New pont cart~ What do I connect the traces to?

[Sara417]

New PONY cart lol

Hello all,

I had been driving my pony, Pete, with a small easy entry cart that had a single tree with sword ends to connect the traces.

Well, I just got a new (to me), bigger pony cart and it doesn’t have a single tree! I am lost as to if a piece is missing or ? In the corners, where the shafts attach to the cart, there is a small hook on each side, but it is blocked by a support bar, so that cant be how the traces connect, right? (Hope that makes sense!)

I don’t have a close up pic, but here are a few, if you can make out how to connect my traces I would really appriciate the advice! (The cart in question is the bigger one)

Link

Thanks!

[goodhors]

Sorry, the hooks are indeed where the traces are attached. I think they are made to hook from below, reaching up under the reinforcing bar.

You could remove the singletree from the other cart, put it on the new one. You really NEED a singletree for breast collar harness. Singletree allows movement of the harness with the pony shoulder, so he does not get sores.

Please check all the metal VERY carefully. These vehicles are prone to metal fatigue, people bending parts back into place, particularly the shafts. Sometimes that part just…breaks off causing wrecks. Check all the welded places, see that welds have not broken loose or cracked apart. Make sure all bolts and nuts are in place, tightened down, axles greased.

Do please read the post on Heavy Duty Spoked Wheels and look at the photos they added. VERY important to know this stuff. Read the WHOLE thing for all details.

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251450

You have the same tires shown in the photo, so you do not want to recreate that accident. Air-filled tires on spokes may lose their edge seal, come off the rim. Sometimes with that bike axle setup, the whole axle comes off the forked brackets.

Small pony carts are not the best designed, whoever makes them. Just cute and cheap. Best used on hard surface or inside a groomed arena. Field driving is hard on them, usually will flat the air filled tire, or fold over the whole wheel, as shown. HOW you drive them is a big factor, and bumpy ground can flip you right over in a heartbeat. Doesn’t matter how big you are, if cart bumps UP, you are probably going on over and out, you can’t hold cart seat down. Carts like yours are not made for bumpy ground.

[Drive_NJ]

Yes - with your new cart - it IS just those little hooks under the corner support brace for attaching the traces

this is not the optimal arrangement as there is no swing and the traces/breast collar will rub the front of the pony and you will feel more of the pony movement in the cart (side to side swing)

look at how your old cart has the singletree attached and see if you couldnt ADD one to the new cart
the wood ones are not that expensive

http://easyentrycart.com/
Look at how their singletree is attached
there is a piece called a Singletree Yoke
(kind of like a big C)
this attaches to a crossbar
the singletree rides in the middle of the C
then a king bolt goes thru from top to bottom to hold in the singletree and allow it to swivel

You also want to look olong the underside of the shaft for some kind of loop for holding the breeching in place
those would be holdback irons or footman loops

Lastly, check out the seat and floorboards carefully. This looks like it may have spent some time outdoors and you’ll want to make sure the wood is sound - the seat looks saggy to me, but it could just be the camera angle. Make sure you address any rust as well.

You can get a lot of the carriage parts thru Witmer Coach Shop in PA
717-656-3411
7-5 daily and only til 11 am on Sat
no Sunday hours

[Sara417]

Thanks a bunch guys! I had considered removing the single tree from my old cart, but it seemes too small for him (not wide enough) I am going to look into purchasing a new single tree for this cart.

[Drive_NJ]

Original post is from DNJ2… I’d like to add

• please check metal for rust and fatigue and address it anywhere its found

• please take a good look at the seat. It looks saggy and could have spent some time outside with the cushion holding water against the wood base. The base is usually plywood that isn’t too fond of standing water so you’ll want to be sure its firm and strong.

[Thomas_1]

I’d encourage you to have a huge rethink… I’m not sure I’d say it’s a good idea to just buy a swingletree.

It looks like flimsy and poor construction and I’m thinking you’re best advised to not use it and get something else.

To be honest if you came to me to ask me to sort it for you then I’d frankly tell you that I think buying and fitting a swingletree on it is a waste of money and time! It wants scrapping or using just as a training cart for when you put horses to harness and when you’re long reining anyway and not actually sitting in it.

Take a good hard read of this and think carefully about what you’re putting at risk:

http://www.chronofhorse.com/forum/showthread.php?t=251450

[Sara417]

Thanks for the advice! I desperatly wish I could afford a 2000k+ cart, but I cannot.

I am rebuilding this cart to use. I am convinced, however, to go with NON wire spoked wheels. I will not be driving it until I can get better wheels.

My husband is a welder and is going to stress test all the welds on this cart.
Here is a link to pictures, I deconstructed the cart last night.
The frame is sturdy, just looks crappy now.

[pegasusmom]

For what it is worth, I purchased, last fall as a starter, a lite n ez cart from Country Carriages in western North Carolina. It is very well built, very comfortable to drive in and was a little over $1000 brand new.

[Sara417]

That Lite N’ EZ cart is really nice! That is definetly something to think about saving towards…

Its a hard year this year with my husband being laid off and on unempolyment since last November…

Mortgage on a 5 acre farm, gas to commute 25 miles each way to my $12 an hour job, trying to keep the dream alive! A horse to ride and a pony to drive! I will make it! Somehow!
I will not lose my farm! (probably wont be able to buy a $1000 cart though! Lol!)

[butlerfamilyzoo]

Sara, i feel your frustration! I’m the one with the busted up cart in the other post. I can tell you that right now i am ground driving and saving every penny towards a new cart and really hoping to save up enough for the Pacific Smart Cart, i really like it. Seeing it in person, it makes any easy entry cart i’ve ever seen (not that there are not good ones, but i havent seen them) look like cheap junk.

Dont put yourself, your pony, your kids, your family, or anyone else at risk with a cheap cart. I’ve learned the hard way and thankfully, no one was hurt, but it is not an accident we want to relive here, and i sure hope others learn from our mistake.

[Thomas_1]

To be brutally frank, seeing the cart “deconstructed” makes me want to assert again that you’d be better advised not to use it!

Long rein, long rein and long rein.

If your husband is good with metal work why don’t you persuade him to undertake a project and do some research re carriages and buy some plans and some steel and get building…

[horsegeeks]

I’m very sorry, but I agree with Thomas. The cart does not look sound enough to use.

Perhaps if I saw it in person, I’d change my mind. But the pictures are very worrying. Driving is a sport where you can’t take any short cuts in your equipment a quality harness and cart are essential. Notice I didn’t say expensive or “name brand” … just quality.

We’ve been able to find two high quality used road carts at great prices. The one we thought was in the best shape, turned out to have rotting under the patent leather on the shafts. So we’re replacing the shafts. Even with that expense we are paying far less than we would for a lesser quality new cart.

We’ve also considered following Thomas’s advice and getting decent plans for a metal cart and having a good friend build it for us. However, we’ve simply kept an eye out and found great deals in what I really wanted.

Please remember your and your pony’s safety are involved and don’t take any short cuts in quality.

Be safe!

[goodhors]

Um, sorry, I would say no, to building your own cart, unless you are very driving experienced.

Many of the vehicle plans I have seen, are just “off”. Proportions not quite right. You have to have the correct dimensions, to make a vehicle come out for correct fit of animal, good balance with passengers inside.

Thomas is VERY experienced with a lifetime of looking at GOOD vehicles by the best makers, past and present. He has trained eyes, is a driver himself, so getting a design for building a cart would be pretty easy for him. I see MANY homebuilt vehicles and they don’t come out well.

He could copy the carts you have, but then you just have a new metal cart of the less-desirable design. Not an improved model cart.

[Thomas_1]

I maybe should have been clearer…

I meant a PROPER project and I meant to undertake qualitative proper research and buy proven plans.

I’d never ever suggest that you just head off and copy something that you don’t know is good or bad.

Place to start to research is some good books that are of the sort that are actually used by carriage builders:

You can’t go wrong with John Thompson’s books and plans:

HORSE DRAWN CARRIAGE CONSTRUCTION by John Thompson
Carriage construction and design with section on making a dog cart with dimensions for 12 - 16 h.h.

THE WHEELWRIGHTS TRADE by John Thompson
Illustrations and extracts from early trade journals.

You can also still buy a lot of his original plans in republished format.

or else

COMPETITION VEHICLES by Walter Lorch
This book collates and presents knowledge of marathon and presentation vehicles, their construction and maintenance. It assists readers to understand the purpose and working principles of the components, to choose the right vehicle and maintain it. Numerous diagrams, charts and photographs.

or

19th Century American Carriages - Large format paper back, illustated with b+w & col photo’s, published by the Stony Brook carrige museum in U.S.A. The full title of the book 19th century american carriages their manufacture, decoration and use will give you a good idea of the social and commercial history of the carriage and what sort for what purpose.

For more general research and information the likes of:

LOOKING AT CARRIAGES by Sallie Walrond
Valuable reference work and ultimate guide to carriages dating from 17th century to the present day. Profuse colour and black and white photographs with text dealing design, manufacture, history and interior fittings of each vehicles.

Start with the above in terms of primary research and then get out and do some secondary research looking at vehicles only once you know what to look out for and to run away from!

In my head “Project” and “Research” and “buying plans” all mean DO IT PROPERLY… NOT “have a go”.

It’s the proper preparation and planning that will make or break what is done.

Or to put it another way, piss poor planning leads to poor performance !