New Voltaire Design Saddle: Blue Wing.....thoughts?

[BeeHoney]

Well, it depends on what your horse is shaped like. If you have a wide horse with a fat, flat back, good luck getting a good fit with a French saddle. Mind you, I love French saddles, and I am quite pleased with every memory foam paneled saddle I’ve ever had, but they just aren’t the best choice for every horse.

The moral of the story here is that we are very lucky not just for ONE single innovation by ONE saddle company, but that we have MANY innovative saddle companies making a variety of saddles that we can choose from.

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8528140]
Well, it depends on what your horse is shaped like. If you have a wide horse with a fat, flat back, good luck getting a good fit with a French saddle. Mind you, I love French saddles, and I am quite pleased with every memory foam paneled saddle I’ve ever had, but they just aren’t the best choice for every horse.

The moral of the story here is that we are very lucky not just for ONE single innovation by ONE saddle company, but that we have MANY innovative saddle companies making a variety of saddles that we can choose from.[/QUOTE]

I have exactly that, a wide horse with a wide, flat back and low withers, and the Antares Evolution in the AO tree fits him like it was made for him and that’s not even the widest saddle Antares makes, they have a 2AO tree.

There’s a lot of misconceptions about French saddles. Probably more than there are about British saddles, but there’s a notion that the British way is the “right” way and that french saddles only fit french horses and it’s simply not true. It’s exactly the presumption that “you need the type of horse for that saddle” that limits innovation.

[BeeHoney]

It’s okay, we can agree to disagree and I enjoy the discussion. In my own experience using French saddles, I have found the wide and extra wide trees to fit “wide” warmblood types quite well. But, not quite as well when it comes to truly wide pony breeds, QHs, Irish horses and draft crosses, even when the saddle is custom fitted. It has less to do with the width of the tree, and more to do with the shape of the panels. I were going to fit one of these horses, I would cast a wider net than just French saddles in my search. FWIW I’m an Antares fan and repeat customer. I don’t see how this limits innovation–a product doesn’t have to be right for every horse to be an amazing and innovative product.

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=BeeHoney;8528346]
It’s okay, we can agree to disagree and I enjoy the discussion. In my own experience using French saddles, I have found the wide and extra wide trees to fit “wide” warmblood types quite well. But, not quite as well when it comes to truly wide pony breeds, QHs, Irish horses and draft crosses, even when the saddle is custom fitted. It has less to do with the width of the tree, and more to do with the shape of the panels. I were going to fit one of these horses, I would cast a wider net than just French saddles in my search. FWIW I’m an Antares fan and repeat customer. I don’t see how this limits innovation–a product doesn’t have to be right for every horse to be an amazing and innovative product.[/QUOTE]

I “cast a wider net” and bought the hoop tree saddle from a brand that is discussed on here all the time, that was blessed by several fitters recommended on here all the time, and while he liked it at first, it was miserable to ride in and eventually hurt my horse so much that he wouldn’t work. And they are still telling me it fits. And now I have to sell it for half of what I paid 18 months ago, after spending an additional $400 on flocking adjustments.

My experience has been very disappointing to say the least. Panel shape is easy to change if the tree fits, so that’s a strange argument against it. And since they are foam, the panel shape doesn’t change and pack down every time you sit in the horse.

[fordtraktor]

Also there are different approaches to saddle fit. If you are a “must be perfect so I can ride it in a baby pad” then French and the Tad Coffin approach is not for you. You are probably going to be more a wool flocking custom fitter person. I am much more a “have a few saddles in several different tree shapes and sizes, own about ten half pads, and I can make any of my horses pretty darn happy with some configuration of those” person. My Tad works great, and I have been able to use foam saddles in the past. Though my other saddles right now are all wool. I find them to actually be very flexible with fit – I have Stubben and Smith Worthingtons on my saddle racks, and a Wintec. I look for things like semi-cutback heads to accommodate withers without causing issues if there are no withers, tree points that are not too tight but long soft panels that mold well around horses’ shapes, etc. a saddle with those kinds of traits can fit many horses very happily. I am very careful to monitor horses’ movements and backs to see how things are going. Has been working pretty well for me for a long time. one saddle definitely won’t fit all horses, though!!! I have 3 close contact and 2 dressage, one will fit usually! So far, anyway. If not, just have to add another! I care a lot about back comfort and palpate my horses backs before I tack up every time to make sure their backs are happy. A 30 second part of my grooming routine – which is abominably scarce otherwise. I might ride with muddy manes and sawdust in the tail, keep me at home so no one to judge me but I never skip the backs.

It would be nice to do custom Counties for everyone, though, the other approach is not wrong! In fact it is wonderful and if I had one horse, I would probably go that route. Just hard when you have a bunch of horses. I can justify one expensive saddle which is why I do what I do. My other saddles are all bargain bin buys or elderly. At least two are over 20 years old. still in good condition, all that leather care my trainer pounded into me paid off.

One nice thing about wool is adjustability within the range of the tree. One of my Smith Worthingtons is custom fitted to my little TB who is quite narrow, but if I wanted I could have some of the stuffing taken out for a couple hundred $$ with no problem and change the fit of that saddle into something that fits a wider range of horses.

[Bogie]

I would be annoyed as well if I’d had your experience. I cringe at the knowledge that my saddle fitter will retire – probably in the not-too-distant future. I’ve worked with the same fitter for almost 18 years (I was pregnant with my daughter when he came the first time) and my horses have been very happy and comfortable. I have considered asking him to teach me how to fit my own saddles!

[QUOTE=soloudinhere;8528420]
I “cast a wider net” and bought the hoop tree saddle from a brand that is discussed on here all the time, that was blessed by several fitters recommended on here all the time, and while he liked it at first, it was miserable to ride in and eventually hurt my horse so much that he wouldn’t work. And they are still telling me it fits. And now I have to sell it for half of what I paid 18 months ago, after spending an additional $400 on flocking adjustments.

My experience has been very disappointing to say the least. Panel shape is easy to change if the tree fits, so that’s a strange argument against it. And since they are foam, the panel shape doesn’t change and pack down every time you sit in the horse.[/QUOTE]

[soloudinhere]

[QUOTE=Bogie;8528741]
I would be annoyed as well if I’d had your experience. I cringe at the knowledge that my saddle fitter will retire – probably in the not-too-distant future. I’ve worked with the same fitter for almost 18 years (I was pregnant with my daughter when he came the first time) and my horses have been very happy and comfortable. I have considered asking him to teach me how to fit my own saddles![/QUOTE]

My saddle fitter was very good. Some of the others who also agree that the fit is good I feel less strongly about. By all accounts, the saddle “fit.” The horse just didn’t agree with the MSF books or the British idea that a thick fat panel and a big wide channel with long, straight tree points is the right answer.

[IPEsq]

Reviving this thread because I sat in a Blue Wing demo saddle yesterday. It had a lot of what I was looking for…flat seat, comfy leather. My horse, a hard to fit guy who is very sensitive to any restriction on the spine or shoulder, hated it. The demo was pretty unbalanced for him, to be fair. But, what was interesting is their “infinity panel”, which basically takes Tad Coffin’s extra squishy panels (on the newer saddles, anyway) to another level by offering 2 layers of foam. One extremely squishy and flexible, and one more normal modern memory foam. So, although the panels appeared to have a wither gusset like shape in the front when first put on, which would be super for my horse, once I sat in it, that entire area squished down to practically nothing. By the fingers test, it seemed to still have enough gullet clearance, and the tree points are extremely flexible so they shouldn’t have been restricting the horse, but horse disagreed. I sat in 3 other Voltaire saddles (Palm Beach medium tree, Palm Beach wide tree, and Stuttgart) and also experimented with shims on all of them. 2 he would pick up a trot in. One of those he was also willing to canter in (but it was killing me, comfort and position-wise). Horse refused to even do a working walk in the Blue Wing much less anything else.

It was a bummer because I went through this all a year ago, found a saddle he liked, which he has now grown out of, and I’m back to the drawing board with him hating pretty much everything, although my wallet is giving a sigh of relief.

[Kumari55]

I honestly am not a fan of voltaire or their customer service and sales techniques and feel their leather quality isn’t as nice as some of the other french brands. I almost feel like the Blue Wing sounds like a commercial for maxi pads… that being said I think there is technology out there that does a lot of what this blue wing saddle can do without the hefty price tag.

Love the Tad Coffin tree but I think voltaire puts a lot of hype behind their saddles but there is not much original or innovative about them. The tree came from Tad, the app was already existent and is available on your phone and can be attached to a girth. They just took others ideas stuck it in a saddle, hyped it up and tacked on a hefty price tag and told everyone this is the “cool kids” saddle.

[diceuf]

Bumping this. Anyone have one? Feedback?

[GoneAway]

Bumping this up for anyone searching for info on the BlueWing. I just bought a 2018 model from Redwood Tack. I’ve not been a fan of the Tad Coffin saddles themselves, but always been curious about the trees, so the BlueWings have intrigued me for awhile. But being out of budget, I was never able to test them out. My new horse needed a different saddle, so I picked up this BlueWing from Leah at a huge discount from its normal retail price, and trialed it this week.

There aren’t a lot of these floating around, and I don’t know if it’s because people love them and hold on to them, or because they are so outrageously overpriced new that they just don’t exist because people don’t actually buy them. I got lucky finding one used.

Overall, it’s okay for me. I hate new saddles and this thing is basically brand new. Coming from a well broken in CWD and 2014 calfskin Voltaire Palm Beach, the BlueWing feels like I’m sitting a mile above the horse. But I got more accustomed to it over the week and by yesterday was starting to feel comfortable in it. It just needs time and a lot of help in the break in department. Once it’s there I think it’ll be a nice ride for me.

Horse loves it. I’ve been enormously skeptical of the marketing garbage surrounding this “majikal smart saddle” and even the usual TC claims of their SmartRide trees working for every horse. That said, it’s the right tree and the right saddle for my horse. He was markedly different, softer, more forward, looser through the back, and just overall seemed so much happier in the BlueWing than he ever was in the Palm Beach.

Unlike what the marketing might say, it’s just like any other saddle where it may work well for your horse, or they may hate it. If you want some additional details about the BlueWing or want to see Ron Swanson’s dramatic reenactment of me receiving the smart accessories that I have no interest in using, check out my blog below and feel free to ask any questions.

War Horse: Voltaire BlueWing