Seems sort of an oxymoron for people to get all up in arms for suggesting a top rider might not be perfect, that all top riders are absolutely infallible and that unless you ride at their level, you may not criticise them
HuH? I have not seen any posts that claim Anky or any other top rider is perfect. Not any at all. I think people see what they want to see…
[QUOTE=egontoast;4658564]
HuH? I have not seen any posts that claim Anky or any other top rider is perfect. Not any at all. I think people see what they want to see…[/QUOTE]
Right, well I guess I am forming my opinions upon what I see, though I maintain an open mind as I continue to mould said opinions. In the case of Anky reining, I see a horse with a gaping mouth and an improper use of aids and body. Whether that is due to inexperience or whether it translates over to her dressage, that is a matter of opinion. The possiblity (or non) is there though. I also see a lot of these top riders using the Rolkur frame excessively. Whether that is truly detrimental to the horse or not - I guess we will have to see more studies. I personally disagree with it (excessive use), however I am open to new information.
If Anky is not perfect, then why the flaming? Maybe, just maybe, she makes mistakes too? Maybe I am right? Maybe I am wrong, too, but I just feel that a top rider in dressage should be able to ride a reining horse a little better than she did because the two disciplines are very much the same. Like I said though, I am not criticising her person.
Anky doesn’t really have problems with halts. I’ve watched her halt many times.
If I couldn’t be perfect, I’d rather blow the halt than forward.
[QUOTE=slc2;4658578]
Anky doesn’t really have problems with halts. I’ve watched her halt many times.[/QUOTE]
Great, then my point in regards to halts is moot and the conversations earlier discussing her halts are not valid (though obviously some would beg to differ that she does not have problems with the halt - I am not saying she does though, I really have not been watching her studiously or in person).
My point really was just a point to consider in general I guess. I just found it interesting and thought it could possibly relate to an alleged problem with her halts. Like I said, not flaming Anky here, just making a point. If others disagree, that is fine. We are all entitled to our own opinions 
http://horsesforlife.com/PositionsOfTheHead/
go there, and read. This is studied by my friend Nancy Nicholson-she has done extensive studies on rollkur, and simply finds it very damaging to the horse-and not necessary!
Please see above for pics
Face Behind the vertical, neck contracted (not the position for “long and low” or “rollkuer”).
The poll is no longer the highest point of the topline and there is overstretching of the nuchal ligament behind the poll. If the neck is contracted, the last four cervical vertebrae shift slightly back relative to their original position, decreasing nuchal and supraspinous ligament stretch needed to “lift” the withers. Muscles attached to the hyoid apparatus are strained, along with the brachiocephalicus muscle. The windpipe is cramped at the larynx where it passes through the hyoid apparatus between the jaws, restricting ease of breathing in extreme cases. Lifting the tongue to the roof of the mouth provides some relief from strain on hyoid to sternum connections, but makes faults with tongue likely. The top three or four segments of the serratus in the neck are overstretched. This posture does not help gymnastic development.
naturalequus, in your opinion, she sucks I guess.
No one is stopping you from expressing your opinion so similarly others are allowed to have a different view.
I don’t know much about reining but I don’t think she’s got it down either. Someone who knows more about may challenge me on that !
I’ve never understood this thing where if you challenge someone’s opinion they claim they aren’t permitted to express an opinion. 
Looks like you can say whatever you want and other people are free to agree or disagree with you.
[B]Anky doesn’t really have problems with halts. I’ve watched her halt many times.
Great, then my point in regards to halts is moot and the conversations earlier discussing her halts are not valid. [/B]
There’s no reason to snit. It’s not important if you agree with me. It’s important that people express their views.
I watched her halt a number of times in warmup. Over and over and over. Then she went out in the competition ring and didn’t halt. It looked like a choice. She and Sjeff SAID it was a choice.
If the horse was getting claustrophobic in the competition ring, as some more seasoned horses do, sometimes there is a compromise the rider makes to better the overall score. Insisting the horse stay on the spot and getting even worse scores on submission?
Most of those pros probably wouldn’t do it. They know how to compromise with what they have to work with on a given day.
I’ve watched other top riders do same. Creep forward in the piaffe, let the pirouette be a little big on a day when it feels like horse might get stuck, and especially blow off a halt. Even riders who don’t do rollkur do this all the time.
I’m not saying I love how Anky rides or that I would emulate it. I’m talking only about halting in a test.
You don’t think I’m right? Good. Post about it. I will be eager to read about your ideas. Us agreeing doesn’t define whether the discussion is useful.
[QUOTE=egontoast;4658601]
naturalequus, in your opinion, she sucks I guess.[/QUOTE]
Oh, so that is my opinion is it?? Thank goodness you are here to clarify my own opinion for me! Phew! Without you, I never would have known! :lol: Just let me get back to you on that, just gotta check with MYSELF to see if that is my opinion. Oh! Nope! In fact, I said the exact opposite. Now, all joking aside, do not twist my words egontoast.
I’ve never understood this thing where if you challenge someone’s opinion they claim they aren’t permitted to express an opinion.
Well, I felt with the harsh responses that I was obviously not permitted to express my opinion, for fear of repercussions by others such as yourself, egontoast.
[QUOTE=slc2;4658602]
There’s no reason to snit.[/QUOTE]
Oh I wasn’t, I was serious. If she in fact does not have problems with the halt, then obviously the ‘insight’ I provided really bears no weight on her halts specifically, that’s all. My argument as per her halts is rather moot I do feel that perhaps it could relate still to her overall riding, but that is not something I am willing to discuss here and I would like to further my education prior to making a concrete decision or opinion there.
[QUOTE=MassageLady;4658591]
http://horsesforlife.com/PositionsOfTheHead/
go there, and read. This is studied by my friend Nancy Nicholson-she has done extensive studies on rollkur, and simply finds it very damaging to the horse-and not necessary!
Please see above for pics[/QUOTE]
Interesting.
well, now you have gone back and edited your opinion so it’s a little hard to carry on the conversation.
[QUOTE=egontoast;4658641]
well, now you have gone back and edited your opinion so it’s a little hard to carry on the conversation.[/QUOTE]
I have never edited my opinion, though I edit my wording at times so that I come across clearer and how I had originally intended. It is difficult to carry on a conversation when someone fails to read posts or jumps to conclusions as to others’ opinions and intentions.
I think people see what they want to see…
Apparently the hear only what they want to hear as well.
To those of you who feel this testing is a step in the right direction and more testing should be done - GIVE UP POSTING HERE. Those who either train Rollkur or feel it’s A.O.K. will just keep beating on you and your opinions or observations until you stop posting.
My personal opinion it’s bad sportsmanship to just not even do one of the movements in a test and figure ‘screw it’ - just do what you do well. I feel if you don’t even make an attempt at a movement it should be a ZERO. But I’ll let the cat-fight gals on here go for my eyes on that one.
PLEASE - if you ride/train using ROLLKUR - stand up and proudly tell everyone so those of us who breed and sell horses make sure we don’t sell on to you. THANKS
I feel if you don’t even make an attempt at a movement it should be a ZERO. But I’ll let the cat-fight gals on here go for my eyes on that one.
Seems to me you could express that opinion equally well without calling other people names.
naturalequus - welcome to COTH 
there is a certain segment of our lovely little world that loves nothing better than to harang posters no matter what they say. i have found the best thing to do is put those negative nellies on ignore. makes it a much better place
fwiw, i have greatly enjoyed your posts and honesty.
[QUOTE=slc2;4658578]
Anky doesn’t really have problems with halts. I’ve watched her halt many times.[/QUOTE]
Anky doesn’t have problems with the halt, the people who can only judge this tiny part of the complete test, because their knowledge is very limited, have problems. These are the same people who don’t understand that sometimes you have to keep the flow in your horse to get the 9’s and 10’s in the rest of your test.
“Updated”. Doesn’t say much. http://www.cavallo.de/medizin/neue-studie-zur-rollkur-liefert-alarmierende-ergebnisse.386954.233219.htm
Just read the “update” and agree with Alicen - it doesn’t say much.
First of all there are only a handful of horses and we don’t know their level of fitness, or whether it varied from horse to horse. Secondly, they were lunged with side reins where there is no give and take. All “conclusions” are assumptions made by the different “study” attendees based on some limited findings when using the portable endoscope and then thermal photography.
Not exactly rocket science…
[QUOTE=alicen;4683543]
“Updated”. Doesn’t say much. http://www.cavallo.de/medizin/neue-studie-zur-rollkur-liefert-alarmierende-ergebnisse.386954.233219.htm[/QUOTE]
did you read all 5 pages ?
can you give an english synopsis?
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