Thank Denzel! That’s it!
The Balios Equisense device can be purchased by itself and attached to any girth/saddle combo: http://equisense.com/index.html
And here is the Horse Collaborative article if anyone is interested: http://www.horsecollaborative.com/isaddle-voltaire-worlds-first-smart-saddle/
I wonder if prestige is trying to something similar with their new X tree? It is supposed to have more flexibility for the horse as well.
Looks like a lot of fancy marketing to me 
And I LIKE Voltaire saddles. This just reeks of marketing hype to me. You know, this is the latest saddle that you MUST have or your horse will suffer “neurologic” problems.
Obviously I’m very interested in tree materials and design. I’m just not that convinced that this is something quite as revolutionary and fantastic as they are making it out to be.
I’m completely disinterested in the ride monitoring. Sometimes I track distance and speed on my iPhone with a running app (and I think there even is a riding app that will do the same). Also, I own a wristwatch with a stopwatch function if I’m doing fitness work with a horse, and I’m capable of reading how mentally or physically tired a horse is–that’s way more important than information an app can give you. Like most people, I judge how many jumps to jump NOT based on counting out a specific number, but by HOW the horse is jumping, and if we have met a training goal (or made a good effort and need to try again another day).
If I DID want ride monitoring, I’d rather have a device that clipped to my saddle that could be used on different saddles. I would NOT want some electronic device built into a saddle which is a piece of equipment that gets used in the rain, mud, snow, high humidity, on a sweaty horse, etc.
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8494150]
If I DID want ride monitoring, I’d rather have a device that clipped to my saddle that could be used on different saddles. I would NOT want some electronic device built into a saddle which is a piece of equipment that gets used in the rain, mud, snow, high humidity, on a sweaty horse, etc.[/QUOTE]
shadedingray posted a link to it at the top of this page, it looks you can get the device separately.
You bring up a very good point about how the saddle is used in different weather conditions. I wonder what safety measures they’ve taken to prevent it from short-circuiting. I’m not sure exactly where on the saddle it’s placed but can’t imagine any part of a saddle is 100% inaccessible if splashed at the right angle.
It says its connected so do you need to charge your saddle now… damn technologies are catching up.
Okay that just sounds weird having to not only oil but charge your saddle after every ride…If you’re saddle breaks you’ll have to send it to Apple before you send it to the saddle repair shop.:lol:
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8494150]
Looks like a lot of fancy marketing to me And I LIKE Voltaire saddles. This just reeks of marketing hype to me. You know, this is the latest saddle that you MUST have or your horse will suffer “neurologic” problems.
Obviously I’m very interested in tree materials and design. I’m just not that convinced that this is something quite as revolutionary and fantastic as they are making it out to be.
I’m completely disinterested in the ride monitoring. Sometimes I track distance and speed on my iPhone with a running app (and I think there even is a riding app that will do the same). Also, I own a wristwatch with a stopwatch function if I’m doing fitness work with a horse, and I’m capable of reading how mentally or physically tired a horse is–that’s way more important than information an app can give you. Like most people, I judge how many jumps to jump NOT based on counting out a specific number, but by HOW the horse is jumping, and if we have met a training goal (or made a good effort and need to try again another day).
If I DID want ride monitoring, I’d rather have a device that clipped to my saddle that could be used on different saddles. I would NOT want some electronic device built into a saddle which is a piece of equipment that gets used in the rain, mud, snow, high humidity, on a sweaty horse, etc.[/QUOTE]
I can assure you the tree is not marketing hype-- I have seen it with my eyes and its indisputable. Tad has spent 20 yrs designing this tree and he has finally done it. Every other sport from tennis racquets to golf clubs has equipment that has evolved using technology-- saddles have been built on basically the same tree for almost 100 yrs. Saddle makers have improved the comfort for the rider - changed the look and shape but the tree is the foundation and it hasn’t changed. It makes so much sense – Tad has done some groups where people have brought broken sore grumpy horses that people have essentially thrown away and by putting the saddle on the horse-- letting it stand in the saddle for 20 minutes --he will take the saddle off retest and the soreness is gone-- never mind when you ride its truly amazing. That’s why dr Madigan is doing more research – the results are undeniable. Tad has agreed to this partnership with Voltaire because he recognizes the opportunity to have more people experience this development in the brands they love.
[QUOTE=shadedingray;8493599]
Thank Denzel! That’s it!
The Balios Equisense device can be purchased by itself and attached to any girth/saddle combo: http://equisense.com/index.html
And here is the Horse Collaborative article if anyone is interested: http://www.horsecollaborative.com/isaddle-voltaire-worlds-first-smart-saddle/[/QUOTE]
I preordered when the Balios was on Kickstarter and I can’t wait to try it. A smart saddle seems like a saddle that can have more things go wrong with it… But it is interesting!
[QUOTE=hequestrian;8495131]
I preordered when the Balios was on Kickstarter and I can’t wait to try it. A smart saddle seems like a saddle that can have more things go wrong with it… But it is interesting![/QUOTE]
I’m very interested in the Balios sensor. When are you supposed to have yours? Do you mined me asking how much you purchased it for? You can PM me if you would like.
Fancy Illusions, thank you, I took a break in the middle of writing my post and missed shadedingray’s post the first go round! I’m not saying I would actually buy such a device, it’s just that if I WERE interested in that feedback I sure wouldn’t want it to be a part of my saddle.
[QUOTE=Tallboots2;8494872]
I can assure you the tree is not marketing hype-- I have seen it with my eyes and its indisputable. Tad has spent 20 yrs designing this tree and he has finally done it. Every other sport from tennis racquets to golf clubs has equipment that has evolved using technology-- saddles have been built on basically the same tree for almost 100 yrs. Saddle makers have improved the comfort for the rider - changed the look and shape but the tree is the foundation and it hasn’t changed. It makes so much sense – Tad has done some groups where people have brought broken sore grumpy horses that people have essentially thrown away and by putting the saddle on the horse-- letting it stand in the saddle for 20 minutes --he will take the saddle off retest and the soreness is gone-- never mind when you ride its truly amazing. That’s why dr Madigan is doing more research – the results are undeniable. Tad has agreed to this partnership with Voltaire because he recognizes the opportunity to have more people experience this development in the brands they love.[/QUOTE]
Everything highlighted in blue is hype, not fact. Anecdotal evidence isn’t worth anything. A statement such as “I saw them put the saddle on the horse’s back and it sat there for 20 minutes and afterwards the horse was a changed horse!” comes across as a bit ridiculous to me.
Here is what “fact” is: A study done by an independent researcher (aka a researcher that received NO funding from the maker of the item being studied). Testers were blinded as to which type of item (saddle tree) was being used for each test subject. Here are how many horses they tested, the testing criteria, and here are the results.
According to what you say, such fact is coming, but doesn’t exist yet. That’s not terribly meaningful. If Voltaire or TC is funding the studies, even if the hoped for results do come in it’s still not incontrovertible proof–it’s very easy to design a study that “proves” something when you have a financial incentive to do so.
If Tad Coffin is such a genius at tree innovation and saddle fit, why do his current saddles–which he designed–have a reputation for not fitting horses well? Why isn’t the Tad Coffin Saddle already the “must have” saddle with “neurologic benefits”? I’ve met Tad, but my impression was more that he was good at marketing and less that he was a genius for saddle fit. I have nothing against him and I’m well aware that plenty of people DO like the TC saddle, I’m just not convinced that he’s any better than any other saddle maker.
I’m not attacking anyone here, just bringing up some questions that I think consumers should ask before shelling out $6K. Saddle buyers (myself included!) are entitled to ask uncomfortable questions and expect hard data that backs up any “revolutionary” claims before spending money.
FWIW, I ask tough questions to the reps/companies that I do buy saddles from, I’m not singling Voltaire out here.
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8495413]
FWIW, I ask tough questions to the reps/companies that I do buy saddles from, I’m not singling Voltaire out here.[/QUOTE]
I agree with you, before I shell out 8 grand I want some real evidence… not just what the company claims. Even if I do love voltaire saddles.
As I said, I love my Tad Coffin SmartRide and consider it the best saddle I have ever had, but I think tallboots’ posts are doing more harm than good. making overblown claims like that without providing evidence just turns people off.
I have never been able to square being a genius about saddle fit/design with more than a decade of insisting one tree size/shape fits every horse. Those two things just don’t make sense to me… it’s not like the concept of different tree sizes/shapes hasn’t been well known for a long time?! And now the TC saddles some in different tree sizes. So… is that a tacit acknowledgement that the whole “one tree to rule them all” business was a lot of marketing schtick and actually not biomechanically correct?!
Yeah, I don’t think you have to buy into that to really like the tree itself though if it fits your horses. And for whatever reason, the horses I have now really do like it and move well in it. I still have other saddles I can use in various tree widths if it doesn’t fit a particular horse. I certainly didn’t sell everything and assume the TC saddle would fit every horse from now to forever.
It is like the “pro panels” I tried from Voltaire once. They stuck out like wings on my TB and the saddle bridged so badly I didn’t even girth it up and get on my horse’s back. Too bad because it was a beautiful saddle and I had loved riding a friend’s horse in it. Nothing works on every horse though some saddles can work on many horses.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8495478]
Yeah, I don’t think you have to buy into that to really like the tree itself though if it fits your horses. And for whatever reason, the horses I have now really do like it and move well in it. I still have other saddles I can use in various tree widths if it doesn’t fit a particular horse. I certainly didn’t sell everything and assume the TC saddle would fit every horse from now to forever.
It is like the “pro panels” I tried from Voltaire once. They stuck out like wings on my TB and the saddle bridged so badly I didn’t even girth it up and get on my horse’s back. Too bad because it was a beautiful saddle and I had loved riding a friend’s horse in it. Nothing works on every horse though some saddles can work on many horses.[/QUOTE]
Right… but it’s one thing (as the alleged saddle fitting expert) to say “IF this tree suits your horse, this may be a great saddle for you” and another to say “this tree fits every horse.” There are a lot of things I liked about the TC saddle I tried (and some I didn’t) but it was hard to trust as an expert someone who was saying something that seemed so unbelievable. Now we are again being told he’s an expert in saddle design. I don’t think it’s unfair to doubt someone’s expertise in biomechanics when, at least in the past, he adopted a position that was pretty “out there” in terms of biomechanics.
BeeHoney, you do bring up some really good points. I didn’t realize that the SmartRide technology in the new Voltaire saddle is from TC’s saddle line. I’ve never seen this technology myself, so I’m not claiming to know anything about it. But, I was thinking the same, which is:
If SmartRide is so great, why aren’t TC saddles the must have thing? They’ve been around for a while now and although I don’t see many of the TC2 saddles for sale used, I don’t hear people raving about them either…
Also, I would definitely not pay for this saddle without seeing how they proved it has “neurological” benefit to the horse. Anyone can say their product does this and that. Hell, I think almost every company selling equine products has done it.
Quite honestly, the article on HC made me uncomfortable. When I shell out money for a saddle, I want to feel like I am paying talented designers and experienced craftsmen for their work. I DON’T want to feel like I am paying for ridiculously fancy marketing parties at the Breakers.
[QUOTE=Tallboots2;8494872]
I can assure you the tree is not marketing hype-- I have seen it with my eyes and its indisputable. Tad has spent 20 yrs designing this tree and he has finally done it. Every other sport from tennis racquets to golf clubs has equipment that has evolved using technology-- saddles have been built on basically the same tree for almost 100 yrs. Saddle makers have improved the comfort for the rider - changed the look and shape but the tree is the foundation and it hasn’t changed. It makes so much sense – Tad has done some groups where people have brought broken sore grumpy horses that people have essentially thrown away and by putting the saddle on the horse-- letting it stand in the saddle for 20 minutes --he will take the saddle off retest and the soreness is gone-- never mind when you ride its truly amazing. That’s why dr Madigan is doing more research – the results are undeniable. Tad has agreed to this partnership with Voltaire because he recognizes the opportunity to have more people experience this development in the brands they love.[/QUOTE]
How do you really test “soreness”… A lot of things are like this with horses, the best other example that I can think of is poulticing a horse with clay. I believe that it does help draw out some of the heat through evaporative cooling, But many believe that the cold hose to get the stuff off does more for the horse than the poultice itself. Even from a purely scientific standpoint soreness is only qualitative data eg the water feels cold, because soreness is opinionated. For any new product that makes claims on this will help your horse especially when they are talking about neuro things, I want quantitative data e.g. the water is 43 degrees. So until I see scientific data on how this is making a horse “less sore” i’m going to see this as one of those “this is the next big thing” gimmicks
The Tad Coffin saddle is a minimalist feel saddle with super close contact and great balance. They have a hard seat.
The trend now is for cushy French saddles that sort of hold the rider in place with lots of cushy blocks. Pretty much the opposite. They are not going to be “popular” for a large percentage of riders who want that “hold me in position” kind of saddle. They just aren’t. I love mine to death but it’s just not what a lot of riders are looking for. If you like this kind of saddle, it’s fantastic. but it is what it is. There aren’t a lot of model options. The two options that exist are basically the same saddle, one with slightly higher wither clearance and a minimally deeper seat than the other but still a flat seat compared to basically anything else on the market. When I switched models, it felt pretty much exactly the same to ride in to me.
I can see why they might want to expand to put the tree in French saddles because that is what so many riders like.
I understand your reluctance, vxf111. It’s a very legitimate concern. I take all that stuff with a grain of salt, you have to. I myself will look past stupid marketing when an actual product is good most of the time… almost all horse products have marketing with overbroad claims. I think Back on Track has made a ridiculous amount of money selling items with very dubious health benefits… However, I do get annoyed by some of it. I refuse to buy eggland’s best eggs because of their continuous lies/claims about the “extra healthiness” of their eggs which they continue to make after regular FTC fines for deceptive advertising. They just pay the fines and keep doing it. That’s skeezy.
BOT is on my “oh come ON” list too 
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