New job offer - need help negotiating a schedule that leaves time to ride

[west5]

I’ve been offered a new job. We have not yet discussed a salary/benefits/vacation package.

Currently I do shift work 3-4 days a week. The days that I am on I work from about 6:45am - 7:45pm. Sometimes I get a real lunch break but rarely. All major holidays and two weekends a month are usually spent at work. When I am off, however, I am really off. No take home work and at least three (but mainly four) days a week I am free. Often too exhausted to do much for at least one!

New job would be attached to a research project. Supposedly the hours are “more normal” five days a week 9 to 5.

Position is newly created and I am told I will be fairly autonomous. Direct boss I have heard is “lovely” from several sources. The person who is “officially” hiring me I will see in a group meeting one hour a week. She is who I have to officially negotiate the package.

My barn is at least 1 HOUR and 15 minutes away in each direction. This really is the closest option for my discipline of choice. Due to commuter traffic I cannot ride before 9 or after 5 without incurring a catastrophic commute.

I’d like to have at least one weekday morning to ride. I could probably be at the office by noon (Definitely by 1:00).

I’d also be happy to work 4 ten hour days with the understanding that periodically I’d need to come in on the day off.

Do I negotiate a flexible schedule? Work from home day? More vacation time that I actually really “use”? How do I do this?

From what I can gather from an email trail I was not supposed to see, they are pretty desperate to hire me. (I did not apply for this job but was referred by a third party. I was not actively job hunting)

For the record, I’m in my 40s and a very good employee. I get my work done properly and on time.

What have others done that has resulted in a good work schedule? Was it official or just a “deal” you made with your immediate supervisor?

If you are a supervisor and have this deal with an employee what made you grant it and happy with the situation?

[IronwoodFarm]

Obviously it depends on the work involved, but I agree that the time to discuss this is during the hiring process BEFORE you start the job. For example my employer has office hours from 9 - 5, but were willing to let me work 8 - 4:00 because I carpool.

I would propose several of the options you mentioned – compressed 4 day work week, one day delayed start. Work from home is fine IF you are working, not using it as barn time. Basically it is a delayed start.

As a manager, I much prefer a set schedule because I can plan around it. For example, we have staff here going to grad school and we work around class schedules. What I don’t want is a week-to-week floating schedule.

I would make sure my “deal” was official. I would get it in writing. The last thing you want is to have an informal agreement and then get a new supervisor decides to cancel it.

I’m not sure about the comment: More vacation time that I actually really “use”? If you are asking to start with more vacation time, then ask for it now. Vacation time is something that you either use or carry forward (with some rules about how much). Most employers pay out unused vacation. I see it as a separate matter from a schedule.

If you have good attendance and output and the new job offers flexibility, I would have no problem dealing with a schedule request. I do think it helps that the OP is a mature worker with experience. I once refused a schedule request from an applicant who was coming in at her first entry level position and wanted to start work hours before anyone arrived. Her job needed supervision and team interaction, so a 6 a.m. start time was not feasible.

OP, I think you should have no problem negotiating what you need. Congratulations on the new job!

[soloudinhere]

well, a few comments:

1. “work from home day” is not the same thing as “day off.” You won’t be able to disappear for half a day working from home any more than you could in the office.

2. I really doubt you’d be able to sell an employer on you showing up at 1:00 in the afternoon, even one day a week. You might be able to propose a half day where you come in for the morning, but most won’t go for someone showing up that late. A typical delayed start would be 10:00am, not 1:00pm.

Additionally, traffic is not your employer’s problem, and if traffic is bad, you might have to do what the rest of us do and haul yourself out of bed and ride at 6:30am and make it to the office for 9.

3. You could potentially propose alternative hours, but I am guessing that this employer probably has “core hours” where employees must be available, plus your barn commute probably means that you could not propose a 7:00 to 3:00 arrangement. By the same token, 4/10 may not work.

You can always ask. This employer doesn’t know how you work, or how reliable you are, so it wouldn’t be unreasonable for them to say that you need to work the normal schedule for some time to prove your reliability. It really depends on the culture.

I work from home 2 days a week, and another person on my team works 7-2 and gets back online at night. It can be done, but just be really careful that you understand what you’re asking for and that it IS a major concession at most employers.

[fordtraktor]

I would ask for the 4 tens and then see if you could do a noon to 8 or 1-9 pm one day a week alternatively. But you might have to do a crap commute to the barn one way and just ask for an early arrival and departure one day per week. Working from home is great but it isn’t going to fix your schedule issue if you have to be on during those hours. If you could do both on your early depart day, that might make everything easier too.

I would definitely negotiate it now.

[Uncorked]

I generally will ask if the company and or position allows for flextime and what that policy is. I have negotiated working 6am-3pm M-thur and 6-10am on Fridays. They also know, however, that I am available by cell phone or email if they really need something after I am gone on those days…I am in an exempt professional position. Now I did negotiate this schedule after I started in the position. When I first started things moved very slow in the afternoons and it was frustrating knowing that I still had to go to the barn and ride…so I started leaving around 10am going for my ride and being back around noon or so…course my barn was only 20 min from work at that time with no real traffic to deal with. Once I got the processes more in control I was able to go to the flextime schedule that I have now.

[SnicklefritzG]

OP, is the company large enough that you would be able to find some online reviews on a place like Glassdoor.com? If there are enough reviews, one can throw out the glowing reviews, and the really bad ones and be left with stuff in the middle that probably gives one a good idea of what the company is like.

If it isn’t large enough for that, or online reviews aren’t available anywhere, is there another way you can figure out what the culture is like there?

Some companies have a culture of flexibility and are very good about letting people try alternate scheduled such as 4/10 or shifting their work from 9 to 5 to 7 to 3, and so forth. Others are more strict about this due to either the culture or the nature of the work.

I would recommend a two phase approach. First, try to negotiate for 4/10 or something like that up front when you KNOW they are desperate to hire you. Get it in writing. Then, work your @$$ off the first few months and when you have your first performance review, then would be a good time to talk about further modifications.

It is a delicate balance because you want to negotiate for key things up front, but if you ask for too much they may think you care more about your time off than your time on the job. If you establish yourself as a good worker, then it may be easier to get little perks that aren’t widely available to most people.

[RedmondDressage]

I’m just trying to figure out why you couldn’t get to work until noon? I have a similar commute yet managed to feed/clean for 3 horses at home, get to the barn where my 4th was boarded, ride, and get to the office by 9:30 or 10. There were four of us at my old barn who did that schedule. Or you can ride after work, which is what what most of us 9 - 5ers do. Speaking as an HR person, noon or 1 pm is an unreasonable ask IMO.

You could try asking for 4/10s, or you could ask for a reasonable accommodation, like a 10am or 7 am start, and you can ride early or after work.

[RedmondDressage]

I’m just trying to figure out why you couldn’t get to work until noon? I have a similar commute yet managed to get to the barn, ride, and get to the office by 9:30 or 10, and we have pretty horrendous traffic in Seattle. But who knows, maybe it’s worse where you are. There were four of us at my old barn who did that schedule. Or you can ride after work, which is what what most of us 9 - 5ers do. Speaking as an HR person, noon or 1 pm is an unreasonable ask IMO.

You could try asking for 4/10s, or you could ask for a reasonable accommodation like a 10am start and ride early.

[charismaryllis]

i dunno, maybe i’m just old, but i wouldn’t be asking for anything at this point in the process. maybe you can hire on at their regular hours, and in a few months, after you’ve shown how valuable you are, you could start raising the issue of shifting your work hours around.

[HungarianHippo]

Definitely find out the culture first. Flextime benefits are a big deal in most companies. If a friend referred you, I’m guessing he/she works there? Used LinkedIn to see who else works there that’s in your network? In your negotiation, i would frame the request as I’m a serious rider who competes, and it requires regular training – not “I ride horses.” (Which for most people the mental image will be something like this.

Anyway, I’d tread carefully. Not saying at ALL that you shouldn’t ask as part of th negotiation-- we women tend not to ask for enough. But getting the benefit up front does not preclude your manager or co-workers from building resentment over time. They may be desperate to hire you right now, but that “glow” may evaporates over time.

[CHT]

I would think riding after work would be easier wouldn’t it? You can go ride smelling like the office, but people tend to look at you funny if you go to work smelling like riding. I would try to get an early out day a couple days a week if you can.

I agree that the work from home option is unlikely to help you UNLESS the commute to work is also a long one. Employers want to know you are actually working the hours when you are at home. Of course working from home also means you can be horse stinky and be ok.

[red_mares]

I work in commuter hell and saying that you couldn’t get to work before noon or 1pm sounds ridiculous. Saying you need the time off for a hobby = :lol::lol:

Where I work is pretty flexible because of the traffic hell, but core hours are 9-3. Everyone is expected to be available during those hours. You can come in early or leave late, but at 10 am someone better be able to find you if needed. I work very independently - I’m the only one where I work supporting a specific project & customer. But I have to interact with said customer & other companies.

[Dressagelvr]

How badly do you want this job?

Some employers are very open to flextime, others are not. I would try to determine where this company falls before I broached the subject. You could cost yourself the job. Or it could be fine. Do some research.

[Pocket_Pony]

Twice I negotiated riding time after getting hired, and once before. The first time was tied in to my commute because I lived on the Peninsula and took BART into SF and if I didn’t get into the parking lot early then there was no where to park and I wasn’t about to drive into SF every day for work. I got a 7-3 schedule and it worked out great. BUT, the work I did was very independent and I didn’t have someone who looked over my shoulder and I wasn’t part of a team that required me to be there at certain hours.

The second time I negotiated to work the same schedule and it actually worked out great for the office because there was a group of people (me included) who took weekly turns doing a morning 7-8 duty. I volunteered to do it always and that was great for the working moms who couldn’t get out the door so early. Another time when I switched jobs (but worked for the same boss), I ended up riding early before work so would get to work around 9 (which seemed late since I had been starting at 7 before that). That was a shitty schedule, but if I wanted to ride it had to be before work at 6 or 6:30.

The last time I negotiated for it I did mention I was a competitive rider and the way my trainer’s schedule was I had to have my lesson at x time of day and so they agreed to let me off early (it was only one day per week).

I guess it depends on how much you want the job and what your job duties are and how their culture is. If they came looking for you, they may be more amenable to giving you a flexible schedule. If you didn’t go looking around for a job and you have a good gig where you are now with your riding schedule, then you may be in a better position to negotiate, since you don’t HAVE to switch jobs.

Good luck!

[furlong47]

Could you not ride in the evenings? I work from 9-6, have a half hour drive to the barn, which puts me on a horse by 7. With your schedule that would work out the same. Plenty of time unless you have no option for a lighted ring or indoor. (And it’s still ok on light 6 months out of the year.)

Most people I know with 9-5 type jobs, their offices are more likely to let them slide forward and come in/leave early (7-3 or 8-4) rather than other types of adjustments. My work times are not at all flexible due to the scheduled nature of our product.

[CLB15]

I’d see if they’d be flexible for a 7-3, 8-4 or 10-6- whatever is during most regular business hours, but lets you escape either the beginning or end of the commuter rush

My schedule is an 8 1/2 hour work day (including a lunch break that I never take). My team is made up of fellow train commuters, and missing one train means a 40-60 minute wait for the next. To duck out 15 minutes early to catch a 5pm train is “ok” (my work is independent and I’m always on email once I’m home, anyway). 1 hour 15 min from office to home, and another hour + from home to the barn. Not great, but workable!

[amb]

[QUOTE=west5;8205667]
I’ve been offered a new job. We have not yet discussed a salary/benefits/vacation package.[/QUOTE]

Saying that you’ve been offered a new job without that conversation seems premature; best not to get too emotionally attached to it. (Kind of like “don’t fall in love with the horse until the PPE goes well and you settle on a price.”.)

Otherwise, I’m for being up-front. “9-5 M-F doesn’t work; I need one morning a week on my own time. How can we make that work?” Be prepared to walk if the answer is “we can’t”.

That said, I also work in a researchy environment, and people’s hours are all over the place; people just need to get the job done. (Here, few people would even notice one morning a week, again if the work was getting done.)

[Pennywell_Bay]

1. Larger companies are more apt to use flexible work arrangements or remote work, generally.
2. You need to find out their culture regarding this prior to accepting.
3. Lab jobs do not typically allow for such flexible arrangements (I’ve been in pharma for 20 years, hours do vary). You need to be there to start or finish assays, feed animals, whatever. Any work that you can do at home must be via a remote server on a company issued laptop, as a best practice.
4. I manage and work in a flexible work environment. Work from home (WFH) is not a day off. You can’t go spend 4 hours in working hours away from the computer to ride your horse or whatever. It is a privilege.
5. I recently turned down a job that was higher paying, but not flexible with the hours. Those are the breaks. I need flexibility currently for numerous reasons.
6. You say you need to keep your horse where it is, but is it a possibility to move it closer and trailer for training.
7. These are topics that are best addressed (to me as a hiring manager) when the interviewer asks “Do you have any questions for me about the position?” Besides job related questions, a good question is “What are core hours, do you allow flex time, is remote work a possibility” (not in the same breath). The interview is a time to find out if you and the job are the right fit for the company.
8. I am very lucky I work in a company and my manager (who is a horse person) is flexible, I deal with China, Japan and the EU, so I am able to flex my time. For example, today I have a vet appointment at 1:30. But I had a telecom Wed from 8 PM to 10, and was up for a Japan telecom at 3 AM yesterday. But all my time is accounted for and this is definitely not the norm. Some of my employees are 100% WFH, but they are sure there during the day (oh and their kids are in daycare or school or camp. WFH is not a free babysitting service, excluding exceptions).
9. You need to re-evaluate the situation, or be very clear with your manager. There very well be a next person in line willing to put in “normal” hours without the distraction or demands. Just a thought.

It may sound like I am coming down on OP, I am not. I am trying to give a point of view from someone who is blessed to be in a flexible, company wide, work environment. I can’t stress enough how much of a privilege it is, not to be abused.

[LauraKY]

My daughters in research and she negotiated 4 10 hour days. She spent 5th day working in another lab.

[pattnic]

@Pennywell Bay;8205905

3. Lab jobs do not typically allow for such flexible arrangements (I’ve been in pharma for 20 years, hours do vary). You need to be there to start or finish assays, feed animals, whatever. Any work that you can do at home must be via a remote server on a company issued laptop, as a best practice.

I’m going to disagree with this a bit - while this would absolutely be the case for an industry-based lab job, an academia-based lab job tends to be much more flexible. Government is somewhere in-between. (I’ve done all three). So depending on the research (and whether it is actually in a lab), scheduling can be flexible.

I’m currently working in a academic lab; my current work schedule is to come in early and leave early 2 days/week (M-W-F I work 9-5, T-Th I work 7:30-2:30 and don’t take lunch - I work a 35 hour week). I had this same schedule in my previous lab, and in my lab prior to that, I worked 7-3:30 every day. In all of these instances, I negotiated for the altered schedule after I had been at the job long enough to prove my worth.

I live about an 1 hour 15 minutes away from the barn with no traffic (I live very close to work); when I worked 7-3:30, my home was about halfway between my work and the barn (work to barn was also about 1 hour 15 minutes). This is in NYC and Atlanta, respectively, so I know a couple things about traffic. Before having the altered schedule, I sucked it up and dealt with terrible commutes in order to ride. You do what you have to do.