I guess it’s appropriate then that their new initials will now be USE.
I don’t mind paying for the streaming and certain information but I do hate for the results. I help sleuth through ads for my friend and look up lots of records for her but currently am out of the showing circle and not a member and it annoys me to have to pay for something that is free a lot of places (that type of information) and I do think the suspension list should be free. No a $25 fee is not much-but its more about how it makes one feel to pay for it vs the actual amount.
For those cranky about putting results behind the paywall - just want to make sure I understand your logic.
You value USEF enough to rely on competition results posted by shows governed by the organization, on a website paid for and run by the organization, but you don’t value the organization enough to pay them for access to this information?
Just checking.
[QUOTE=snaffle635;9007780]
For those cranky about putting results behind the paywall - just want to make sure I understand your logic.
You value USEF enough to rely on competition results posted by shows governed by the organization, on a website paid for and run by the organization, but you don’t value the organization enough to pay them for access to this information?
Just checking.[/QUOTE]
Well, I have a membership, so personally, it’s a moot point.
But from the point of a view of a parent shopping for a kid’s first horse, doesn’t know much, but is told horse’s show name is Super Star, it’s won all over the place, check out the USEF results! They know enough to know the USEF is the governing body, but maybe don’t have a membership yet, because kid doesn’t have a horse to show yet. Yes, those of us who show regularly know there are other places to look, like state associations, Horseshowing.com etc, but for the first time buyer? Non-horsey parent trying to do their due diligence? It’s not so obvious.
Same reasoning with wanting to keep suspensions public–you want people to be able to find things out about a person before doing business with them. Not that those are easily searchable now, but IMO, should be.
Should total noobs shopping for a kid’s first horse have some help, like a trainer with access to the USEF records?
Anyway, if these noobs can find the website, they can certainly read and understand that it costs $25 to access. If they think it’s worth it, they can pay.
I get that we all enjoyed having the data for free. But it costs money to maintain the database and I don’t think it’s unreasonable to pay a small amount to access it and other benefits.
I don’t know if they changed but for the longest time APHA records weren’t free. I wasn’t a member and I sent them a check for $20 get my horses’s records printed out. Lots of newspapers are behind a pay firewall. I don’t think it’s so out of line.
It was nice to have it for free but now it’s not. And I don’t think that’s so unreasonable?
^^^Good point vxf111. When I bought a car I paid for an online subscription to Consumer Reports so I could get their vehicle information. And unlike USEF I had to be very careful that it didn’t auto renew.
Alright, a Canadian chiming in on this.
Personally I’m beyond annoyed that Monday night I went to watch the two flatwork sessions from the GM clinic, but realized I should put it off until Friday when I have the time to watch them. I have time tonight, and found I needed to pay. Yup, I’m totally peeved.
Some of what Kessler is saying however actually does interest me. I don’t show in the states, nor do I plan to in the near future, so frankly I would rather not bother with a fan membership as I do not feel the need to spend 25$ on USEF. Kessler mentions that he would add more educational videos. Does this mean more clinics? Such as the Robert Dover clinic (which I am dying to watch somehow)? If so, then I would pay the 25$.
If there are not more clinics or clinic-type videos, however, and just livestreams of competitions, then no I’m not interested in the slightest. Heck, I only ever used the USEFNetwork for GM, Rolex, and the National Dressage Finals.
Just my two cents, from up north.
[QUOTE=kboned;9007870]
If there are not more clinics or clinic-type videos, however, and just livestreams of competitions, then no I’m not interested in the slightest. Heck, I only ever used the USEFNetwork for GM, Rolex, and the National Dressage Finals.[/QUOTE]
If you watch those three competitions every year on USEFNetwork, that works out to $8.33/competition. The GM clinic is spread out over what - three days? So that one alone is $2.78/day. I don’t know how many days the other two competitions cover, so I can’t do that math for you. If you aren’t willing to pony up what amounts to chump change that can likely be scrounged up by searching your car, your couch cushions, last year’s winter coat pockets, or the dryer, then you might want to re-evaluate how important those competitions really are to you.
I think this is kind of like when kids turn 18 but are still living with their parents and they are told it’s time to start paying rent. They’re all, “WHAT? THIS ISN’T FAIR YOU’RE SO HORRIBLE HOW CAN YOU DO THIS TO ME I’M NOT PAYING YOU ARE YOU NUTS I’VE LIVED HERE ALL MY LIFE FOR FREE AND NOW YOU WANT ME TO PAY YOU???” Time to take off the tiaras, princesses.
ynl063, I also said I can justify paying 25$ if there were more videos such as clinics or more educational videos with top riders like Kessler has stated in his video. No, I can’t see the worth only watching those 2 competitions and the GM clinic for 25$. It was merely my two cents on the situation.
[QUOTE=kboned;9007914]
ynl063, I also said I can justify paying 25$ if there were more videos such as clinics or more educational videos with top riders like Kessler has stated in his video. No, I can’t see the worth only watching those 2 competitions and the GM clinic for 25$. It was merely my two cents on the situation.[/QUOTE]
It’s fine for people to state that what is being offered is not worth $25/year to them. It’s the part where many are complaining that they should have to pay at all that is rubbing me the wrong way.
I wouldn’t pay $25 to see Beyonce in concert, but I’m not going to complain that she charges $25/ticket (or whatever) and stomp my feet about how unfair it is that she isn’t offering her concerts for free to people like me who don’t think what she offers is worth $25 but I feel like I deserve to see it for free because hey, I want to.
Canada beat the US for a change!!! We changed back to “Equestrain Canada” old/ NEW logo last summer. Membership dollars at work in both countries now!!
While a lot of folks may feel $25 is a drop in the bucket to receive the benefits offered, consider what it cost in membership fees at the beginning of last year for DD with ONE child jumper/eq horse:
USEF- $55
Horse for year if not lifetime registered - $75
USHJA - $85
WIHS - $40
NAL - $40
NCEA - $35
Maclay - $35
VHSA - $40
MHSA - $35
NCHJA - $30
SCHJA - $50
Zone 3 ch/aa jumper championship (just to have points count to qualify) - $50
EAP consideration - $50 I think? $550 fee to attend and $120 for facility
Total just off the top of my head? $510 just in upfront fees without being chosen to attend the EAP, $1180 if you are selected and go to EAP.
Of course the privilege of attending the EAP is worth the cost for the clinic/value received. I don’t argue that.
The rest of the fees/associations joined were just to have points count for the year for most of zone 3 and so she could actually compete at WIHS or Harrisburg if she had qualified. The zone 3 associations were so medal classes she did would count. She qualified for everything by May so the money wound up being worth it but then when horse got hurt and she sat out the rest of the year we wound up in that land where you had best laid plans and God laughed.
And so not to give the impression we jumped the horse’s legs off, she didn’t do every possible medal or jumper class (not even possible) at every show, it was strategic planning of do this here, do this there. Had he not gotten hurt she would have had her pick of which finals she wanted to do and we only would have done maybe 2 fall final shows. But not knowing at the start of the year what or where she would wind up really shining, we kind of had to join all of the various state associations along with the national stuff in order to ensure her points counted when she did specific classes.
I agree to some extent that if you can afford to do all that showing you shouldn’t complain about small fees, but those small fees add up quick and as a parent I would now have to have my own $25 membership to track my kid/horse points etc? Or make her share her password and account with me? It does rankle, I will say.
And for us, she was qualified for everything she wanted to do except staying in the top 40 for the WIHS Eq final and/or WIHS Child Jumper Championship class in 5 shows, which she had an “angel” supporting. So she wasn’t even going to show much between May-late August. And we were and are always on a tight budget, so the things we paid for like shoes/vet/blankets/shipping/cooler/sheet/scrim/bonnets/gloves did add up too like they do for any family.
I can’t imagine what it would cost to have more than one horse, just the one that we weren’t even fully supporting in the show circuit was as much as we could bear.
And had she wanted to really do the eq AND the jumpers seriously, there is no way to do that with one horse at shows with the scheduling unless you think it is okay to jump one horse 1.10m or higher in 5-6 classes for 3 days straight which I think is NOT okay.
PLEASE don’t anyone mistake this for complaining in any way, shape or form. It is not. We had the benefit of participating in a sport that is exclusive and both DD and I are fully appreciative of her time in the horse world. We have met lovely people all over the east coast and understand that to play at all was a gift. I just wanted to lay out how much it can run to join all those associations if you have a kid who is playing the jumper/eq game just for one season. It does add up.
I’m already a member, so the only impact I saw was that I had to sign in to access restricted material. I don’t see it as an issue. I started looking at some of the educational videos in the library. Pretty interesting to see our elite riders give tips and tricks. They aren’t (at least what I’ve seen) full blown clinics. They pretty short, but I think that is a good approach.
I do think we’ve been spoiled with the free access to everything. And since I’m already a paying member, it makes me feel like that membership fee now has more value. It’s almost like my subscription to the Chronicle. It drives me nuts when someone starts talking about an article that was in the magazine, and a non subscriber chimes in, “Can you copy and paste that? I don’t subscribe.” Um no, I paid for it because I value the content and want access. If you value the content, then you should do the same.
I’m already a member, so the only impact I saw was that I had to sign in to access restricted material. I don’t see it as an issue. I started looking at some of the educational videos in the library. Pretty interesting to see our elite riders give tips and tricks. They aren’t (at least what I’ve seen) full blown clinics. They pretty short, but I think that is a good approach.
I do think we’ve been spoiled with the free access to everything. And since I’m already a paying member, it makes me feel like that membership fee now has more value. It’s almost like my subscription to the Chronicle. It drives me nuts when someone starts talking about an article that was in the magazine, and a non subscriber chimes in, “Can you copy and paste that? I don’t subscribe.” Um no, I paid for it because I value the content and want access. If you value the content, then you should do the same.
Oh dang, I really miss being able to edit/delete posts. Sorry for the duplicate!
[QUOTE=alittlegray;9008015]
While a lot of folks may feel $25 is a drop in the bucket to receive the benefits offered, consider what it cost in membership fees at the beginning of last year for DD with ONE child jumper/eq horse:
USEF- $55
Horse for year if not lifetime registered - $75
USHJA - $85
WIHS - $40
NAL - $40
NCEA - $35
Maclay - $35
VHSA - $40
MHSA - $35
NCHJA - $30
SCHJA - $50
Zone 3 ch/aa jumper championship (just to have points count to qualify) - $50
EAP consideration - $50 I think? $550 fee to attend and $120 for facility
Total just off the top of my head? $510 just in upfront fees without being chosen to attend the EAP, $1180 if you are selected and go to EAP.
Of course the privilege of attending the EAP is worth the cost for the clinic/value received. I don’t argue that.
The rest of the fees/associations joined were just to have points count for the year for most of zone 3 and so she could actually compete at WIHS or Harrisburg if she had qualified. The zone 3 associations were so medal classes she did would count. She qualified for everything by May so the money wound up being worth it but then when horse got hurt and she sat out the rest of the year we wound up in that land where you had best laid plans and God laughed.
And so not to give the impression we jumped the horse’s legs off, she didn’t do every possible medal or jumper class (not even possible) at every show, it was strategic planning of do this here, do this there. Had he not gotten hurt she would have had her pick of which finals she wanted to do and we only would have done maybe 2 fall final shows. But not knowing at the start of the year what or where she would wind up really shining, we kind of had to join all of the various state associations along with the national stuff in order to ensure her points counted when she did specific classes.
I agree to some extent that if you can afford to do all that showing you shouldn’t complain about small fees, but those small fees add up quick and as a parent I would now have to have my own $25 membership to track my kid/horse points etc? Or make her share her password and account with me? It does rankle, I will say.
And for us, she was qualified for everything she wanted to do except staying in the top 40 for the WIHS Eq final and/or WIHS Child Jumper Championship class in 5 shows, which she had an “angel” supporting. So she wasn’t even going to show much between May-late August. And we were and are always on a tight budget, so the things we paid for like shoes/vet/blankets/shipping/cooler/sheet/scrim/bonnets/gloves did add up too like they do for any family.
I can’t imagine what it would cost to have more than one horse, just the one that we weren’t even fully supporting in the show circuit was as much as we could bear.
And had she wanted to really do the eq AND the jumpers seriously, there is no way to do that with one horse at shows with the scheduling unless you think it is okay to jump one horse 1.10m or higher in 5-6 classes for 3 days straight which I think is NOT okay.
PLEASE don’t anyone mistake this for complaining in any way, shape or form. It is not. We had the benefit of participating in a sport that is exclusive and both DD and I are fully appreciative of her time in the horse world. We have met lovely people all over the east coast and understand that to play at all was a gift. I just wanted to lay out how much it can run to join all those associations if you have a kid who is playing the jumper/eq game just for one season. It does add up.[/QUOTE]
It is a complaint and you make that choice of what organizations you join. Your kid better let you have her password to get into the USEF site afterall you do pay for it. You can also tell your kid no.
Equestrians must live in a bubble about other sports. Other National Governing Bodies for sports have similar systems for example USA Cycling. They have Race membership and Ride Membership. Race is for those who race. Ride is for those who pleasure ride and want to check out results from their favorite racers. Also AQHA charges a membership to look up pedigree and results on their site.
Not a member, have not showed in years. I personally do not have a problem with them requiring some low level membership fee to see show results. It makes sense. It is another thing they are giving you with your membership.
I think the list of suspensions and such should not require a membership fee because that is the type of information that people just starting out should be able to get with a quick google search.
I see restricting access to horse records and suspension lists as another step in making horse showing even more elitist and opaque. Free access to certain types of information benefits the sport and the horses. When I read on the other thread that a local trainer had been set down for positive drug tests, I was startled to go to the website only to find a firewall. I usually keep my membership active but haven’t renewed yet as I am not showing this winter.
In another example, my father (a racehorse breeder) was approached a couple of years ago by a woman about buying a share in a jumper. It took me about 30 seconds on the website to see that her claims about the horse’s record were false. Why would we want to make it easier for people to be defrauded when we know that it’s a big problem in the industry?
The Jockey Club has a nice balance between offering free access to information such as pedigrees and results while making users pay for premium reports. One could argue that the JC is in a unique position because the wagering public requires some of this data but other bits such as nicking reports are more of use to breeders. This encourages a wider group to take an interest in Thoroughbred breeding and racing.
The new website just leaves a sour taste in my mouth and only increases my disgust with the whole scene, which is why I’m sitting on a division pony who I can’t afford not to sell but am having trouble stomaching sending him back into that world and also giving my other two horses the winter off until I decide what will be the best path for them.
I don’t know. At first “read” I want to jump on the “it’s not fair” bandwagon. But upon further thought, I don’t think $25 is bad. I love to be able to watch the shows, etc. If you think about it, cable cost a whole lot more even if you mainly watch a few channels.
As far as searches, I guess you can either consider it a part of the PPE price, or just ask the seller, if they are truly legit, to provide the printout to you as proof. There are other ways. Yes, they can fabricate it probably, but I think on the most part you would be able to tell.
