New York Times article - USEF and Humble

[Ambitious_Kate]

[QUOTE=amberhill;6752953]
Ms. Pam Mahoney, Are you accusing me of posing as an attorney? You must know as an atty yourself that this is against the law. That is quite the accusation. I suggest you IMMEDIATELY retract the accusation unless you have proof to support your claim. You have been so advised.[/QUOTE]

I know I am not the only one who would like an explaination from the mods as to why a poster is allowed to continue posting lawsuit threats to other posters on this board. She’s been banned before. Why is she allowed to threaten people on this board in subsequent usernames?

While she is, confusingly, allowed to post, frankly, I think EM should keep right on digging herself into a pit, rather than heed other’s advice to stop digging and posting, not only because watching her self destruct is just so highly entertaining, but that she deserves everything she heaps upon herself. I think the more of a spectacle she creates, the more attention will come to the matter, and the more USEF will be (should be, will have to be)embarrased to have not held her responsible for her behaviour and what happened. I think if her acting out publicly makes the rest of the horse world insist USEF be held accountable for their part in the mess of drugging and injecting and using inappropriate meds during competition, then EM digging herself into a hole plays an important part in that, and should be encouraged to post online and lie as much as possible.

[RAyers]

[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;6757901]
I know I am not the only one who would like an explaination from the mods as to why a poster is allowed to continue posting lawsuit threats to other posters on this board.[/QUOTE]

No! Let her post! She [edit] is continually digging herself deeper and deeper into disrepute. She has done more damage to her defense by posting all that she has. Her threats become less and less viable the more she posts.

[Ambitious_Kate]

I actually agree, and I think I talked myself out of that for the same reason you state, but it is disconcerting that the mods here allow someone like her with the abuse of the board to continue posting abusive threats when the same behaviour is unacceptable to the rest of the COtH posting community. However, you are correct - the more she posts, the less credible she is, and the more damage she does to her own defense on her own. So much so, that that may be the very reason COTH continues to allow her to post! It has to help the inudstry clean its self up to have someone like her brag about what she’s gotten away with. As well, surely the ‘supporters’ she itemizes aren’t going to want to continue to be associated with her and the claims she makes about them supporting her, so at some point her clients, her professional resources and if the 9 lawyers all have their say, her money, is going to dry up. Heh.

[BaroquePony]

Ambitious Kate … let her post :yes:.

[Ambitious_Kate]

Yeah. It’d be a disservice to all of us, really, if she was stoppered here. Where else can she hang herself in front of virtually the entire horse world and surely infront of the entire pony hunter community? Come back, Little Amber. Come back.

[Star_s_Ascent]

But where did she go? Did one of her 9 lawyers finally find a muzzle for her?

[njhorseshowmom]

Filthy human being to do such a thing. An absolute disgrace.

[Tha_Ridge]

[QUOTE=Instant Karma;6757832]
Soooo… does EM even ride? Or has she ever ridden? Or was she just a “pony mom” as she stated in her one train wreck thread only four years ago, and has now somehow become a legend in her own mind? Wonder how one accomplishes that in four years. I have been riding for over twenty years now and still don’t have the knowledge and experience to be a trainer at the top levels. Nor would I trust myself to train a talented youngster on challenging ponies.

I guess that’s why there was a medication list a mile long. Sad.[/QUOTE]

Yep, this is basically what I questioned a few pages back. I’d love to hear from EM herself what makes her qualified as a trainer.

[leyla25]

[QUOTE=poltroon;6756858]
So … when I read this I wonder why I would ever want to subject my child to this sport, if I cannot count on officials judging fairly. Even if the judges are not biased against me or my child… what is the point if you truly believe there is this level of corruption?[/QUOTE]

I agree with you. I wish I knew as much as I know now and I would have stopped my child from competing at this level and perhaps keep it at a recreational one. I used to think people making these observations were sour grapes or crazy. But it is true. It is a disgusting system and only if you are in the business it makes sense for your child to ride or if you have loads of money to buy what you want and to manipulate trainers and judges with the incentive of commissions.

[Limerick]

[QUOTE=Discobold;6757577]
I agree. Everyone should read the transcript. It’s more damning than anything that’s been posted on any forum I continue to bang my head in sympathy for the 9 attorneys who are bleeding this woman dry.[/QUOTE]
I just finished it-well worth the read. And points are made that we are making here-too many meds, no vet prescription to show why so many meds, no medication reports even though they should have been given (stacking), in violation of the spirit of the sport, abusive use of needles, and very limited access to necropsy results with no blood test (because necropsy done too late) I am really grateful tha it was posted-makes me feel that USEF did the best they could to try to find out what happened to little Humble.

[Kenike]

[QUOTE=Ruby G. Weber;6757883]
I would be very interested to know how M’s 9 lawyers involved the USOC/Ted Stevens Act to get her suspension lifted ? After all Pony Hunters are not normally considered an " international" discipline.[/QUOTE]

Im curious, too. I pointed out this thread and shared what was said about the USEF breaking the USOC rules with the temporary suspension because I want to see if anyone will say anything. I could go with it if we were talking jumpers, dressage, or reining, but this is hunters. Everyone is well aware that’s not an international discipline…or so I thought!

[Ponytoes]

D

[QUOTE=Limerick;6758088]
I just finished it-well worth the read. And points are made that we are making here-too many meds, no vet prescription to show why so many meds, no medication reports even though they should have been given (stacking), in violation of the spirit of the sport, abusive use of needles, and very limited access to necropsy results with no blood test (because necropsy done too late) I am really grateful tha it was posted-makes me feel that USEF did the best they could to try to find out what happened to little Humble.[/QUOTE]

That the USEF did the best they could…you have got to be kidding me…

[Limerick]

Did you read the hearing transcript?

[PonyPenny]

[QUOTE=JER;6757002]
Maybe it’s time to give up on the USEF. The USEF has had numerous opportunities to show its own membership that it is serious about horse welfare and anti-doping, but the facts show otherwise. The USEF will always side with insiders and money.

This year, we had the Humble incident, the Uriaco (?)/Deslauriers/Clark incident, and the rather tawdry spectacle of the eventing chef d’equipe hiring his mistress as an assistant. When that last thing happens in the real world, as with Arkansas football coach Bobby Petrino, the corrupt cad is shown the door pronto. Not so with the USEF. Not a peep from them about it, and also not a peep from the ‘industry news leader’ known as the Chronicle of the Horse.

The vast majority of the USEF membership, just like the vast majority of the equestrian community, which includes all of us gathered here, does not support the USEF in terms of how it handled these incidents.

Perhaps its time to give up on the USEF and equestrian media. Does anyone really believe John Long and his organization wants real change? I’m sure Jane Clark’s decision to send her horses and money overseas was more of a blow than anything any large group of ordinary USEF members could come up with.

Maybe it’s time to get state/local law enforcement, local animal control/welfare and state/local licensing/professional boards involved. You’ve got a traveling carnival of controlled medications and syringes and unlicensed veterinary activity and child endangerment – and they’re coming to your town soon.

Maybe the USEF would start to listen if outside agencies – with legal authority and powers of arrest and enforcement – got involved.

This is essentially what happened with the sport of cycling. The UCI did nothing about doping, so LE stepped in. This happened in Spain with Operation Puerto, and most recently in the US with USADA and the Postal Service case. There are a number of cyclists and hangers-on who avoid certain European countries as a result – if they show up, they risk arrest.

Sometimes change takes a real shake-up. With USEF, we clearly have a group at the top of the food chain that likes things the way they are with a strong interest in protecting their fiefdom.[/QUOTE]

Don’t forget about the Mindy and Maddie Darst incident at Pony Finals.

[mvp]

[QUOTE=pds;6757248]
I agree this IS NOT a new problem. USEF and the former AHSA have been well aware of this problem for years and years and yet at the constant urging of members have refused to get serious on the issue. At the least, USEF has been negligent and at the worst, criminal. IMO the attitude and unethical practices of EM and countless others like her are a direct result of the unwillingness of the USEF to abide by it very own mission statement.[/QUOTE]

The historical point is well taken.

In addition, that long track record of minimal punishments for infractions let the rank-and-file trainer know that he/she could risk a D&M infraction if that was a possible side-effect of using drugs.

The other problem-- people going to “Will Not Test” stuff-- is logically a different one. It can be fixed with some huge and expensive overhauls to the system, but the move from Ace to Dex to Reserpine to huge amounts of Magnesium follows on the heels of the invention of drug tests built to identify whatever the previously-used drugs were.

The point is to not confuse the two issues. The USEF can do a great deal by picking either problem to tackle. The other point is to note their part in not taking the relatively easy path: Making the consequences of getting caught for cheating so bad that no one would do it. IMO, then, it’s not that the USEF isn’t living up to it’s mission. It’s that it has demonstrated that all the way back to the AHSA, it has never been prepared to do this with any teeth, so why get verklempt about it now if you are interested in drugging?

[mvp]

[QUOTE=DoubleTwistedWire;6757806]
Bayer’s got very, very deep pockets. I have trouble believing that if it was one of their products in the syringe that killed poor Humble, EM wouldn’t have been putting that thing on dry ice, sending it off to a lab, and having it put in cold storage to provide evidence in a suit against Bayer. As lawsuit happy as she seems to be, its hard to believe she wouldn’t go after such a big payday.[/QUOTE]

Not if she could merely collect on the mortality claim for the insured pony. Why spend a fortune suing Big Pharma when you can collect on an insurance policy instead with greater speed and less effort?

Above, Mandarino does mention an insurance company. Someone else has asked the right question:

Was that claim paid?

But others matter as well: Did Mandarino submit a claim? Did the insurance company require a copy of the necropsy report or ask for any particular findings?

[Ghazzu]

[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;6758021]
Yeah. It’d be a disservice to all of us, really, if she was stoppered here. Where else can she hang herself in front of virtually the entire horse world and surely infront of the entire pony hunter community? Come back, Little Amber. Come back.[/QUOTE]

Gee, I suppose she could post on that board she keeps mentioning, horse show diva.

[gumshoe]

One of the pages posted said the necropsy was required by insurance.

[QUOTE=mvp;6758331]
Not if she could merely collect on the mortality claim for the insured pony. Why spend a fortune suing Big Pharma when you can collect on an insurance policy instead with greater speed and less effort?

Above, Mandarino does mention an insurance company. Someone else has asked the right question:

Was that claim paid?

But others matter as well: Did Mandarino submit a claim? Did the insurance company require a copy of the necropsy report or ask for any particular findings?[/QUOTE]

[Ponytoes]

No I did not but have followed all the 30 plus pages of this plus so many other trainwrecks, Pony Final debacle, etc…USEF does what it can not to get its hands dirty, it NEVER does the best it can…please post what you think that makes it looks like it did the “best it could”…would love to see it and make me feel better about the money I pay them every year…

[Ponytoes]

[QUOTE=Limerick;6758235]
Did you read the hearing transcript?[/QUOTE]

My above reply was about this reply… will try and read transcirpt tomorrow…