New Question - Ovation vs Pessoa? Stupid-wide saddles with foam panels?

[pattnic]

Had the opportunity over the weekend to try the XXXW gullet in a Pessoa on Stupid Wide… seems like it might work. The question, however, is this:
Are Ovations built on the same tree as the Pessoas (in terms of curviness front-to-back and balance)?

Continuing to look for a saddle… slightly different aim at this point. I am looking to lease out one of my horses and would prefer to send a suitably wide saddle on lease with said horse, as I don’t want a potential lease put out by needing to now find a stupid-wide saddle and I don’t know that I really trust a leasee to actually find something stupid-wide enough - “Oh, it’s a wide (or Bates, etc XW)? That’ll work.” No, it won’t.

Furthermore, though I am generally not a fan of foam, in this particular case, I think the lower maintenance of foam might be better. Again, I don’t really want to have to rely on someone else to make sure the flocking is maintained. Or course, I’m on a budget. Let’s keep it $1200 or less?

Horses fit perfectly into an XW County Conquest and a 40cm Duett Presto is a reasonably good fit (not as good as the County, but certainly acceptable).

I don’t know much about Thornhills, though I thought some of them had foam panels? Yes? No?

And if I found a Tad Coffin for a song, might it be worth trying? What is in those panels, anyway?

I know some Prestiges are foam - that might work; would just be a matter of price and stupid-wide-enough-ness. Probably difficult in my budget.

I’m not ruling out wool (particularly something lower-maintanence) entirely in this instance, especially if I can find a suitable Smith Worthington or Duett for a steal… but I just really don’t know if a stupid-wide foam panel saddle at a lower price point exists.

[TrakHack]

Do you need the “hoop tree” shape? If not, the Ovations with the XCH gullet system may work and they do have Bayflex foam panels.

I live in a total wasteland for saddle fitters and prefer foam panels. My Norwegian Fjord goes best in the Wide Ovation/Pessoa plate, but I also have the XW and XXXW plates. I don’t love the plates above size XW because there’s a bit of a dip on each side like the Wintec plates, and the angle is not consistent.

[Bristol_Bay]

I just happen to be looking for a Barnsby saddle, and this ad popped up for a 40 cm Duett.

http://cnj.craigslist.org/spo/4019911676.html

Maybe they will ship?

[vxf111]

Tads are not “stupid wide.” I have seen crazy wide hoop tree Black County saddles.

[GreyDes]

How about the Smith Worthington Mystic? It’s the Argentina line, wool flocked, and under $1200 new.

It’s one of the nicest saddles I’ve seen in that price point, and I bet they can make it crazy wide for you.

[vxf111]

Throwgood?

[jn4jenny]

pattnic, once you get into that “stupid wide” zone + that budget + the demand for foam, there’s just not a lot to choose from. Most price-friendly options for wider horses are wool panelled, and that includes the hoop-treed stupid-wide options from Thornhill (like the Berlin AP or Germania Spring). You’ve also exceeded the width of most exchangeable gullet systems, so your remaining choices are…

–Ovation/Pessoa XCH saddles with the XXW or XXXW gullets. The Ovation Competition Show Jumper is actually a great foam-panelled saddle for the price, and if you found a suitable used one, this could bring you in well under budget. The Ovation Evolution is a decent choice too but with its sorta cheesy doubled-leather build, I’d probably choose the hardier grain leather on the Competition Show Jumper for a lease horse.

–A Tekna A-series (not the user-adjustable S-line series) or Prestige adjustable saddle. Honestly, my real concern here is that a horse who wears the County Conquest or Duett Presto probably has a fairly flat topline. And I would not describe the Tekna A series or most Prestige saddles as “flat.”

–The Wintec Wide AP.

–Find a rare bird, like the occasional stupid-wide Passier foam-panelled jump saddle or the (even more rare) Smith Worthington Mystics that were oh-so-briefly made with foam panels.

[mswillie]

I have two Thornhill saddles (Vienna II dressage and the Germania Spring) and they are both wool flocked. My horse, who is quite a bit wider than average wears a medium in both the dressage and jumping saddles. I can’t imagine how wide the x-wide saddles are.

I really like them and I think that for the price you get a nice, decent quality saddle. Worth checking out to see if one will fit your horse.

[HunterJumper_3]

I’d probably go hoop-tree. Take a couple out on trial/test-rides and see how they fit?

[wishfulthinking711]

I like the tads. Not “stupid-wide” I believe we had a Black County come in recently with a hoop tree measuring around 5.75"…yeah “stupid wide!”

[GoForAGallop]

Yep, grab a Smith Worthington…the Mystic happens to be on sale right now, since they did a redesign: http://www.smithworthington.com/index.php?p=product&id=701

Have them stretch it out as far as you need, adjust the wool panels once, and you’re good to go. Or write it into your lease contract that either you or the leaser forks up the $100 once a year to have the saddle fitter out just to check on the wool.

[tidy_rabbit]

OP, I still have mine…

[vxf111]

You’re buying them a saddle. Doesn’t seem so unrealistic for you to require as a lease term that they shell out a couple hundred bucks once or twice a year getting it checked/reflocked.

[Brutus614]

Check out Albion – my saddle from them is “stupid-wide” at almost 7" dot to dot. I got it used, but in your price point. Might be worth it to see if they have a dealer in the area?

[Kitt]

About the only saddles I’ve run into with foam panels that work well for really wide horses are the Lauriche saddles.

[RugBug]

I would say my 18" Tad borderlines on stupid wide…which is a shame because I didn’t buy it for a stupid wide horse. I have heard that the 18" and up ride a lot wider than the 17.5" down. Don’t know if that is true as I don’t have the money to try a 17.5 and I technically need the 18". I have tried two 18" and they both seemed very wide.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=RugBug;7177665]
I would say my 18" Tad borderlines on stupid wide…which is a shame because I didn’t buy it for a stupid wide horse. I have heard that the 18" and up ride a lot wider than the 17.5" down. Don’t know if that is true as I don’t have the money to try a 17.5 and I technically need the 18". I have tried two 18" and they both seemed very wide.[/QUOTE]

Maybe seat size does matter? I tried a 17.5 It measured a hair under 4.5 dot to dot. Not only do I not consider that “stupid wide” (good term), I don’t even consider that WIDE.

It sat like this…

http://s5.photobucket.com/user/vxf111/media/Tad%20Coffin%20Saddle/SaddleOnSomerset.jpg.html

(higher in the front than the back because it was too narrow)

On a horse who went in a MW Jaguar and a M Ideal. It was also too small for me. And back then only came in one “tree size that fits all horses” and was too A shaped. And a bunch of other reasons. BUT… it wasn’t stupid wide. New ones may differ and bigger seat sized may differ… but I’d be hesitatant to even explore this option for a stupid wide horse.

[RugBug]

[QUOTE=vxf111;7177695]
Maybe seat size does matter? I tried a 17.5 It measured a hair under 4.5 dot to dot. Not only do I not consider that “stupid wide” (good term), I don’t even consider that WIDE.

It sat like this…

http://s5.photobucket.com/user/vxf111/media/Tad%20Coffin%20Saddle/SaddleOnSomerset.jpg.html

(higher in the front than the back because it was too narrow)

On a horse who went in a MW Jaguar and a M Ideal. It was also too small for me. And back then only came in one “tree size that fits all horses” and was too A shaped. And a bunch of other reasons. BUT… it wasn’t stupid wide. New ones may differ and bigger seat sized may differ… but I’d be hesitatant to even explore this option for a stupid wide horse.[/QUOTE]

Well, my experience has been that the two 18" seats I tried are quite wide. Mine is a 2007 so, prior to the different tree options. I would love to be able to compare it to a 17.5", but that probably isn’t going to happen. Horse fits nicely into my trainer’s fairly narrow Delgrange, and was previously ridden in a 17.5" Tad. Previous owner is taller than me and maybe a little thinner, which could affect things, but I tried her padding solutions and the Tads I had were too wide with those options. I had to buy the thickest TC leather pad (it’s a wither relief and close to an inch thick) to get the saddle close to fitting. I was willing to bet on a TC because of horse’s previous history and because the TC’s are standard design which makes it easier to buy the exact thing that was used prior.

[pattnic]

Thanks, all for the replies - jn4jenny in particular, as we all know how knowledgeable you are!

I didn’t really think Tads were really stupid wide, but I couldn’t remember for sure and I haven’t seen one in person lately. Perhaps seat size does make a difference, but going to an 18" seat I don’t think is going to work, regardless.

The horse in question has some curve longitudinally, but is rather flat laterally. The horse is definitely stupid wide but still a little more A-shaped; it seems we are basically on the cusp of needing a hoop tree. At this point, having tried Black Country in addition to Duett, a hoop tree just isn’t quite the right fit (this is not to say that a hoop tree might not work in the future… but right now it just doesn’t seem the best).

I’m not keen on the Duett route - the saddle was passable, but was off just enough that I don’t really want to sink the money into a new one. Used for a song I could maybe swallow, but definitely not first choice.

I’ve not yet had an opportunity to try a Prestige or Tekna on the horse, so I can’t say for sure whether it would be too curvy for him. According to ERS, the changeable gullets allow for a wider fit than the Prestige-treed saddles. I don’t know that I buy it… but I also don’t know where I’d find an A-line Tekna on which I could do a trial, especially if the tree would have to be bumped out.

I hadn’t realized the Pessoa/Ovation XCH saddles had gullets up to XXXW (and unlike the regular Bates/Collegiate/Wintecs, the “regular” Pessoa/Ovation XCH saddles could accommodate the XXXW gullets). I actually really like the Ovation saddles for the price, so this may be an option.

So it seems that for foam, Ovation (or Pessoa) XCH is probably my best bet. If that doesn’t work, however, then I’ll have to go with wool and figure out something for maintenance. Smith-Worthington and Thornhill are definitely options in that regard (Duett if it is an absolute steal)… and realistically, are probably the better options.

[vxf111]

[QUOTE=RugBug;7177740]
Well, my experience has been that the two 18" seats I tried are quite wide. Mine is a 2007 so, prior to the different tree options. I would love to be able to compare it to a 17.5", but that probably isn’t going to happen. Horse fits nicely into my trainer’s fairly narrow Delgrange, and was previously ridden in a 17.5" Tad. Previous owner is taller than me and maybe a little thinner, which could affect things, but I tried her padding solutions and the Tads I had were too wide with those options. I had to buy the thickest TC leather pad (it’s a wither relief and close to an inch thick) to get the saddle close to fitting. I was willing to bet on a TC because of horse’s previous history and because the TC’s are standard design which makes it easier to buy the exact thing that was used prior.[/QUOTE]

This SHOULD NOT be the case but I have seen Tads from the “one size fits all majick” era that clearly, clearly measure different widths. In the same tree size. I don’t know what to say about that but I’ve measured them myself.

Also, I don’t know how to quite describe this but they seem to wear very differently. I have seen some that almost seemed to expand in tree size over time? And others that didn’t.

Out of curiosity, dot to dot how wide is your 18?