[QUOTE=vxf111;8495767]
BOT is on my “oh come ON” list too ;)[/QUOTE]
Me too. Wouldn’t spend one red cent on it. It’s so popular but the science is just not there.
I am not aware of any science affiliated with those products…at least TC has an engineer on staff who I assume is in fact some sort of expert in designing things.
I have a whole list of these sorts of things – calming products (though maybe they work if you give 9 tubes of them, can’t say), 90% of all supplements, Magnetic Everything (especially those very expensive sheets and boots), ultrasound therapy for basic maintenance, Theraplates, etc.
There is no end to the amount of time and money you can sink into a horse that would probably be just as well off with tons of turnout and good basic feed program.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8495840]
I am not aware of any science affiliated with those products…at least TC has an engineer on staff who I assume is in fact some sort of expert in designing things.
I have a whole list of these sorts of things – calming products (though maybe they work if you give 9 tubes of them, can’t say), 90% of all supplements, Magnetic Everything (especially those very expensive sheets and boots), ultrasound therapy for basic maintenance, Theraplates, etc.
There is no end to the amount of time and money you can sink into a horse that would probably be better off with a lot more turnout and good basic feed program.[/QUOTE]
You’re naming my greatest hits of the ORLY list 
-Majik tree saddles
-Wee tiny magents
-Vibrating stuffs
-Majik ceramic fabric
-Something’s in this bucket, maybe
duplicate, sorry
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8495840]
I am not aware of any science affiliated with those products…at least TC has an engineer on staff who I assume is in fact some sort of expert in designing things.
I have a whole list of these sorts of things – calming products (though maybe they work if you give 9 tubes of them, can’t say), 90% of all supplements, Magnetic Everything (especially those very expensive sheets and boots), ultrasound therapy for basic maintenance, Theraplates, etc.
There is no end to the amount of time and money you can sink into a horse that would probably be just as well off with tons of turnout and good basic feed program.[/QUOTE]
From personal experience with ligament injuries of various types (my injuries, not my horse’s), therapeutic ultrasound is a real thing.
But you can spend a ton of money ultrasounding a horse these days that isn’t even injured yet, IPEsq. How passé to use it on a horse that has already damaged itself. You could easily have spent $10k before you ever reach that point.
That is what I mean, not veterinary-prescribed US which has its place in some rehabs I am sure.
Smart Ride
A client of mine purchased a new TC with Smart Ride around 5600.00. At first it fit every horse in the barn. It was only ridden in at horse shows. At most, it was ridden in at 13 horses on 3 different horses. The client started saying it didn’t seem to fit anymore. I rode in it and noticed it was now rocking and the front of saddle was sitting right down on the wither of one horse to the point it rubbed a spot on his wither in one ride.
I happened to notice a post on this board from someone thanking Tad Coffin for making their saddle right no questions asked. My customer immediately sent the saddle back asking them to take a look at it as we felt something was wrong. They replaced the tree as it gave way (or whatever you call it); no questions asked.
Since that happened we decided to go with a different saddle and sold the TC.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8495933]
But you can spend a ton of money ultrasounding a horse these days that isn’t even injured yet, IPEsq. How passé to use it on a horse that has already damaged itself. You could easily have spent $10k before you ever reach that point.
That is what I mean, not veterinary-prescribed US which has its place in some rehabs I am sure.[/QUOTE]
Oh, now I see what you are saying. I’ve never done therapeutic U/S on my horse…only on myself, in a physical therapist’s office. However, for areas of chronic strain, like one of my SI ligaments, it would be nice to have access to that when I just feel kind of bad but not bad enough to deal with the whole insurance hassle of formal P/T. Perhaps it could be used for maintenance issues in horses as well?
You can buy a handheld US for not very much money, IPEsq. We looked into it for a horse once that did have some actual vet issues it might have helped. But don’t hold it in one place, it can damage issue. Make sure you understand how to use it before you do.
Not as much money as this saddle, but ones that are like the ones my PTs use are at least in the neighborhood of $1k. I am aware it can burn if you don’t move it around. I had my hand done for many weeks a few years ago.
No, I meant if you’re in a program, your vet/trainer/whatever can enter that into an interface online, and it goes directly to the app on your phone, which tells your watch when to beep. The vet/trainer can then see how the horse is progressing via the data on the dashboard.
I’m fine keeping a horse fit myself, but a rider that isn’t that experienced, or has a horse in a rehab program, might benefit from that. Much easier than writing down everything your vet/trainer said. Plus the vet doesn’t have to have a conversation with you to see how the horse is progressing.
Again, #wishfulthinking 
[QUOTE=Tallboots2;8493191]
The saddle tree Voltaire is promoting is a SmartRide made by Tad Coffin. Please note their reference to SmartRide with a trademark. Tad has just been to UC Davis and worked with Dr Madigan who will be doing a full blown trial on the neurological benefits of the saddle tree – currently in a Tad Coffin Performance Saddle, now being offered in the Blue Wing by Volataire. Tad is interested in his tree being available to all and for the poster who discussed the gullet height-- the tree does not sit on the spine. The pressure points along the spine where the tree sits seems to have an effect on behavior – reducing pain and improving performance. You can find more information on the Tad Cofffin Performance Saddle website. Tad has spent years working on this tree but he is aware that everyone has different tastes and how they feel in a saddle-- his main concern is changing the conversation around saddles – for the first time a saddle can actually affect performance as acknowledged by the medical establishment. This is exciting news and to me – the app is great but the real news is that an American made tree is being put in a French saddle and for the first time – performance is measurably affected by a piece of equipment-- a critical piece of equipment – why aren’t they all working on this? Whether you like Tad’s saddles or not – he is the only one who has gotten this far-- some claim to but I think that’s why Voltaire came to him in the first place–[/QUOTE]
Good for him! It’s about time tree-making improved in the English world. I think you are right about the value of putting that technology into the French Shape saddle everyone wants, as an addition to Coffin’s very traditional Hermes/PdN design. I hope Coffin makes the ton of money he deserves from pressing the envelope in tree design.
^^^ exactly. Please don’t hate on this excellent tree design just because you personally don’t like it. I have a TC with SmartRide and as a 63 year old rider, my main thought is how much money I spent on prior inferior saddles.
Maybe I just have bad eyesight, but every single photo of a Tad Coffin saddle that I’ve seen looks like they sit pommel-high on the horse, with the deepest part of the seat towards the rear and the cantle lower than pommel. Every single one, even on the website. I dunno, I think that’s just wrong. Everything I’ve ever heard about saddle fitting says that the saddle should be level.
If you’re paying that kind of money for a saddle, I think they should, you know, actually fit the horse, not sit pommel-high. Or are you supposed to be a genius rider who can miraculously perform at your best while fighting a chair seat? Sorry, I just can’t buy into that particular brand of Kool-Aid.
No one is hating on anyone here. I am happy for anyone who has found a saddle that fits both them and their horse quite well. Any knowledgeable person knows that there isn’t one brand or one design that suits every horse or rider.
As someone who has navigated many saddle purchases and dealt with reps from various brands, I can tell you many saddle companies have very strong marketing strategies that are not based in fact, related to the quality of the product, or relevant as to how that product will work for YOU and YOUR horse. Doesn’t mean they have a bad product, just means that saddle buyers have a LOT of ridiculous marketing they need to wade through to get to the truth of what saddle is best for them and their horse.
If you look at the website of just about ANY saddle maker they will discuss their revolutionary new tree, panel and seat designs that make the horse perform better and the rider be more comfortable and secure. Tad Coffin is hardly “pressing the envelope” in tree design. He is doing the same thing everyone else is doing. It’s an obvious marketing ploy to make statements that make your competitors sound like they are just doing the “same old thing.” Doesn’t mean TC isn’t making a perfectly fine product, but many other companies are doing the same.
If you are really interested in advances in saddle design, check out Bua saddles. They genuinely do have a very new and different design on the market.
Ride in it. If it puts you in a chair seat, don’t buy it. I personally am a rider who sold no less than three saddles, two of them French, because I fought them putting me in a chair seat. My TCs don’t put me in a chair seat. Don’t assume they will do it from pictures. That’s just ridiculous. Talk about assuming. I didn’t even buy it for the tree, I bought it for the balance point.
The very very best thing about these saddles is the balance point which is superb. In other words, lack of chair seat. I am very tall with long legs and this is a huge issue for me in 99% of saddles. I feel right where I ought to be in the TC all the time. It is such a lovely saddle and never interferes with me which is what I want. Of course I grew up jumping around the Junior Jumpers in a PDN so I like minimalist.
Everyone’s conformation is different so lots of people are not going to be built like be and will prefer a saddle with a different balance point. No big deal. But this saddle works for me. Extremely well. Whatever PP is seeing in pictures, it is not there for me.
ETA: went back and looked at some fitting pics of my saddle on my horses and it sits level. Maybe a little pommel low. And it is the TC2, the “wither clearance” Model. https://fordtraktor.shutterfly.com/pictures/158
Maybe I missed something but it wouldn’t be that hard to make a smartphone app to record WTC and jumps. There are already plenty free ones that’ll beep to tell you when to change gait for rehab (aka interval training apps) so use the accelerometer and timer, throw a glossy equine skin on it and away you go for $. No need to house it in a saddle for $$$$$
Here is mine. You can judge for yourself if it sits pommel high. And this is a horse with very prominent TB withers. He is why I bought a TC2. Mine is a forward flap because of my extremely long legs.
https://fordtraktor.shutterfly.com/pictures/158
It certainly doesn’t put me in a chair seat, I sold three saddles, two of them French for committing that particular sin. I hate that! I will not fight a saddle. I don’t want it to hold me in place, but definitely don’t want it to HURT anything. The place it does put me better feel darn near perfect for the $$$ these cost, even used like mine was. And it does.
I agree with BeeHoney! A great deal of the saddle sale is based on “soft science”, perception and trends.
Personally, I believe that a huge component saddle fit is having a GOOD saddle fitter and way too many of the big saddle companies don’t have reps that understand saddle fit. You don’t necessarily need the fanciest leather or the newest tree.
The Bua saddle does sound very interesting. Also the Butterfly saddle.
In the meantime, I will steadfastly refuse to spend $6K plus on a saddle because I know that I can find a saddle that will fit my horse (and me) comfortably without doing that.
Honestly, I’ve owned some very expensive saddles, some mid-grade saddles and some (like the Wintec pro jump) that aren’t expensive at all. My horses never knew the price tags and actually rejected some of the $$$ saddles as being uncomfortable. One of them actually preferred his Wintec Pro Jump over the drool worthy Stackhouse saddle that I had a the time.
As for the Balios sensor, I am curious to see how well it works. I helped the company when it was launching its Kickstarter campaign and I think it has promise. I wouldn’t want the sensor to be part of my saddle because I don’t want to always ride in one saddle . . .
[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8497183]
No one is hating on anyone here. I am happy for anyone who has found a saddle that fits both them and their horse quite well. Any knowledgeable person knows that there isn’t one brand or one design that suits every horse or rider.
As someone who has navigated many saddle purchases and dealt with reps from various brands, I can tell you many saddle companies have very strong marketing strategies that are not based in fact, related to the quality of the product, or relevant as to how that product will work for YOU and YOUR horse. Doesn’t mean they have a bad product, just means that saddle buyers have a LOT of ridiculous marketing they need to wade through to get to the truth of what saddle is best for them and their horse.
If you look at the website of just about ANY saddle maker they will discuss their revolutionary new tree, panel and seat designs that make the horse perform better and the rider be more comfortable and secure. Tad Coffin is hardly “pressing the envelope” in tree design. He is doing the same thing everyone else is doing. It’s an obvious marketing ploy to make statements that make your competitors sound like they are just doing the “same old thing.” Doesn’t mean TC isn’t making a perfectly fine product, but many other companies are doing the same.
If you are really interested in advances in saddle design, check out Bua saddles. They genuinely do have a very new and different design on the market.[/QUOTE]
I used to believe the “you need a qualified independent saddle fitter who will sell you a lasts-forever-like-they-were-made-for-centuries wool flocked gusseted panels bastion of British-made perfection” schtick. Until I bought two saddles that “fit” according to the master saddle fitter who trained for 20 years in England blah blah. Sure, they didn’t make the horse sore, but they were doing something to him because he started blatantly refusing to even enter any arena.
I think the British tree design leaves a lot to be desired and engineering like Tad’s and what is being done with the shapes of some of the French saddles (like the Antares evolution tree) is showing us that “the way things were” is maybe not the way they have to be. As soon as I put my horse in a saddle that HORRIFIED the saddle fitter (“those thin panels! foam!”) he went like a dream. I think the British saddles are doing a great job of fitting a horse who is standing still but have not entered the new millenium as far as what those thick, wool panels feel like to the back of a moving, working, modern super-athletic horse. I can feel that my new saddle moves and changes around my horse as he works. I never get the feeling that the horse is moving out from under my saddle because he doesn’t. When I was working with Antares on this saddle, they had a NUMBER of trees outside of the “one tree, change the panels” fitting model of old.
It was a revelation for me and I don’t think I’ll be going back, tbh.
Now, I don’t want my saddle to send me text messages - but I am glad to see that this is spreading and it doesn’t have to be the way it was and we are starting to consider the dynamics of the moving horse and his rider when we think about how saddles should be.
