New to Pleasure Driving! Meadowbrook vs Road Carts

Hello everyone!

Recently I have gotten back into driving and am getting a lot more serious about it. I currently have a little training cart to get by for now. It’s perfect for what I need and for just strolling around the property with. I’m hoping to get an upgrade for shows. I’m super new to pleasure driving and I haven’t been able to find a good resource on different carts.

Seems like the two I can find the most info on are meadowbrook carts and road carts. I’ve seen a lot of meadowbrook carts floating around on FB Marketplace (more so than road carts). My biggest thing with meadowbrook is that people call them death traps. With that being said, should they be excluded from my search? Are road carts superior to meadowbrooks in terms of safety? Are there other types of carts I should keep an eye out for that would work well in pleasure driving?

Some insight into my situation…

I have a 14 year old AQHA mare that’s western pleasure bred. I intend to show at local shows that offer driving classes or driving shows that are hosted by my state’s driving club. I reaaaally want to get into driving more, but also want to be realistic and just I want to show for the sake of showing. Currently my husband’s aunt is helping me out with training my mare. She’s been driving for a very long time and has mainly driven drafts.

Im not looking to buy anything right at this moment. I’m just taking my time and doing my research! If anyone also has any suggestions to books that I can get my hands on to learn more about pleasure driving, please let me know!

Thank you!

Meadowbrooks are a dime a dozen because even if you exclude the death trap feature (which you cannot, because they are), they are just a pain in the ass to get in and out of. You need to flip the back of the seat down into the seat, get in from the rear, sit on the seat backwards and then lift both legs up and over, doing a 180 to find yourself sitting in the seat forward facing. Stand up, put the seatback up, sit back down. The death trap part comes from needing to do this quickly when things are going sideways. In short, they are best suited for tall bendy bouncable children or Olympic gymnasts. Not for mortals.

You have someone experienced working with you so you are way ahead of the game. In a perfect world a gig with swan shafts would be ideal, but if you focus on something that fits and balances to your horse AND you can easily get in and out of, life will be good.

That said, don’t rule out a spider type vehicle (4 wheel). For CDE drivers there have been a lot of technology advances that make presentation vehicles safer and more competitive in the cones phase (front, back, 5th wheel/turntable brakes and delayed steering). But there are a whole lot of really nice older presentation vehicles that only come with a rear brake. You just about can’t give those away to people who compete in CDEs. Even more so if it has brass trim. And a brass trimmed harness will also be a bargain, comparatively speaking.

The challenge here is transportation of said vehicle, but honestly, sometimes those big carts are harder to fit in the trailer than something with removable/adjustable shafts and a turntable.

Good luck!

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A Road Cart will put you higher behind the horse than a Meadowbrook. This lets you see ahead of horse for excuses to spook or things to avoid. Seat is above the shafts, entering and exiting ease can vary between builders. Easy Entry has shafts under the floor or ending at cart front. Other models will need you to step over the shafts to get to the seat. Meadowbrook is a lower seat, BETWEEN the shafts, which can make you crane your neck sideways, to see in front of the horse. They can be a bit easier to get into, but involve seat flipping up and down to pass between seat halves. Because you are lower, they can be difficult to exit QUICKLY, should you need to.

Horse NEEDS to be rock-solid standing, to allow you getting in. Shafts of ANY 2-wheeler will go up and down during entry and exit, pivoting on the axle with weight changs as you move in the cart. Even seated, moving body forward or back changes shaft weight on the horse saddle.

What kind of carts or carriages do you see at the local shows? Probably lots of 2-wheelers because they take up less room, are easier to handle by yourself. Do you know the width of trailer inside the walls? 2-wheelers are usually wider for stability, may have hubs that stick out, to make fitting it inside more difficult.

We have a gooseneck stock trailer, 18ft on the floor. Horses in front, cart or carriage behind center door. You can put cart shafts up over the center door and tie them down for travel. Hauling a 4-wheeler the shafts must be removed, then slid in under the carriage for hauling. Do tie things down well, so carriage is not bouncing, messing up paint and wood. Every bounce is doubled with springs above the axles if not anchored well.

You will probably want to start with a wooden 2-wheeler, be similar to others at the local shows. Natural varnished or painted are both good choices. Draft folks tend to have BRIGHT colors on their vehicles, often the Farm Colors in yellow, purple, bright blue, etc. The bright colors can be hard to match, keep looking good, compared to darker colors and natural finishes. Know your horse’s size, body length, where level shafts are midway up the body from the ground, to prevent getting vehicle too tall or short. The ADS has a chart of lengths and heights for shaft fit to look at.

4-wheelers are out there! Despite advertising, very few are “the only one lIke it” or extremely rare. You will want to wait a bit, get better trained as a driver, horse should have more hours, driven to be obedient to you, before hitching to a 4-wheeler with your beginner horse. You will want to look for a cut under vehicle, which makes turns easier. It might have “a reach” which are wood pieces underneath body, helping hold front and back end together. Front wheels will go under body about 75 degrees, not a full 90 degrees. A full 5th wheel allows front wheels to turn way under the body and nothing to stop them. Very handy unless horse won’t go forward and jack knifes the vehicle. The ride is MUCH better with 4 wheels, you get no bounce from the shafts as horse trots. Just that 4-wheelers are a step taken after you and horse are good, she is obedient EVERY time, confident when out with the 2-wheeler.

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Are you planning on showing in Pleasure Driving classes? If that is the case, regardless of the breed I would recommend a two wheeler of a basket type, like you would use at a QH show. It’s sort of the standard with a lot of breeds, for pleasure driving, Arabians, QHs, Paints, Saddlebreds, Hackneys and minis.

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I’m not a fan of Meadowbrooks because of the folderol needed to get in & out.
That said, it is the favored vehicle of my Club’s 85yo President. :woman_shrugging:
I’d go with the Easy Entry, painted wood or natural finish for showing.
The Graber/Jerold style cart recommend by @jvanrens is common at breed shows, but with no back, not comfortable for long drives on trails or roads.
This is my (mini-sized) Easy Entry Road cart I show in:


& This is the Easy Entry I drive on trails.
I had the standard bench seat replaced with this single seat. Very comfy with the armrests ,& cupholder :smirk::

& This is one I covet :star_struck::

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Lawnmowers or carts, it is ALWAYS about the cup holders!! A good cup holder will sell the vehicle! Ha ha

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I started my driving career 22 years ago with a Meadowbrook and drove a 13h welsh pony to it and loved it. I had no issues getting in and out of the cart, could easily see around him and found it to be a comfortable cart.

My husband drove the sire to the pony I’m driving in the top 2 pictures to one as well over 30 years ago and had no issues with it until he drove a 4 wheeled vehicle of course (but that didn’t happen until about 20 years ago now). The stallion was a tough drive and after 2 roll overs (though they were not the stallions fault), they retired him from driving once his son was old enough to drive.

We now have larger ponies and drive to several different 4 wheeled carriages (pleasure carriage with no breaks and marathon carriage with breaks). But I still have the meadowbrook and remember using it for years and being very happy with it. The pony I drove to it was only 6 at the time but he was very sensible. I always had someone head him when I was entering the carriage as that’s when its most critical for sure. So as long as you have some help when you get into the carriage and you have a steady and sensible equine, don’t overlook a meadowbrook.

doulton4
Pasiant2

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My only carriage was a Meadowbrook. Drove it put to a lovely Paint mare, who unfortunately is not longer with us. Hard to believe it will be 3 years this Friday.

Lovely pics, DJ. Think the first one is at the Royal, before the ring was changed. The second pic, do you remember where that was. The Pinto in the background looks like a friends from years ago, but if that was just a pony class, he was a horse.

Always enjoy your posts. Are you driving at the Royal this year? Good driving!!!

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Yes, the first picture was at The Royal Winter Fair back in 2006. The second picture was at Sutton Fair and it was an Open Pleasure Driving show, so horses and ponies were in the class (it might have been Lisa Foster, but I’m not 100% certain. Most of the horses in that class were CDE horses/ponies as we also did a racing derby later that day. I know the horse in the front is driven by Aileen Gibbs (Mike Gibbs wife), if you know of any Ontario drivers). It was close to 20 years ago now…The picture of the stallion was either at Walnut Hill or The Canadian Carriage Classic - the only shows the stallion really showed at, but it was before my time (over 30 years ago now).

The pony I was driving we still have and he will be 28 years old in the spring. He is retired but totally sound, we just don’t have a job for him and have 3 other ponies that I’m currently working :slight_smile:

This will be the first Royal that our family has not shown since 1967 (this was sadly pointed out to me the other day!). I did qualify one of our ponies but decided not to enter. My husband and I decided to take a year off (first time for us in 22 years) and the other parts of the family decided not to show as well. We did go down to watch one of our ponies go in the Medium Hunters on Friday (he was 4th, 7th and 10th with his kid!) and plan on going back down next Friday to watch the Welsh Ladies to Drive though. We are lucky that Toronto is only about an hour away from us so we can sort of still be a part of it and say hi to our local and not so local friends!

Unfortunately there are only 2 coaches this year showing at the Royal :frowning:

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@cabz - I just noticed the top picture in 2006 was when the Royal ring was redone. It must have been fairly new as I have a picture of me from 2002 in the hunter ring as it was the “old” ring. Its been so long, I forgot what it used to look like! I do remember it being really distracting as people walked by before they dropped the ring. Now that the ring has been “lowered”, people tend to walk around their eyeball height but it surprisingly doesn’t seem to bother them as much. Its always fun riding the 3 year olds in there for the Cup classes though as everything is wow to them ha ha!
Old ring:


New ring:

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No, I don’t that is Lisa. Her pony, was chestnut and white, unless she had another pinto before I knew her. Vaguely knew Aileen, she was a friend of a friend. Met her a few times. I think that might the lady I knew, was driving her pinto Jake for a few years. I am in Ontario. My mare and i retired 11 years ago from showing, but did most of TCCA, COPDA now OCDA. I just did pleasure driving. My mare was a dark brown Paint that i showed Single Horse. Boarded at Beaverwood.

Yes, you are right about the ring at the Royal. Old age and gray hair is my excuse!!!

Nice that your family’s ponies are doing well. Enjoy the Welsh on Friday. I have decided not to go down to the Royal, have not been since 2018? It has changed so much???

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@cabz - The Royal has changed over the years. Shorter of course (used to be a full 2 weeks), shopping has changed quite a bit and a lot of the equine booths have stopped coming (there are still a few of them, just a lot less) and its more like a flea market, with booths selling pots and pan, cleaning supplies, scarves etc. More of that type of shopping now.

Show entries are up and down with the horses. I was surprised to see so many hackneys this year! Large driving classes which is great to see!

Beaverwoods will be down there for sure and I always love talking to and meeting Kirsten and Kilby. We see them at some local driving and welsh/sport pony shows all year and enjoy chatting with them.

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I don’t plan to show pleasure driving with AQHA at the moment. We’ve had a hard enough time showing against the HUS horses under saddle. My mare, being western pleasure bred, just doesn’t have the natural talent that the judges are looking for in HUS bred horses. She’s super cute in the equitation classes though! :rofl:

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Sorry for responding late, my husband and I have been doing some house projects. Thank you all so much for the replies! This has been a very helpful thread for me! I do have another question…I’ve also been looking at antique carriages. Would you say judges prefer carriages over carts or is it a toss up? I understand that there are some classes dedicated to 4 wheels or 2, but if you’re in a class that has both do judges tend to like carriages more? Again, I’m super new to this so hopefully I’m making sense. :sweat_smile:

I rarely have access to a Header.
Always at home & even on the rare occasion when I show, I’m a 1-Woman operation.
So the extra care necessary to get in a Meadowbrook - as lovely as they look - doesn’t appeal.
A Club friend advised me early on to have my mini facing something solid he can’t step forward into as I harness & then get in my cart.
He’s sensible enough to stand “Whoa” for me after I take off the halter/lead attaching him to that solid object (fencepost, hitchrail, trailer) & stay standing as I get in.
His first command is then “Back” a step or two, then pivot & off we go.

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@2DogsFarm - Oh I totally get it. A lot of people do not or can’t get any help when hooking/driving. I’m lucky to have a husband who works similar hours to me and we only drive if we have help from each other. If not, I just ride alone instead.

@TheQuarterGirl - I’m not a judge, but from my own opinion from showing, a judge will not really prefer one over the other. As long as your turnout is correct, the horse is comfortable and moving well, it makes no difference if its a 2 or 4 wheeled vehicle (unless there are say 2 equal turnouts, a decked out 4 wheeled carriage may place over a 2 wheeled cart, especially in a turnout class where the actual turnout is judged heavier). Its hard to beat a 4 wheeled carriage with groom, full collar (correctly fitted), lamps etc, but they are heavier and not as easy to maneuver as a 2 wheeled cart.

Each have an advantage over the other. You can go through cones much quicker and turn better in a 2 wheeled cart compared to a 4 wheeled antique (especially if its not cut under), plus a cart is much lighter (not that a QH would have much issues pulling a 4 wheeled vehicle, but still). So you could place better in cones classes, cross country and even the working or reinsmanship in a cart if the classes are driven correctly (each show will say the breakdown of each class and let you know what the judge should be looking for).

A cart is not as comfortable for the driver, I find it more “bouncy” and jerky moving you back and forth. I much prefer the smooth ride of a 4 wheeled carriage (we have a couple of phaetons and I just love the way they drive), but I do feel after a long class in deeper footing, my pony has to work harder and its harder to get a strong trot out of him - he tires much faster even though he is CDE fit. We purchased a smaller 4 wheeled phaeton where I don’t need a groom and the carriage is about 400lb lighter (so its 500lb + lighter without an added groom as well, but you lose the safety factor) than our other 4 wheeled phaeton that requires a groom. I find he moves much better with this carriage and I love the way it drives and handles (it has no breaks and the front wheels are more narrow than the back wheels so its amazing in cones classes).

The Royal Winter Fair was just on (Welsh Pleasure driving show) and there were lots of gorgeous turnouts from fully decked out 4 wheeled phaetons with full collars and grooms, to 2 wheeled road carts and a cob hooked to a 2 wheeled cart was the Grand Champion. She moved well, had a lovely, but country (correct) turnout. Clearly the judge didn’t mind (she was from the UK so has seen many different turnouts) and placed the best moving and correct pony to win several classes.

If you are strictly doing pleasure shows, just be aware that some judges are against breaks and will hit you in turnout classes (trust me, I love breaks and think all 4 wheeled carriages should have them for safety reasons. We actually had one of our phaetons built from the ground up and opted for breaks even though we were going to use it for pleasure classes as well). I have had judges tell me right out that they would never place a vehicle with breaks in turnout and especially never for the Concour D’Elegance. It never bothered us though as we like safety over ribbons, but I just wanted to mention this. We did purchase a used phaeton that was built for pleasure shows and it does not have breaks. Our pony has been driving for years now and is a steady eddy, so I feel comfortable driving him now to this carriage that has no breaks and I don’t take a groom with me anymore.

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Question from a rider: What exactly are the “breaks” you are talking about? especially as part of the turnout/ style of the 4 wheel carriage?

Pretty sure they mean BRAKES.
For a cart usually not needed.
For a 4-wheeled carriage they help, not by breaking to stop, but they prevent the carriage from running into the horse on a downhill grade.
On a Marathon vehicle they are a necessity as you’re traveling at speed, around sharp turns.

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4 wheel vehicles (marathon and presentation) have up to three brake pedals, rear, front and 5th wheel/turntable brakes. (I’m guessing break was a voice to text Oops)

Rear brakes are the minimal requirements, especially on marathon where you are on variable terrain. You use them constantly to help the horse going down hill, using The brake to keep some of the weight of the carriage off the breeching. There are dozens of other uses, holding a halt, keeping the horse comfortably in draft when there are dips and rises in terrain and so on.

Front brakes are less common but very useful in some moves, especially sharp 90 degree turns, but they’re considered useful only for experienced people because if you hit the wrong brake pedal, you can literally flip the back of the carriage over the front.

The 5th wheel brake is my best friend. It locks the shafts in place. It creates fantastic free walks on the diagonal, exceptional reinbacks, stabilized high-speed turns in Marathon and while it won’t make a crooked horse straight up the center line, it doesn’t hurt either :rofl:

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I suspected she meant ‘brakes’, but didn’t want to assume I knew everything about driving!