Keep children away from Hunters and Equitation. A big waste of money, and lots of frustration as it is mostly based on how much money you spend on horse, medications, vets and more important politics.
Many thanks to the person who took the time to compile and post this list.
Yes, it could have more information, but THANK YOU for compiling the names, thus making searching for more information possible.
And, yes, it would be better if it went back further, but now we have a list that goes back 5 years. If anyone out there wants to do 1998 - 2008, have at it.
But I have read more moaning about the list’s deficiencies than I have heard “thank you” for making the list and posting it.
I am sorry if I gave everyone the wrong impression; that list I’ve posted so far only contains 2008-2010. I have two years still to post. I will post soon.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6764783]
And the USEF still won’t require positive ID, chips, and passports.
Don’t I recall that it was only the past two or three years that changing Identities was “officially” deemed a violation, and so emphasized by the USEF?[/QUOTE]
Why do you think that’s a true statement ?? Facts please !!
There has been a rule about misrepresentation since at least 2007, probably much earlier, that’s just the last rule book I have saved.
While I think some sort of verification of age should be required for classes that award points on age or proof of breed for those sections that use breed, requiring a ‘passport’ is beyond silly. Simply more fees to USEF.
Chips are not a solution. But copies of breed or registry papers in some situations at least describe the horse and give age and breed.
Thank you for the list. How do we find out the sentence they received and the infraction?
Are there any legal ramifications with purchasing a domain name like “USEF Rule Violations and Suspensions” and putting up a website with the info as others have suggested? GoDaddy.com is reasonable for getting a domain name. Then someone would have to throw up a website, host it and maintain it, but it’s fairly easy if someone had the time to do so.
[QUOTE=PINE TREE FARM SC;6765651]
There has been a rule about misrepresentation since at least 2007, probably much earlier, that’s just the last rule book I have saved.
While I think some sort of verification of age should be required for classes that award points on age or proof of breed for those sections that use breed, requiring a ‘passport’ is beyond silly. Simply more fees to USEF.
Chips are not a solution. But copies of breed or registry papers in some situations at least describe the horse and give age and breed.[/QUOTE]
Why is a passport silly and microchips not a solution? There are a lot of horses who get new identities (along with a new age and breeding -without papers of course) when they change hands and such proof of identity would stop the fraud.
So you would want to spend the time (and extra money) at EVERY show for a horse presentation to verify that the passport matched the horse?
It would at the very least add five dedicated people to that job, including a vet. While you wouldn’t have to jog, the presentation itself and checking of the passport takes the most time at the FEI jogs.
One day shows would never be able to handle it. And god forbid the description doesn’t match the passport in one vet’s opinion.
Micro chips would be more doable provided the reader was not outrageously expensive or could be rented easily. The concept has been toyed with for years, except it was having one at the gate to “read” the horse number to avoid getting incorrect information sent to the judge (or none at all). Idea was to have something on the back of the number.
You are already required to provide proof of age for the Young Jumpers (a few different options are available).
[QUOTE=leyla25;6765354]
Keep children away from Hunters and Equitation. A big waste of money, and lots of frustration as it is mostly based on how much money you spend on horse, medications, vets and more important politics.[/QUOTE]
And sadly, these used to be the disciplines you wanted to start kids in. It taught them tact and accuracy before adding speed and even more accuracy (plus tact, ideally).
I grew up with some people who didn’t know what they were doing with their horses and therefore wanted to put me into the jumper ring where kicking and pulling was ok, so long as it got the job done.
I have done many discipline since, even the jumpers a little bit. But the experience soured me on the division. No desire to be again in that “you gotta go for broke” position.
Pine Tree Farm, you’re being knee jerk negative. The rest of the world uses passports that have to go with the animal. The rest of the world (EU anyway) has moved to chips, as has most of racing worldwide. The FEI now requires all new FEI registrants to be chipped.
When you go to any horse competition, you have to show a current Coggins. They are SUPPOSED to ID the horse, but as we all know the descriptions are very generic. If you can provide a Coggins to show management, you can certainly provide a passport. Same thing, just different paper.
Require passports to reflect medications; send a fax or copy of the passport with your registration at the show or turn in copies at the show office. Then have someone at the in-gate with a chip reader and a laptop to note the results. Go back to the secretary’s office and match the chip with the passport-- or even just send the numbers to a USEF database that will do the matching. Sure, it’s after the fact; but discrepancies would/SHOULD result in discipline from USEF. And if testing shows medications that are not listed in the passport, that would be grounds for discipline as well.
After a couple of years, everyone would be just as used to this as they are to the Coggins requirement.
I honestly fail to see how you can prove horse age in age related competition if you don’t have papers or a passport and proof that the horse is the one in the documentation.
I’m sure that show managements and the USEF would find it very easy to learn how the Europeans and FEI use passports without bringing their horse shows to grinding halts. I might also add that European competitions are already much, much cheaper than American ones.
Edited to add on the misrepresentation business–my time sense is seriously warped. I just remember after one or another big mistake , the USEF put out a press release/public notice that they were going to slap hands on this. I honestly thought there was a rule change involved.
Last summer I was surprised in reading the COTH preview article on the Hunter Derby Finals, how many horses were listed as having unknown pedigree. Coming from the TB world, I find it hard to believe how many folks will say “He’s branded Oldenburg, but we have no idea his breeding” even when speaking of one of the elite cometitors in our sport. I am left guessing that at some point many of these horses were misrepresented at some point, often in a transaction that cost the buyer far more than it should. Permaent ID (like chip) will help. Even if every horse isn’t scanned, knowing that (say) half the horses at a given show could be checked might make folks think twice. Possibly the rule might suggest that every USEF registered horse be scanned at least once annually at a sanctioned show.
[QUOTE=Molly99;6765737]
It would at the very least add five dedicated people to that job, including a vet. One day shows would never be able to handle it. [/QUOTE]
It would depend on what the criteria were: passport, microchip or simply a copy of the registration/recordation certificate w/ photograph. Quite honestly, the breed shows I attend require e-Coggins (with photograph) AND a Statement of Registration/Recorded Ownership (available from the breed registry, downloadable in PDF format) of the horse’s papers. The names and numbers need to match or YOU DON’T SHOW. And I processed an entire morning’s worth of entries all by my little lonesome the last time I volunteered.
So once again, it CAN be done; it’s that USEF just doesn’t seem to want to.
ETA, to Linny: Yeah, amazing isn’t it… Of course it all starts b/c the trainer doesn’t want the owner to know how much s/he really paid for it… And also b/c some of the very starriest of rock star horses in the hunters over here are culls from European breeders, b/c by European standards they’re so embarrassingly sh*t that the breeding program doesn’t want anything to do with them, and in fact probably paid the importing trainer a good bit to make sure horsie’s papers went “poof”! :lol: Now, you and I and a few other people know this ain’t NO way to build a breed - which is why I don’t play on the dumbblood playground - but we also all know all the trainer has to do is say disparagingly “You can’t put a saddle on a pedigree” and all the clueless sheeple will fall in line and fork out six figures…
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6765969]
The FEI now requires all new FEI registrants to be chipped… Then have someone at the in-gate with a chip reader and a laptop to note the results. Go back to the secretary’s office and match the chip with the passport-- or even just send the numbers to a USEF database that will do the matching. [/QUOTE]
Required chips and required scanning will result in more fees and higher costs for all exhibitors, when many people are already getting priced out of recognized shows.
There is no way to compare FEI procedures, which apply to a relatively small number of horses competing at the highest levels, to practical use for every animal at the USEF shows, from the short stirrup ponies to the 2’6" hunters to all the children’s/adult jumpers, etc.
And who would track down all the horses in November that haven’t been scanned yet for the year? What if they’re not going to another show until the spring?
I got my dog microchipped for $30, and it is recorded and on record.
What’s the terrible expense for tracking a dog?
I may be wrong, but it’s my understanding that FEI procedures or something very close apply to every horse competition in Europe. Over there, people care about the breeding of competition horses, so ID is an important part of the whole sport.
European shows are MUCH cheaper than anything we have over here. If the Id procedure were so burdensome and expensive, it would be reflected in the cost of showing.
BTW, microchip scanners that can read 15 digit chips that are FEI compliant cost less than $350 and can be rented. They are even cheaper if you buy them in Ireland. 
[QUOTE=MHM;6766041]
Required chips and required scanning will result in more fees and higher costs for all exhibitors, when many people are already getting priced out of recognized shows.
There is no way to compare FEI procedures, which apply to a relatively small number of horses competing at the highest levels, to practical use for every animal at the USEF shows, from the short stirrup ponies to the 2’6" hunters to all the children’s/adult jumpers, etc.
And who would track down all the horses in November that haven’t been scanned yet for the year? What if they’re not going to another show until the spring?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=BaroquePony;6766060]
I got my dog microchipped for $30, and it is recorded and on record.
What’s the terrible expense for tracking a dog?[/QUOTE]
My dog also has a microchip, but I don’t have to get it scanned every time I take him to the dog park. If I did, I would expect the dog park use to cost much more, since there would need to be employees paid to scan every dog at the gate, then compare the chip to the records on file.
I can see the value of having a microchip to verify the identity of a horse when it gets sold, but that’s not the same as having the scan done ten or twenty or thirty times a year at every show.
[QUOTE=vineyridge;6766063]
I may be wrong, but it’s my understanding that FEI procedures or something very close apply to every horse competition in Europe. Over there, people care about the breeding of competition horses, so ID is an important part of the whole sport.
European shows are MUCH cheaper than anything we have over here. If the Id procedure were so burdensome and expensive, it would be reflected in the cost of showing. [/QUOTE]
When I was in Europe, the national (that is, non-FEI) shows seemed to be pretty relaxed. They did not seem to be too wrapped up in procedures, but that was a while ago, so maybe things have changed since then.
There was certainly a huge difference in paperwork and security between the FEI shows and the local competitions where everybody took all their young horses for mileage.
War Admiral, at that time passports were very new in the UK. You notice that the “offender” said that she usually bought horses from Ireland where they were all microchipped and she just paid the Irish Horse Board to change the name that went with the chip.
The chip scanning would be a deterrent, much as drug testing is INTENDED to be. If people knew that there was a reasonable chance that their horse would be scanned at shows, maybe they wouldn’t play fast and loose with identity.
Have a passport with photo or markings and a chip number. Send a copy of the passport to the show when you register. Have horses (some or all) scanned when they went in the ingate–maybe you could do more than just the current one while the classes wait for trainers to appear.
Then send the data to the USEF for a decent database to do the matches. The show would send a list of entrants and their passport numbers and a list of the numbers that came out of the scanner. Connect the scanner to a laptop to generate the list.
The IRS does matching constantly with tax documents from hundreds of millions of people–or is supposed to.
This really isn’t rocket science.
The US Post Office uses scanners for registered packages. It can’t cost that much 
.
