a situation, lack of confidence due to inexperience or a general crappy attitude of avoidance. With my own issue, I was there for the initial fall in the mud, so I knew where our issue began. But, because of my own rider confidence issues, when the fear started to lead to avoidance, I did not step up to the plate and retrain right then and there. So, in reality, I took a fear and trained it into avoidance. When I realized what I was doing, I had to step back and fix first my reaction and then my horse’s reaction. I felt I had to retrain the “Forward because I say so” with some sensitivity to the fear I knew was at the root of it. When I had approached it as a crappy avoidance and used a crop, spurs, or gruff voice, the reaction I got was genuine anxiety. Had it been sheer bullheadedness, I would have probably gotten a short fight followed by a sigh and surrender. Because I feel it is relevant, here is an article I wrote about this very issue for the Amatuer Owner section of another forum. I don’t think ASB_Own_Me’s problem is rider confidence, but the parts about the horses’ confidence in the rider is relevant to her situation. This was written only three weeks ago, and we are still dealing with it in a small way each ride with good progress.

Grey Horse Finds His Courage ~ an essay on horse and rider confidence and the creation of bad habits

Bravery comes in all shapes and sizes. I began to lose mine about 10 years ago. It can’t be attributed to one riding event. It was a slow progression over several years with me losing confidence in my own riding ability incrementally, one episode at a time. Grey Horse lost his confidence in his rider in a soft spot in the lawn when he was a three year old. When you are an Amateur Owner Trainer, and you start with an untrained, honest, good thinking horse, there is no one to blame for their learned bad habits other than yourself. There is also no one there to fix them for you. You are faced with some choices. You can admit defeat and learn to live with the habit. You can send the horse to a professional to fix for you knowing that you run the risk of reviving the habit once the horse is returned to you. Or, you can straighten out both yourself and your horse.

I don’t trail ride but I like to take a walk up or down the shoulder of the road, or around the hay field now and then. Grey would happily go up the road where the shoulder is flat and wide, but he became increasingly nervous going down the road where the shoulder drops off to the field. He began to “act funny” about stepping off the firm pavement to the soft dirt shoulder. This began around the time he took a fall and hurt himself. My best guess was that he was afraid of places where the surface or depth seemed to change on him. I couldn’t really blame him. After all he had had an experience where the ground literally sank out from under him. I had asked him to go through a puddle at the gate to the arena. He refused and spun around. Then he felt so smart about that, he threw in a couple of crow hops, ignored my attempts to steer, and sunk up to his stifles in the one available soft spot of the lawn, the grave of our broodmare which was settling in the autumn rains. I rolled off easily. He stopped quickly, humbled by being knocked flat by some unseen force and was easy to catch, but he was stiff and sore for days.

Soon after, I began to notice him becoming nervous in certain terrain, especially along the road where the hayfields dropped off on a slope. The distance in that direction that he would go willingly got shorter and shorter. He would reach “the spot”, and just fade out from under me, spinning around with wobbly knees and a snort. We had a few discussions about it. I had taken a whip to his backside on more than one occasion but he simply locked his brakes in the middle of the road and took it like a man. There would be no forcing him past his comfort zone. He was also nervous enough that I was unable to dismount safely, and I had no other horses to follow past “the spot”.

Next, he decided he didn’t want to go down the driveway towards the house. I assumed this was because there was a lot to look at, and when he stepped off the driveway, the lawn is very soft and mucky there just like the place where he fell. This is where my lack of confidence took over. They say if you haven’t fallen off, then you haven’t really ridden. I don’t come off often, but as I get older it hurts more and more. Sometimes I ask for it. Sometimes I’ve been too dumb to see it coming. Because of this, I have begun to over think the situations I put myself and my horse into. Over thinking has turned into avoidance. What used to be a sensible “I know better” evolves into a crippling “I can’t”. This is why Grey had not been cured of his fear of going past the hayfields or the house. His rider had become too much of a chicken to face up to it for both of them. I justified it by saying that it was alot to expect of a green three year old to just set off on his own away from the barn with no other horses to follow, but as he got older and his training progressed that excuse was no longer holding water. Don’t get me wrong, I knew how to retrain him. It just has just felt safer not to push the issue. As a result I have been slowly training him into a bad habit that could affect his usefulness his whole life.

Lately this has started to bother me. I firmly believe there are two lessons every horse must learn unconditionally. The first one is “Whoa”. The second one is “Forward”. Two years into his training, and we were still failing lesson Two on a regular basis. So, I set about to cure us both. In fact, at this point, I was unsure if he was really afraid or if I had created the myth of his fear to justify my own avoidance of overcoming the problem.
First I decided to tackle the driveway towards the house. I led him down the driveway past the house to eat grass by the chicken coop. He was snorting and blowing, but he went willingly. The day after I was able to ride him past his scary spot, to the chicken coop. The day after that, we went around the circular driveway both ways, and stood at the porch long enough to talk to my mother. He was restive but obedient. He still wasn’t comfortable with the whole house thing, but I had safely proven to him that I was asking him to do something reasonable.

My success in riding him down towards the house cemented my resolve to get him down the road and around the hay field. I followed the same procedure. I took him for a walk on the lead to eat grass so he could take a good look around. As expected, he got to “his spot”, paused and snorted. While he was considering his options, I patted him and coaxed him past. He was noticeably alert, but we went down the road aways to the field driveway where he could stand on a wide level area and eat grass. He soon relaxed. We walked around a bit more as he gained confidence in this new territory. Then, I asked him to step off the shoulder down the slope to the driveway left by the logging trucks this spring. Again he went willingly and followed me about 50 feet down the trail. Not wanting to lose our momentum, I went back to the barn and saddled him up. It was now or never. I admit I was running though a checklist in my mind. Was I rushing things? Should I work him first to tire him out? Was I deviating too far from my comfortable safe routine? Was my helmet fastened securely?

We returned to the road. He walked past “his spot” like a trooper. He stepped off the shoulder, down the slope into the field. I’m thinking “Hey this is going great, is it possible it was that easy?” He got to the spot where I had stopped him while leading, and that was as far as we were going. I kicked a little harder. I had purposely left my riding whip behind. I didn’t want to bully him into this. I wanted him to trust me and gain confidence in his rider’s requests. I could feel my own resolve fading, but we had come this far. For me to give in now would only reinforce his habit and negate the progress made thus far. I made sure he was standing safely, and I dismounted. I ran my stirrups up, and pulled the reins over his head. The over thinking kicked in again. Should I have brought a lead rope? Maybe even a lunge line? Would he spook and jump on me? Would he try to pull back and return to the barn dragging his reins and/or me? The over thinking was in full swing. I took a deep breath. We were going down that field.

Grey Horse followed me warily down the trail keeping a close eye on the shoulder high grass on each side as it rustled in the wind. We went most of the way down and I turned and lead him back. He was a little snorty, but this is a sensible horse. Any escalation at this point would be entirely my fault. When I got to the spot where I had dismounted I called my helper over to hold him as I remounted. I turned him down the field and started talking to keep myself breathing. Grey Horse advanced slowly but willingly. He was feeling the burden of responsibility for his own safety in this new situation, not mine I’m sure.

We got the point where I had stopped leading the second time. He recognised “the spot,” he had marked it with manure just to be sure. He hesitated. I continued talking and kicked him forward. We continued down the field well past his limit breaking into a jog now and then. At the bottom I turned him gradually instead of halting and putting him in a position where he could fade out from under me as was his habit. Now to get him back up the field without a bolt. He jigged a bit seeing the safety of the barn up ahead, but settled in obediently enjoying his well deserved praise. We returned to the driveway. Instead of turning towards the barn, he continued confidently towards the house. I began to turn him along the circle, but he obviously had thought we were going on towards the chicken coop. Delighted in his eagerness to go forward, I steered back that way, then around the back of the house, and to the barn the long way. We had crossed a major hurdle. He had regained confidence in his rider, and I had regained confidence in my horse and myself. I was back on the road to being a responsible Amateur Owner Trainer.[/QUOTE]
Again, although I don’t use it that often, he would be a perfect candidate for the Tellington touch and Clicker training. Where are you located? Gary Wilkes is the best clicker trainer out there and if anyone could get your horse over his issues I think that he could.
(BTW, I do clicker my dog, just haven’t gotten around to trying it with my horse)

I had this exact issue with my Paint. The exact same reaction to water/mud/mildly damp ground. So I discovered that if I took him out on his own he was a bit more sensible about water than if he had a buddy to hide behind. I mounted up and found a puddle somewhere and took him up to it. when he stopped, I just let him stand there and get comfortable at that distance. when he relaxed a bit, I gave a little leg and if he took a step forward, I would stop him and praise him.

My whole mindset during this exercise was you can’t go anywhere but through it. no turning around, backing away, etc. He can stand there all day staring at it for all I care, but he eventually got bored and walked around the muddy-ish edge of the puddle. So we repeated this every day and now he goes through mud and jumps over puddles.

JMHO!

:rolleyes: Uhhhhh…clicker training for the hunt field!!! I gotta think that’d be a no-no!! Not sure what kind of reception you’d get when you start clicking out in the field…:uhoh: TTeam, clicker, whatever you wanna use but NOT to be done in the field!! PRIOR to hunting or for training? Whatever. It’s just disrespectful to expect any hunt to participate in YOUR horses’ training. You need to have your horse purty well there to take him out most of the time. But this sounds like what you have been doing so congratulations and everyone has that occasional glitch out there. Just smile and try to work thru it. Just like any other horse discipline; hunting requires advance training to prepare and do it well and be safe & considerate.