Umm…have you seen the medication schedule that the pony was on?? Me thinks that Legend was the least of his problems…
[QUOTE=Freebird!;6757503]
Umm…have you seen the medication schedule that the pony was on?? Me thinks that Legend was the least of his problems…[/QUOTE]
Freebird, I think if you read it again you’ll conclude that the poster does not actually believe that an injection of Legend caused the pony’s death. However, with EM saying it did, if she is correct, then that leads down some, ahem, interesting paths.
[QUOTE=findeight;6757327]
Who needs RateMyHorsePro? Just read what EM puts up, nobody to sue on that one.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Everyone should read the transcript. It’s more damning than anything that’s been posted on any forum 
I continue to bang my head in sympathy for the 9 attorneys who are bleeding this woman dry.
I will be interested to see whether this very significant article gets discussed during the GM Horsemastership Clinic that begins tomorrow. The biggest challenge is that everyone there will probably think that Ms. Mandarino is perpetually self-medicated with whatever “wasn’t” in the syringe (the one they never recovered from Humble). They may easily dismiss her as a deviant. But, if they really explore the subject with the vets during the portions of the clinic that address horse care, they may get some very interesting observations/thoughts from the kids that came up through the pony and hunter ranks. Hope they broadcast that part!
@ Findeight, since you read the transcript too, am I correct that on page 77 (or thereabouts) it says that Gabby, the groom who may or may not have been the one who actually gave the shot, is “presumed illegal,” has disappeared, and has never provided an affidavit or been deposed?
Don’t suppose there is a live feed of the vet symposium on that??? They need to discuss the subject in general, even if they leave EM and her hoards of lawyers out of it. After all, one of their own just went down in a lawsuit referenced a couple opf pages ago.
I’d LOVE to sit in on that.
[QUOTE=War Admiral;6757362]
One thing I did want to throw out there for consideration, in terms of bringing some pressure to bear on USEF - and I don’t know HOW this could be done, but I assume that it COULD (and that the NYT article wouldn’t hurt) - is how about getting word to the USOC somehow that the NGB for equestrian sport is doing absolutely-effing-nothing to effect cleanup of the sport, and in view of recent decisions, said Federation has effectively rendered its protest procedure null and void?
I hate to play this kind of hard ball, I’d far rather USEF stood up for itself and did the right thing - but if we could push USEF to the point where they believed their standing as the official NGB was affected, THEN we might see some change.[/QUOTE]
Oh, trust me. I’ve already started that process. A perk of not only living where the USOC and Anti-Doping Agency are located, but having military Reserve coworkers who are full-time employees/coaches/trainers various sports within the USOC community. I don’t know how far it will go, but it definitely piqued the interest of one Paralympic trainer/coach in particular.
[QUOTE=Discobold;6757606]
@ Findeight, since you read to transcript too, am I correct that on page 77 (or thereabouts) it says that Gabby, the groom who may or may not have been the one who actually gave the shot, is “presumed illegal,” has disappeared, and has never provided an affidavit or been deposed?[/QUOTE]
I quit after page 10 and the late necropsy complicating any toxicology findings. I have been sipping the last of the bubbly and can’t follow the gibberish of hearing procedures at the moment. Besides the format is wierd.
Wouldn’t surprise me a bit tho. That very subject was referenced either here or on my Humble Initiative thread, expecting the “help” to do the deeds then blaming them for being “illegals” and vanishing. Crap, any groom regardless of status who was directed to give a shot and had the animal drop dead would probably split too.
EM has posted letters from her vets in New Jersey, Florida, and Juan Gamboa (NC and Classic Company’s show vet) on her amber hill farm Facebook page and many other documents. In their letters to the USEF they all praise EM for her horse’s care etc. Of course Gamboa spends most of the space in his letter stating that he never sold any Carolina Gold to EM. If he did, would he have stated that in a letter to the USEF? Of course not given the banning of it. Also attached to her Facebook page are letters from her landlord, a customer leasing one of her ponies, her husband, etc.
At the end of the day we will never know all the details…but the outcome of all this publicity is that going forward more people will be more sensitive as to who they do business with…trainers, vets, etc…and that somehow the USEF will find a way to be aggressive and severe where they can prove drug issues. Civil cases do not have the same guidelines as criminal matters but it seems as though the USEF in it’s hearings wants ironclad proof (tox reports, pictures, video or an admission of guilt) that an infraction has taken place. Black and White. Their current punishment for infractions are a joke and the recent USHJA cover photo is a testament to broken oversight. Can you search for all of SS’s disciplinary actions over the years on the USEF site? NO…you would have to look at every month’s “for the record” pages over the years. So the actions just fade away as each month comes and goes…washed away with the most recent turmoil.
Again, only EM knows what took place and to debate anything else is futile.
We need to get the USEF to be a real governing body with some serious teeth or see the demise of hunters…it may already be tooooo late for a new generation of youngsters whose parents read the NYT and are walking away from the child’s dream of owning a pony.
[QUOTE=findeight;6757611]
Don’t suppose there is a live feed of the vet symposium on that??? They need to discuss the subject in general, even if they leave EM and her hoards of lawyers out of it. After all, one of their own just went down in a lawsuit referenced a couple opf pages ago.
I’d LOVE to sit in on that.[/QUOTE]
Who is that vet?
[QUOTE=violethorse;6757352]
Why should she bother with Bayer if she settled with the insurance company? Do we know if they paid out a claim on Humble? Also, since the syringe was not seized, along with whatever was in it, there would not be a way that EM could prove that Legend was administered. No evidence, no suit…in this case it cuts both ways. Nobody knows what was administered except EM and that only benefits her claim that she did nothing wrong.[/QUOTE]
I was being a bit facetious! Of course we know it wasn’t Legend that killed Humble. But EM’s claim that Legend what was in the syringe makes it sound likes she’s saying Legend is the culprit. :rolleyes:
Big Pharma frowns on those types of accusations but I’m sure Bayer would figure out, as have the rest of us, that very few people are taking her claims seriously.
[QUOTE=poltroon;6757550]
Freebird, I think if you read it again you’ll conclude that the poster does not actually believe that an injection of Legend caused the pony’s death. However, with EM saying it did, if she is correct, then that leads down some, ahem, interesting paths.[/QUOTE]
Indeed. I would think that Bayer may be very interested in what Elizabeth Mandarino is saying about their product.
So I read the Chronicle of the Horse, is it as bad as all the big names I see there…on the cover as you said…I have loved the emergence of the Hunter Classics and Derbies…is it everyone that is drugging? I breed sport horses but I want nothing to do with risking selling drugged horses sent to be sold by trainers and fooling customers or selling to homes that use horses like that. Who is honest…I can see how you can risk legal action if you out the dishonest…is it naive to out the honest? I suppose so. How sad.
[QUOTE=findeight;6757624]
Wouldn’t surprise me a bit tho. That very subject was referenced either here or on my Humble Initiative thread, expecting the “help” to do the deeds then blaming them for being “illegals” and vanishing. Crap, any groom regardless of status who was directed to give a shot and had the animal drop dead would probably split too.[/QUOTE]
Back in my younger days, I was a working student/groom at a nationally winning barn in that breed’s equivalent of the A circuit during a similar type of reprehensible systemic abuse -that is still occurring these twenty years later.
I am second-generation mexican-american. My great-grandparents were migrant farmworkers. My BS degree is in the social sciences. I’m saying that because I don’t want this to come out wrong: If you really want to know what is happening at the big shows and in the big barns, take someone with you who speaks Spanish and go talk to the stable hands. They see everything and know exactly who is doing what to whom.
Because the stable hands tend are sometimes here in the US without legal immigration papers, they are afraid to speak for fear of deportation. My experience was that the BNTs had their “illegals” or “Mexicans” do the actual doping/soreing/whatever, so that if it was ever exposed, the BNT could then publicly profess innocence and blame everything on the now-fired or deported “illegal.”
Humans are an invasive species. Thank you all for sharing your expertise.
Regards,
Amber
[QUOTE=Carolinadreamin’;6757713]
Indeed. I would think that Bayer may be very interested in what Elizabeth Mandarino is saying about their product.[/QUOTE]
Bayer’s got very, very deep pockets. I have trouble believing that if it was one of their products in the syringe that killed poor Humble, EM wouldn’t have been putting that thing on dry ice, sending it off to a lab, and having it put in cold storage to provide evidence in a suit against Bayer. As lawsuit happy as she seems to be, its hard to believe she wouldn’t go after such a big payday.
[QUOTE=amberhill;6753016]
. It was a normal reaction to have as a human being who loved her pony. [/QUOTE]
Packing up and leaving the show grounds with the pony laying in the grooming stall is a normal reaction of someone who loves their pony???
Soooo… does EM even ride? Or has she ever ridden? Or was she just a “pony mom” as she stated in her one train wreck thread only four years ago, and has now somehow become a legend in her own mind? Wonder how one accomplishes that in four years. I have been riding for over twenty years now and still don’t have the knowledge and experience to be a trainer at the top levels. Nor would I trust myself to train a talented youngster on challenging ponies.
I guess that’s why there was a medication list a mile long. Sad.
[QUOTE=violethorse;6757646]
Who is that vet?[/QUOTE]
Haynes Stevens, malpractice in the death of a horse owned by a leading long time A/O see post #593 on this thread for a link to the details. It’s from 2011, not new.
[QUOTE=Kenike;6757618]
Oh, trust me. I’ve already started that process. A perk of not only living where the USOC and Anti-Doping Agency are located, but having military Reserve coworkers who are full-time employees/coaches/trainers various sports within the USOC community. I don’t know how far it will go, but it definitely piqued the interest of one Paralympic trainer/coach in particular.[/QUOTE]
I would be very interested to know how M’s 9 lawyers involved the USOC/Ted Stevens Act to get her suspension lifted ? After all Pony Hunters are not normally considered an " international" discipline.
