New wood stalls, polyeurathane and bad timing..... advice?

I pulled the trigger on new stall fronts. They had to be custom due to the sizing of the barn (I didn’t build it) and the way that the posts for existing lofts were spaced.

I am a bit stressed that now the cold weather is upon us, I won’t be able to apply poly until spring. I do have a call in to the fabricator to see if they can apply it in the shop, but I was up at the shop a few weeks ago and it does not appear to be heated.

Does anyone have any advice? Or perhaps calm my nerves the stalls will be OK until spring. The wood is pine, so it is a soft wood.

Anyone waited to apply poly? I’d like to keep it as nice as possible, as this was a huge investment for me.

Stalls are set to arrive for set up Dec 6. Instead of excited, I am now fretting. Any input is greatly appreciated. (grabs Bailey’s to put in coffee…)

If your barn is enclosable, then heat your barn :slight_smile: I’ve fired up one of those big heaters that burn just about any sort of fuel (gas, diesel, kerosene) and sounds like a jet engine, and even in a barn with open dutch doors in the stalls but the big doors open, it has made it warm enough to take off heavy jackets and be ok in hoodies.

[QUOTE=TheJenners;8954939]
If your barn is enclosable, then heat your barn :slight_smile: I’ve fired up one of those big heaters that burn just about any sort of fuel (gas, diesel, kerosene) and sounds like a jet engine, and even in a barn with open dutch doors in the stalls but the big doors open, it has made it warm enough to take off heavy jackets and be ok in hoodies.[/QUOTE]

Yes, it is enclosable. I don’t know how many it would take or if the barn would get that warm. Barn is 48 x 36, open aisle to roof but loft over both sides of stalls (not the way I would have done it but different story).

I can’t imagine using kerosene in the barn… I just can’t. Is that just me being paranoid?

I’m not opposed to an electric heater… but my guess it would have to be a giant one. Sigh. (takes another swig of Bailey’s infused coffee…)

I guess I’d have to get the barn “up to temperature” and then keep it that warm while it dries (and keep the animals outside).

I waited 1.5 years to stain my stalls (pine boards, oak framing, PT kickboards). A lot of manufacturers recommend that you wait until the wood is less new. There were no ill effects. The only problem is that you will then have to clean off the dust, caked-on manure, bird crap, and other filth before you can do it. For that reason alone, I would probably not wait if I had to do it again.

Before I poly-ed my stalls, I sprayed them with a paint thinner/linseed oil mix. My father recommended it as a prep. The wood sucks it in fast, so I bet you could do that now and wait until spring to poly.

I used to be married to a cabinet maker. I think there is a VERY strong possibility that whomever is making your stalls will be able to finish them as well in their shop. Most customers prefer finished wood products, so definitely ask.

And – if he cannot finish them for you, perhaps there is a cabinet maker nearby who will finish them for you before they are installed.

I would definitely get them finished before installing. Good luck!

[QUOTE=King’s Ransom;8955593]
I used to be married to a cabinet maker. I think there is a VERY strong possibility that whomever is making your stalls will be able to finish them as well in their shop. Most customers prefer finished wood products, so definitely ask.

I am hoping. He is an Amish gentleman. I was at their shop a few weeks ago and it was not heated so I don’t know if it would be the same situation as I am in now (but no animals so score).

Everyone has made me feel better. :slight_smile:

You need to be careful with paint/finish fumes and kerosene/diesel type heaters.
I finished my pine stalls with Thompsons water seal.

[QUOTE=Equibrit;8955735]
You need to be careful with paint/finish fumes with kerosene/diesel type heaters.
I finished my pine stalls with [URL="http://www.thompsonswaterseal.com/waterproofing

I can’t bring myself to use kero in the barn. Did you do yours in warm weather?

Finishing products really should not be applied at temperatures lower than the range listed on the container. They will not cure properly. You will be fine waiting until spring and warmer weather. The finish’s value is really more for looks than anything else.

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8955754]

[QUOTE=Equibrit;8955735]You need to be careful with paint/finish fumes with kerosene/diesel type heaters.
I finished my pine stalls with [URL="http://www.thompsonswaterseal.com/waterproofing

I can’t bring myself to use kero in the barn. Did you do yours in warm weather?[/QUOTE]

Can’t remember. It was 1994 and it doesn’t get that cold here.

[QUOTE=Libby2563;8955107]
I waited 1.5 years to stain my stalls (pine boards, oak framing, PT kickboards). A lot of manufacturers recommend that you wait until the wood is less new. There were no ill effects. The only problem is that you will then have to clean off the dust, caked-on manure, bird crap, and other filth before you can do it. For that reason alone, I would probably not wait if I had to do it again.[/QUOTE]

What?? Not trying to be snarky but I would like to know the name of the “lots of manufacturers” and see this statement in writing and the reasons for.

I am not a “wood worker” by trade but I have been “working” with wood my whole life. I pretty much build everything myself. Cabinets, trim and lots of farm infrastructure.

Be it stall doors or cabinets manufactures or cabinet fabricators use kiln dried wood. Just like hay it is dried to a specific moisture level before being shipped.

Cabinet, furniture etc fabricators will allow time for a new shipment of wood to acclimate to their shops “climate” humdity levels, heat, etc before being used because they are making things that generally require close, exacting joints and finished look. Once finished and sealed the wood will not “move” much because ambient climate where the finished product will be used does not come into play much.

When new unfinished wood floors are being installed the material should be delivered and left inside the house for X amount of time to acclimate to the house’s ambient “climate” before being installed and finished.

Stall fronts are not exactly fine furniture. Depending on the quality of the materials used there will be a certain amount of “movement” of the wood joints after delivery. This is to be expected. How much “movement” in the joints depends on location. Unlike houses that are for the most part climate controlled barn are not. Even “finished” wood in barns is going to “move” around a lot more than the same in a house.

This is why a “battens” are used on board and batten siding. The boards expand and contract with ambient humidity. The batten (wood strip) is placed over the “gap” between the boards to seal the interior from the weather. But they are supposed to be center nailed, 1 nail in between the 2 boards. This allows the boards to expand and contract. If the batten is nailed to the side of both boards the the batten will eventually split, nails pop and the batten comes loose.

There are a number of ways of manufacturing pre-made stalls. stall fronts. Most especially on the economical side of things build, weld metal channel frames and the unfinished boards are slipped into the channels. The channels have a designed amount of “gap” to allow for expansion and contraction on either end. This “gap” is hidden by the channel. By and large the individual wood members move in unison and the expansion of the whole unit results on the hidden ends.

Ideally unfinished wood butted together should be sealed, finished when the ambient humidity level are at their lowest. The wood has contracted to it lowest point. So when it expands as humidity level rise it will tighten. If sealed/finished when ambient humidity levels are high and then drops the unfinished/sealed gaps can be very visible and annoying. This is very easily seen on walls that bead board has been used. Painted or clear finished.

I learned this hard lesson in my early years of DIY projects.

Considering the the cost of of stalls I completely understand why people want to make sure they look like “furniture” after writing a big check. The same as being meticulous about keeping a new farm car/truck clean. But after a couple of months most of us capitulate to the fact that it is a loosing proposition.

Unfinished wood easily “stains” gets blemished on the surface from an number of things. Even in a house. In a barn environment much more so. A lot of these “blemishes” will not be that visible to the eye until a sealer is applied. If not completely sanded before sealing shortly after delivery and installation. These barely noticeable “blemishes” will stick out like a sore thumb.

“The only problem is that you will then have to clean off the dust, caked-on manure, bird crap, and other filth before you can do it. For that reason alone, I would probably not wait if I had to do it again”

Exactly my point. The rule of diminishing returns kicks in. As I am sure you found out by following the manufacturers recommendations. Recommendations that were self serving. But in all fairness it is most likely because a lot of people have unrealistic expectations. They want a big bang for their buck but expect to pay as little as possible. I call it the ‘Walmart effect’.

OP, all paint, sealers will state on the label the lowest average ambient temps it should be applied at. To cover their butts it is usually higher than actually needed. IMO and experience poly should dry just fine in the 50s and high 40s at night. It may take longer but the end result should be fine. But you don’t want to apply it in this temp range if humidity levels are high.

Why don’t you arrange heat for the shop instead of you barn?

[QUOTE=dressagegirl123;8955770]
Why don’t you arrange heat for the shop instead of you barn?[/QUOTE]

I’m going to try to get a hold of him tomorrow. I spoke with his brother (who is making a run out shed for me and they are sharing the delivery) and the stall guy was out of town back in PA for a wedding. I don’t mind postponing delivery to have it done right (or at least the way I want it).

I agree with Gumtree. I am worried that every blemish will show up if I wait. I didn’t have this issue at my old farm, as I had a wonderful bank barn that we did in rough cut oak so we didn’t stain or poly it. It looks so fantastic in that setting, but this is totally different, updated, I am getting all new stall fronts with the swinging water, feed and hay, wash stall and tackroom redone.

I’m not worried about the tack room, as it is heated with propane and a small heater for if it gets into the negative digits (as back up). The rest of it I am kicking myself for not planning ahead better and missing my ideal window for temperature. :frowning: The death of my dad, deciding if we were staying in Indy longer term and the sale of a parcel of land and PA threw off my scheduling. I know I’m fretting over 1st world problems, it’s just such a huge investment and honestly- a dream come true to have this barn redone.

I do wish my dad was alive to see it (he’s who I would have asked this advice). He was instrumental in getting things done on my farm in PA (Gumtree- you sound very much like him often in your posts. He did A LOT around my farm from running the electric to my ring, figuring out how to make my lights easy to change out in the ring etc).

I nearly had a meltdown (atypical of me) when I had the fencing here redone last month and had questions about planning - my go to guy is gone.

Thanks everyone for their input. It is small question/issue but it’s nice having somewhere to go and ask now my dad is gone.

Now- back to my regular scheduled sarcasm…

[QUOTE=Limitless;8955132]
Before I poly-ed my stalls, I sprayed them with a paint thinner/linseed oil mix. My father recommended it as a prep. The wood sucks it in fast, so I bet you could do that now and wait until spring to poly.[/QUOTE]

Personally I far prefer to seal and finish wood with a “thinner/linseed oil mix” My favorite sealer of this type, finish walls or flooring is a product made by Waterlox. Barn or house. But due to government VOX rules and regs the cost has gone from around $15 a gallon to over $70. Cost prohibitive except for “furniture”, wood flooring use.

Polyurethane does not have the same sealing, finishing properties as “penetrating” sealer/finishes. It is more like a “paint”. It does not really “penetrate” deeply. For lack of a better way of putting it, “poly coating” is more of a “skim” clear coat. It can and does “peel” with the test of time. Not my area of expertise but I am not so sure it is a good idea to apply over an oil based sealer. Good chance with the test of time it may delaminate. Especially in a barn environment. Good question for a paint forum.

[QUOTE=Equibrit;8955735]
You need to be careful with paint/finish fumes and kerosene/diesel type heaters.
I finished my pine stalls with Thompsons water seal.[/QUOTE]

Assuming you used the water based version the ambient temps can be a bit lower than that of the oil based. As long as the humidity levels are low enough. I far prefer the “oil” based version of Thomson. I have found using both, the oil based version stands the test of time far better.

[QUOTE=King’s Ransom;8955593]
I used to be married to a cabinet maker. I think there is a VERY strong possibility that whomever is making your stalls will be able to finish them as well in their shop. Most customers prefer finished wood products, so definitely ask.

And – if he cannot finish them for you, perhaps there is a cabinet maker nearby who will finish them for you before they are installed.

I would definitely get them finished before installing. Good luck![/QUOTE]

“perhaps there is a cabinet maker nearby who will finish them for you before they are installed”

Yes, but be prepared to pay big buck for this service. Cabinet makers can’t help themselves. By trade they are making “furniture”. There is a lot of time and effort to apply a “furniture” finish.

[QUOTE=gumtree;8955804]
Assuming you used the water based version the ambient temps can be a bit lower than that of the oil based. As long as the humidity levels are low enough. I far prefer the “oil” based version of Thomson. I have found using both, the oil based version stands the test of time far better.[/QUOTE]

Is this what you would recommend in this instance (providing he can do it in his shop, and the temperature is acceptable)?

And if we can’t or it is cost prohibitive- would it still be the same in the spring?

And 1 more question for you, Gumtree - sorry to pick your brain: can this way make it a little darker and not as piney? Asking because I am not replacing the back of the stalls, they are in good shape, but have naturally darkened a bit over the years. So I wanted to “stain” or have the fronts a little darker to try to match it.

[QUOTE=Pennywell Bay;8955814]
Is this what you would recommend in this instance (providing he can do it in his shop, and the temperature is acceptable)?

And if we can’t or it is cost prohibitive- would it still be the same in the spring?

And 1 more question for you, Gumtree - sorry to pick your brain: can this way make it a little darker and not as piney? Asking because I am not replacing the back of the stalls, they are in good shape, but have naturally darkened a bit over the years. So I wanted to “stain” or have the fronts a little darker to try to match it.[/QUOTE]

Thompson is more of a water sealer, wood preservative than a “finish”. The amount of coats/applications will determine the finished look. But regardless it will not be the same as a “poly” or penetrating oil finish finish/sealer.

It is not meant to be used for a “furniture” finish look. But considering the price for per gallon it does a pretty good job. Depends on one’s expectations and budget. It is a “clear coat” by and large does not really darken the wood. Even when used on soft pine. Especially the water based version.

Polyeurathane depending on type can be tricky applying when temps are in the 50’s. Especially with higher humidity levels. It can dry with a milky white finish as can Thompson and or never fully cure and you end up with a nightmare “tacky” finish.

Pine is tricky to finish regardless if one wants a “furniture” result or not. Especially “fast growth” pine that is used extensively these days. Soft and open pores. For an even “color” it might be best to coat with a wood sealer first. This will soak in fast even in colder temps. But it is not a “finish”. But it should seal the wood surface enough so as not to get too blemished from barn crud. Then come spring you can apply a proper finish.

The best bang for the buck finish for a DIY person IMO is Wipe on Poly.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Minwax-1-pt-Wipe-On-Poly-Clear-Satin-40910/100376149

Because each coat is very thin it will give very good results when applied with temps int the high 40s, 50s. So I am told. Dries quickly. Again with all finished regardless of temp, humidity plays an important role with the end results and drying time.

Again, we are not making furniture here. But I have used wipe on poly and was very please with the “furniture” finish with very little effort and expertise.

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Minwax-1-pt-Wipe-On-Poly-Clear-Satin-40910/100376149

All wood, especially pine will get “sun tanned” if exposed to direct sunlight. Some finishes have pretty good sun screening built in. Clear coats don’t darken the under lying wood much when applied.

Penetrating oil finishes will darken wood. Tung oil finishes, IMO give a nice honey color to pine. Matching wood that has colored with time is really tricky. In my some what limited experience Tung oil does the best job. But it is expensive to use on large projects. You can try and find a stain that comes close. But that is tricky also. IME just about all pine will end up looking close to the same shade given time. Pretty much regardless of difference when it was installed.

It is easy to “obsess” on these things. I know it has taken me years to get over this and keep in perspective, in the end we are working on a barn not our house. A horse, equipment, ect. at any given moment is going to crap on our nice new wood work, scrape, bite abuse our nice new wood work. Just like newly painted jump rails. I wince every time a horse hits them for the first couple of day, weeks after painting them.

Uh, if the barn is already there, is there a reason you can’t use the existing stall fronts until spring? Just store the stall fronts?