New style “anatomical” bridle craze?

[Willesdon]

The phrase “bridle lame” has also existed for generations. “Old fashioned” does not automatically mean “useless”. An ill fitting bridle will cause evident body problems.

People spend a fortune fitting saddles and it is now exceptionally rare to see horses with white spots on their withers, caused by poorly fitting saddles, that I recall from my (distant) childhood. However, today I frequently see poorly fitting bridles, with e.g. over tight nosebands, buckles resting on pressure points, browbands too small and bits to high/low. Too many people do not appreciate the importance of fitting a bridle correctly and too many people don’t know how to adjust the bridle to fit.

Essentially, a bridle hangs a bit in the mouth and all the rest is about education and training.

[Blueeyedroan]

@Willesdon

browbands too small

YES!!! ^THIS!

I see so much of that , English AND western. Drives me insane.
I view it as a chance to buy a pretty, sparkly brow band …. In a larger size.

[JB]

@Willesdon

too many people don’t know how to adjust the bridle to fit.

omgosh, the number of people who think proper adjustment means 3 wrinkles in the lips is just mind-blowing. Wrinkles are a by-product of a properly situated bit.

[Blueeyedroan]

Some of the western style bridles (I want to say bosals especially) where the cheek piece is MAYBE in inch under the eye …… that’s like nails on a chalkboard to me. Makes ME automatically blink when I look at it.
Some horses seem unbothered by it I’ve witnessed a lot of irritated blinking in others.

[Spudsmyguy]

I can’t stand seeing western riders with their bit hanging low in the horse’s mouth saying the horse is supposed to pick it up and carry it. Most of them lack knowledge of the shape of their horse’s mouth and how to fit the bridle so the bit isn’t banging on the front teeth. One gal I knew had a smaller framed Arab and her bit was so huge in diameter, the horse couldn’t close its mouth and she had it cranked so high up it looked painful. No wonder the horse had a bad attitude.

[JB]

@Blueeyedroan

Some of the western style bridles (I want to say bosals especially) where the cheek piece is MAYBE in inch under the eye

Yes, that is one reason many of the anatomic bridles sit much lower - not just because of nerves or blood vessels, but to get out of the periphery of their vision

@Spudsmyguy

I can’t stand seeing western riders with their bit hanging low in the horse’s mouth saying the horse is supposed to pick it up and carry it.

Seriously yes, if they want to hold it a bit, that’s fine but can you imagine how tiring it must be to HAVE to hold that so it doesn’t clank your incisors?

The whole ignorance around bit fitting is insane. “Thick is kind, skinny is cruel” entirely ignores mouth conformation and the hands attached to the reins. .

[Blueeyedroan]

@JB

“Thick is kind, skinny is cruel” entirely ignores mouth conformation and the hands attached to the reins. .

OMG!!! Yes !!! I have yet to find a horse that doesn’t go better when I put them in a thinner bit. Usually in the 16-14mm range.
I ride a lot of OTTBs with small mouths and low palettes. They don’t WANT a fat chunk of metal in there it impedes their comfort.
Nice thin-ish French link , usually a “JP Curve” which lies nicely in the mouth. Works wonders.

Here’s another marketing thing …. I get with most horses better results with my $45 JP Curve Korsteel bits than I did with the $280 Sprenger bits.
Actually sold all but one of my Sprengers and put JP Curves in my bridles.
Marketing isn’t always accurate .

[sweetsalute]

@Blueeyedroan

Here’s another marketing thing …. I get with most horses better results with my $45 JP Curve Korsteel bits than I did with the $280 Sprenger bits

I bought a Sprenger many years ago. Pony did seem to like it well enough and go better. Today she goes the exact same in a double jointed Korsteel loose ring. Maybe as she’s gotten older she doesn’t care, maybe the Sprenger helped with something initially, maybe it was all in my head! The sprenger is now for the young horse. It’s all she’s been ridden in, it seems to work well enough for her and I may as well use it.

Re the bridles, I personally detest the look of the anatomical bridles. I’m a big fan of a how a classic hunter bridle looks. Clean, elegant and simple (I also hate thick nosebands and cranks for the look, never used one) Having said that, if I had a horse who was delicate about it and an anatomical bridle made a clear difference, well yeah I’d use one.

One horse is in a plain, raised cavesson, loosely adjusted. She happily sticks her head in the bridle so I figure she’s alright with it. The other does go in a flash, but loosely adjusted. It certainly doesn’t tie her mouth shut (or pull down the cavesson which is also not tight), but she seems to find comfort in the flash, perhaps it provides some support to the bit. Said horse also needs a pony sized bridle and full size browband.

[Texarkana]

@Turntable

@Texarkana

Something I think is really amazing is how we now take a horse’s comfort into consideration.

I know we used to put all our horses in the same flat saddle with the same size tree while wearing the same bridle and bit. Some of our horses thrived, others protested. We deemed the latter group “naughty” and “for experienced riders only.” If they were too bad to be useful, they were knackered.

Eh, I grew up in Europe, Every horse and pony had it’s own fitted saddle with wool flocking. We learned to fit nosebands below the cheekbones and above the soft part of the nose, and how to place the buckles and bit and how to size the browband to avoid rubs and pinching in the first stages of Pony Club at age 6-8. We learned how to fit martingales, girths and saddles pretty soon after. We didn’t use drops etc unless needed and even then not all the time and they were properly fitted and checked. I never even saw a bit other than a plain eggbutt or loose ring snaffle or a double bridle until I came to the US. I still don’t own one. Let’s not say that no-one ever did this, the knowledge was certainly available and widely applied in many places.

I think the anatomic bridles are quite good and interesting and certainly many horses like them. I know people who swear by the crank nosebands but I have never tightened a noseband to the point I couldn’t fit 1-2 fingers in it in my life and I’ve survived so it might be a moot point for me.

Oh I don’t disagree! I didn’t mean “the same” quite so literally. Also, I did not grow up in Europe. But what I meant was that for many years we had fewer options in terms of tack. Horses more or less all went in the same style tack with simple modifications to improve fit and performance. And for a lot of horses, it worked.

But old horsemanship manuals are also filled with remedies for problems we rarely see today: saddle sores (less frequent now), fistulous withers, cold back, poll evil, etc. I’m sure that predominantly due to the shift from working animal to pleasure animal, but I don’t doubt healthier animals with better fitting tack also reduced those burdens.

I believe there is a distinction between “gadgets” and options that improve comfort. You mentioned bits and double bridles: I think we probably agree that a lot of bits are gadget-like in the sense that compensate for holes in training. But at the same time, the fact that you can buy a loose ring snaffle in such a wide variety of mouthpiece shapes to accommodate different mouth conformation is a win for everyone in my eyes. The rider’s job is easier if the horse is comfortable in the bridle. Something like a crank noseband, if you are cranking it, then that’s a lot more “gadgety” in its use. Yet a bridle that reduces poll pressure is making the horse more comfortable.

[sparkygrace]

Here is a good scientific view of properly fitting nosebands:

Effect of Noseband Positioning to Fascial and Neural Dynamics of the Head

Disclaimer: I bought a new anatomical bridle for my fussy horse. We’ll see if it makes a difference.

[Red_Barn]

SO interesting. Thanks for posting that, @sparkygrace

I see that this article - which I’d tend to trust, as it’s not part of a marketing campaign - directly contradicts the one above, which claims that lower nose bands create less pressure.

This one in, in fact, comes to a very conservative, old school conclusion:

"The low positioning like with a drop noseband seemed to have the most restricting effect if tightened as it then restricts the gliding function of fascia and can press nerves even directly."

Regular positioning typical for simple cavesson fit seemed to have the least effect on the facial nerve and the fascia."

No wonder this stuff is controversial!

[equinelibrium]

Another thing to keep in mind is that there’s a lot more variation in type/build of riding horses now than there was in the past. People wouldn’t have been caught dead riding large drafts/draft crosses back in the day. Cavalry horses were bred to be a similar shape so they could use the same tack. That’s why cavalry horses were able to use those super narrow McClellan saddles without too many issues. We have a much wider description of “riding horses” nowadays and the market has caught up to that in saddles. I think we’re just seeing the equivalent in bridles.

I understand your struggle though. Like you, I prefer the look of an old school classic hunter bridle. My SO does historical re-enacting and both of us would like to start doing some cavalry re-enacting. So I can appreciate the old school, if it ain’t broke don’t fix it, approach, but I also see the benefit of using new ideas/technologies to make life better for us and our horses.

@JB

If you’re using a noseband to tie the mouth shut, you’re doing it wrong. Their intention is to keep the horse from gaping his mouth and potentially allowing a cheek piece to get into the mouth. That’s the other end of the spectrum of strapping it shut. Some setups are also designed to help keep a horse from crossing his jaw and evading your hands.

I’ve heard that the reason for a noseband is to protect the horse’s lower jaw in case their face hits the ground, so their lower jaw doesn’t get pulled back and broken. I’m having a hard time picturing a cheek piece getting caught in the mouth, especially in such a way that a noseband would prevent it happening. Can you explain how that would happen?

[Willesdon]

@equinelibrium

My SO does historical re-enacting and both of us would like to start doing some cavalry re-enacting…

I’ve heard that the reason for a noseband is to protect the horse’s lower jaw in case their face hits the ground, so their lower jaw doesn’t get pulled back and broken.

I suspect many stories are invented to explain the inexplicable and unknown.

The cavesson noseband is derived from military bridles. The cavalry, for practical purposes, used a bridle that could be changed into a head collar simply by removing the bit. The attached lead rope could do a secondary job of providing some small protection of the horse’s neck from sword strikes. The Mounted Police here in the UK still use chains as lead ropes on their daily work bridles. I believe the name “cavesson” is French for “head collar”. Obviously, if this is correct, then the noseband had nothing to do with controlling the horse.

If you look at old images of horses in sport, such as racing and hunting, you will frequently see bridles with no nose band, even on double bridles. “Good hands” used to be the accolade given to a finished rider. A double without noseband was a massive signal of superior skill, similar to a finished bridle horse in the Californian tradition.

[JB]

@equinelibrium

I’m having a hard time picturing a cheek piece getting caught in the mouth, especially in such a way that a noseband would prevent it happening. Can you explain how that would happen?

it may be that the origin of the noseband is different.

Some loose rings and racing D cheek pieces, for example, aren’t very large, and if you’re hauling on one rein and the horse totally opens his mouth, a loose ring especially could be pulled into the mouth

In the case of this show, all three times the ring on the second side was actually disappearing into the horse’s mouth.
Uneven Bit Pressure - Dressage Today

[SuzieQNutter]

AFAIK for the Australian army horses it was a curb bit with a drop noseband. This was because a lot of horses with a lot of nonriders so they had a set up which let them be controlled with less rider injuries.

[equinelibrium]

It’s funny you mentioned that because it’s exactly what I was thinking! I even looked up old foxhunting paintings. Almost all of them show horses with no nosebands, which was surprising to me since we normally consider a flat cavesson traditional foxhunting attire.

Thanks for the explanation @JB! That’s what I was imagining but I can’t see how a noseband would prevent that from happening.

[Jackie_Cochran]

There was a day long, long ago when riders and horse drivers were rated by their hands. There was none of the “oh, I never need to use the bit” while hauling back on it in the name of contact by riders, a GOOD horseman was supposed to have light, responsive, sensitive and either naturally good or educated hands. Of course not every horseman had such hands, but the ones who did were looked upon as being MUCH BETTER RIDERS (or drivers.)

These riders, both men and women, did not need nose bands because their horses did not go around with open mouths most of the time. In fact nose bands were rare unless needed for other purposes than keeping the horse’s mouth shut, like for a standing martingale or in harness to keep the bit ring from being pulled into the horse’s mouth if the horse rebelled (it can be harder to control a horse from six feet behind the horse than from their back).

I don’t use nose bands. With the ways that MS can affect my hands I NEED my riding teacher to tell me whenever the horse opens his/her mouth so I know that I am using my hands too harshly. This is not a common occurrence, and I want to know right away if the horse objects to how I am using my hands. It is so much safer for me that way.

Now I just need to find two anatomical double bridles (cob and full size) without a darn nose band so I can reserve my Micklem bridles for the snaffle or Kimberwick bits. It would be really neat not to have to use a bradoon hanger.

[soloudinhere]

I’m baffled by someone going on about quiet, educated perfect hands who simultaneously needs to find a bridle for a kimberwicke.

[SuzieQNutter]

I have never heard of an anatomical bridle until reading it on this forum.

My bridle has a padded head piece with holes in it so if a noseband is added it goes through and above the headpiece so as there is no pressure on top.

It has a longer than usual throat lash as Stars has a very wide jowel.

We have not ridden in noseband for years. They are used to a noseband from the lunging cavesson.

They all have loose ring snaffles .

Hubby swore black and blue that he did not do anything with the reins for a downward transition.

Yes you are.

No I have not changed anything.

Sim says you are. The moment I say halt he opens his mouth and if you do something really bad he also sticks his tongue out.

This did not mean put on a noseband and tie his mouth shut.

It meant to teach hubby to halt with his seat and not pulling on the reins.

[Jackie_Cochran]

I have found 2 or three horses in my 50 years of riding who have “told” their riders that the Kimberwick is the only bit that they find acceptable for their sensitive mouths. One mare I had, “told” me that the Kimberwick was an acceptable substitute for a double bridle when I got tired of handling 4 reins for a while and she was reliably controllable with a gentle snaffle bit. I wanted our contact to be better and I found that she preferred the Kimberwick, she just relaxed her mouth and lower jaw better.

When I first get up on a new horse that comes to me with a spotty history (broke English or Western? Ever been trained to contact?) I find the Kimberwick a satisfactory first bit until the horse and I come to an agreement about hands and mouth. Then I can find a snaffle that we both like and which helps to give us good rides.

And I already have my Micklem bridles to use with snaffle or Kimberwick bits. I want to find an anatomic double bridle with an integrated bradoon attachment to the crown piece that does not make me waste my money on a nose band that I will never, ever, ever use on 99.999% of the elderly lesson horses I end up riding nowadays.