New style “anatomical” bridle craze?

[soloudinhere]

I have to disagree with your bitting theory that uneducated school horses “prefer” curb bits and double bridles or that it’s appropriate to use them.

Slapping a curb bit on a horse does absolutely nothing to teach them about contact and you’ve openly stated that your hands are not reliable and you need a teacher to tell you if the horse is gaping the mouth.

I don’t think the anatomical features of a bridle are a make or break component of this “solution.”

If you don’t need the noseband, you can make any crown piece a double bridle. It will have two integrated attachments and you simply need a second set of cheek pieces.

[Blueeyedroan]

Kimberwick for a first bit !? No. So much no. I can’t begin to comprehend why …?

For years I have been taking highly uneducated youngsters , fresh off the track, still fully track fit and fired up, and riding them out on forest service roads + literal bush trails.
In NOTHING but a gentle French link bit, usually without a noseband at all.
And I’m not dead yet so…… I just don’t think there’s any good reason to bit up an undeducated horse.
Your riding and reaction will be what saves you, not the strength of your bit. Often a strong bit can make things a lot worse.
As for western broke horses, I can guarantee you they were started in a snaffle too .

[Jackie_Cochran]

I only got into Kimberwick bits after reading and re-reading “Horse Control and the Bit” by Tom Roberts, where his description of the actions of the Cambridge mouth Kimberwick and the horses it helped sounded so much like the mare I mentioned above. I had to find a 4 1/2" Kimberwick which was not easy, a tack store had to order it for me. It was her favorite bit by far, NOT because it was “stronger than a snaffle” because it was not stronger than a jointed bit TO HER. The mare became much more reliable with contact and she kept her sanity when all hell was breaking loose around her because the bit did not hurt her mouth at all.

Right now I am using a double bridle on both of the horses I ride. After using the double bridle on these horses for a year both ladies told me that they did NOT want me to change my bridle, that these horses look happier with the double bridle, both horses have fewer problems with the bits in the double bridle, and these ladies just do not want me to go back to the snaffle bridle even though I am the only person using a double bridle at these stables. I do not own these horses, their owners have decided that their horses do better when I ride them with the double bridle.

If these horses decide that I am torturing them in any way with the double bridle or with any type of bit I can always go back to one of the six different types of bitless bridles I own. These horses have told me and my riding teachers that they prefer the bitted bridles to the bitless bridles with my hands and I am not going to argue with them. When these horses decide I can no longer do the bits I will change to bitless, but until that day I will go on enjoying my productive rides with the double bridle. Since I do not use a nose band my riding teachers can see each and every objection these horses have to my hands graphically, and both of them agree that their horses PREFER me using the double bridle, not because I “need” it to control the horses which I am perfectly capable of doing with snaffles of any type, Kimberwicks, Pelhams, and bitless bridles. These horses calmly reach out for contact without me using my legs a lot, they cheerfully keep contact throughout our rides, and they willingly obey my gentle, well timed rein aids while remaining calm. These horses will even let me keep contact with just the curb bit calmly, keeping their noses stuck out properly for a Forward Seat horse, under the eagle eyes of my riding teachers. I do not do that every ride, it is just something I do occasionally for boredom relief.

The horses I ride have no problems with me using a double bridle. My riding teachers have no problems with me using a double bridle. They have no problems with the way I train the horses to keep contact, they have no problems with me keeping contact unless I am having a REALLY BAD DAY with my MS, and if I have a bad day I just ride the horses with loose reins. The first thing I train a horse I ride is how to obey me on loose reins and I try to spend approximately a third of each ride on loose reins, and the horses then willingly reach out for contact again when we get back to the more exacting work.

I just want an anatomic double bridle so I can change from my “made up” Micklem bridle as a double bridle with the bradoon hanger going OVER the crown piece instead of under it which looks rather odd but the horse’s comfort comes first. I think a bridle with an integrated bradoon hanger with the crown piece is an interesting idea I would like to try. If the horse don’t like it I will just change back to what already works quite well in the opinions of me, my riding teacher and the elderly lesson horses I get to ride, even if it does look rather odd to me.

[atr]

Not trying to rag on you, Jackie, but I don’t see how you can describe a Micklem as a bridle without a noseband? To me, it’s the absolute opposite. A lot of the control comes from the noseband pressure in the Micklem and much less from the actual bit itself (particularly with bit clips in use, that’s what makes it good for a sensitive mouthed horse with a rider with less steady hands.)

I do think it’s a nice bridle on the right horse, my old man went very happily in one, but I’m not visualizing how it can work as a double, either, with the placement of the noseband and chin strap. I’ll have to go back and look at it again!

[Jackie_Cochran]

I cut the chin strap off the Micklem bridle, part of the reason my set up looks so odd.

It took me a while before I understood that the horses DID prefer the Micklem bridle, until I buckled the chin strap (and I always make sure I could get two fingers clearance), then the “sour” faces started until I unbuckled the chin strap.

So it may look like I have a noseband on but it is just the top part of the Micklem nose piece, the chin straps are in a plastic bag waiting for the day that I decide I need them again. It has been years now since I took the chin straps off and I have never missed having them, and the horses I ride are much happier with me.

I was all excited about the bit clips with the Micklem bridle. I eagerly put them on for the mare I rode then who had the most sensitive mouth of any horse I had ever ridden. She virulently HATED the bit clips and started flinging her head around so I would realize that she was serious about how much she disliked them. Without the bit clips, and without the chin strap she really liked the Micklem bridle with the snaffle bit I used on her.

I wanted to ride with a double bridle again. I had to talk both ladies I ride with into it. It helped that I had already introduced 3 or 4 horses to the double bridle by then, so they let me try it. The ladies I ride for NEVER told me to stop using the double bridle on their horses and these ladies have always been willing to tell me NO about a particular snaffle bit (often a bit advertised as gentler, the horses I ride did not agree with the ad copy.)

I pass the bradoon strap through the brow band loops and I run it over the crown piece, depending on the handy elastic strap on the top of the crown piece of my Micklem Multi-bridle to keep it off of the horse’s poll. It looks odd, it looks messy, but it works for me and the horses I ride since I do not show. If I showed these horses it would be a different story.

But I would like my bridle to look a little bit more conventional, thus my interest in possibly buying another type of anatomical bridle for a double bridle.

And as a side note the horses I’ve ridden in the years since I started experimenting with bitless bridles and the Micklem bridle have clearly shown me that THEY DO NOT LIKE ME KEEPING CONTACT WITH THEIR FACE with a noseband (Micklem bitless form of the Multi-bridle, Dr. Cook’s bitless, the LG bitless, my ancient jumping cavesson bitless bridle, the Spirit bitless bridle and the Light Rider bitless bridle, I tried them all). Keeping contact with the bit is usually fine.

[J-Lu]

I stil use my Sprenger silver “training bit” on my current horse. It seems to work well. Will likely try a titanium bit int the future, very differen that this, but this 14mm bit seems to work well on several horses.

My previous horse was freakishly opinionated about bits. I ended up purchasing this bit for her because she objected to the bits I used previously. She had a thick tongue and a low palate, I understand her objections. She needed a bit larger than her measured mouth (very thick lips) so it sat on her tongue rather than pressing on her tongue. Oh, she objected to bits that pressed her tongue;
Many trainers thought the bit was too long, and it technically was (it’s a 3 part bit) but she liked it more than the plethora of bits I tried. I ride my current horse in this bit. He has a very narrow mouth and the diameter (14 mm?) seems to work for his bold yet insecure self. As a younster, I rode with thicker bits. And there is room to “play” because it is long, and he responds well to the play as needed.

I plan to have the bit fitter out, but I’m not sure 1 ride will be indicative of what he’ comfy in. The bit fitter likes bit more fitted to the mouth with less play, so we’ll see/

[blue_heron]

I think @Jackie_Cochran’s set ups are interesting from a purely scientific perspective. I don’t think she is advocating that everyone replicate this. Obviously everyone has different needs and not everyone has the time to explore. Though, I can’t understand why anyone would turn a Micklem into a double bridle, it seems like you are depleting the purpose of a Micklem completely.

I do know horses that were more comfortable in curbs, even when the curb was completely loose. All were nervous gelding types that needed the stability and needed clarity on where exactly to be in order to feel secure in the work.

[Jackie_Cochran]

What I pick up from the horses, both geldings and mares, is that just having the curb in the mouth reduces confusion. My hands can feel the horse’s tongue “consulting” both bits (one at a time), then they obey my rather light and well timed hand aids on the bradoon. It is sort of like the horses “want” a “second opinion” about what my hand aid means for sure.

In a thirty minute ride I might tweak my sagging curb rein once or twice during a ride (immediate release), never fully engaging the curb in that the curb chain does not tighten against the curb groove, or if by my clumsiness the curb chain does tighten against the curb groove my immediate release removes any pressure the curb groove may get. Basically all I am doing with the tweak is saying “yes, I did give you an aid, this aid is not an accidental aid,
and it would make me happy if you obey this rein aid to slow down.”

I have come to a tentative conclusion. Using a snaffle for all hand aids–slowing down, turning, collecting or extending, means that the horse has to use a split second to decide, from my seat and legs, exactly what I am asking for. With the double bridle I can use the bradoon for contact, turning, and a slowing down aid and the horse seems to act like my hands aids are much clearer to them and the horses seem more confident that they are obeying my hand aids correctly. Currently I only use the curb to indicate to the horse that it might be really nice if he moved some of his weight off his forehand for a while, previously I did use the curb as an emergency brake (briefly) at a full gallop but since I am no longer galloping around in the field or on the trail I no longer use the curb as an emergency brake.

If the horses indicated in any manner, shape or form that they did no like my rather odd double bridle set up I would change the bridle before my next ride, in consultation with my riding teacher of course.

I check with these ladies regularly about whether the horse shows any anxiety about the double bridle or how I use the reins, and they both tell me that the horses look happy, happier than they do when I rode them in just a snaffle bridle. Neither lady wants me to change back to just using a snaffle on my Micklem bridle. They both have also told me that I am the only rider at their stable that they would let use a double bridle, odd but true considering how badly my MS has crippled me.

The Micklem bridle avoids the facial nerves which means the horses are much less irritated by the bridle. The double bridle bits (titanium) bring them clarity while also giving the horse something to “play with” in their mouth. Because the bradoon hanger goes over the crownpiece the Micklem crownpiece can work as designed and if I do use the curb bit stronger the padding on the Micklem crownpiece helps to ameliorate any extra pressure I might put on their poll if I fully engage the curb bit. Because of my odd reins (odd for a double bridle) I can make sure that my hands are even on the reins which reduces confusing rein aids, and my riding teacher has an easier time telling if one of my hands if off by an inch or two from its ideal position on the reins (and believe me, she will tell me to fix my hands!)

My riding teacher and I fully discussed everything about my odd set-up before I put it on a horse. She is happy with me, the horses seem to be more cheerful with my rein aids than they are with a snaffle bridle, and I am happy because both my riding teacher and the horse are happier with me.