Newbie Advice Needed - Daughter wants to do more in Hunter/Jumper

Hi, first post here. My oldest daughter is about to turn 11 and equestrian is her life. She has been riding for around 5-years now and competed the past 2-3 years in various Hunter classes locally. She is a gifted rider who usually excels well beyond her age and has won many of the shows she has entered. She is passionate, driven, and dedicated. In addition to riding 2x per week (which is the max her barn will allow right now), she also excels at school and does crossfit workouts with us multiple times a week to make sure she is doing her part.

Over the summer, we asked her what her long-term plan was and she confidently and quickly said that she wants to ride at a NCAA level college and then see where her passion for the sport takes her (she even mentioned aiming for the Olympics when she is 18+). So, we naturally want to support her goal and passion (while also speaking with her about realistic expectations and possible burn out at some point). For reference, we are blessed to have multiple national level athletes in our family (tennis, gymnastics, cheerleading, etc) so we know the demands of national level competition. But she is our first in equestrian and we simply don’t know what we don’t know.

To date we have gotten by with her riding 2x per week using various “lesson” horses (and ponies before that). We are with a great barn and her coaches challenge her a lot and she responds accordingly. She seems to like a diversity of horses, figuring out their natural tendencies and has been known to have her coaches say things like “wow, we’ve never seen XYZ horse do that before”. We’re also fortunate that the barns she belongs to like to see her win, so they usually put her on a “show” caliber horse that simply isn’t leased at that time. But now, with her getting older, we can tell that this is beginning to change and are feeling the pressure to “go to the next level” this year or next year.

Specifically, her barn would like to see us do a full lease of a “show” caliber horse as a next step. Financially, this would take our annual expenses up by 5-6 times what we are currently paying annually, plus unforeseen expenses. In return, the horse will be dedicated to her, and she to the horse for a full year. But, from what we can tell, nothing else seems to change very much beyond the fact that we’ll be showing our financial commitment to the barn in the process and therefore she might get to go to more A-rated shows in the Spring or next Fall. But her weekly riding time doesn’t change.

Given that the equestrian world is just so new to us, we just want to make sure we are doing this the right way without getting into too many personal specifics. While we 100% want to support her goals and passions, we also want to make sure we aren’t simply paying our way through the sport as we definitely don’t have an unlimited budget. In reality, we could change our family spending habits and afford this full lease concept, but it will take sacrifices and we just aren’t certain how to value what we are getting in return vs what she is already doing now.

So, I guess my question is this. How have you seen gifted, passionate young riders be able to ride and compete without their families being able to spend upper 5-figures or even lower 6-figures each year to support their sport? Is this just the way it is now, only the ultra-wealthy can truly compete, and we either suck it up or have her move on to another sport? Or are there other ways to do it that maybe our lack of knowledge and/or connections in the equestrian space have simply not afforded us the ability to see? I.e. Tying this back to her long-term goal, does every NCAA level rider come from an ultra-wealthy family, or are there other ways for her to get there that we just don’t know about?

Thanks so much in advance for your guidance and I hope we are placing this topic in the right area.

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Generally when you are leasing a horse, you can ride more than twice per week. As you are seeing, the costs to maintain a horse at the caliber of the level your daughter wants to compete at are going to be higher than what could be recouped by lesson fees for a trainer to provide a horse, so generally in order to advance to higher jumps or higher level shows, you’ll need to lease or purchase a horse. Having her own horse available should mean she can ride 4-5 days a week and you may wish to ask the trainer if additional opportunity will still be available for extra saddle time. A talented smaller rider often will have a lot of opportunity to ride green ponies, but you have to be in the right place at the right time. I would also look into local IEA programs for additional opportunity that’s generally pretty reasonable cost wise.

Things that are likely the same for equestrian sport as the other sports you mentioned: The more time practicing, the better the skill development. The better quality instruction, the better the skill development. Some great coaches for the older ages are not great coaches for the younger ages. Going all-in on the youth sport time committment often means online school later on. Some adult involved needs to be able to pump the breaks and keep in mind these are kids, not professional athletes.

Things that are likely different than other sports you mention: It is harder to determine if your daughter’s coach has previous success coaching children for what you want to do. There can be a bit of a cult leader type vibe within training programs such that you might not be getting objective information. Getting to an equestrian training facility is probably a longer drive than to a cheer gym. There is a whole extra being involved whose management becomes your responsibility, and while the horse is the reason why all of us are here, making sure that your daughter has the right partner at the right time is critically important and can easily be sidetracked by someone involved making either an emotional decision because they love Dobbin’s face marking and know they have a special bond that will overcome Dobbin’s objective issues. I encourage you to make friends with some other parents (ideally not in your immediate area so as not to start drama/gossip) with kids a little older than yours who seem well adjusted and successful based on your standards and have them around as a sounding board.

When you ask if I have seen gifted and passionate riders make it to NCAA without having gazillionaire families, the answer is absolutely yes. I helped a young lady who got a full ride without a big show record, but for every 1 of those I have seen, there are probably 100 parents out there who don’t have a great frame of reference on exactly how good/talented their kid is, and spend a lot of time being the big fish in a small pond which isn’t going to develop the skill set to make one of those slots. Not having a horse of her own at all, leased or otherwise, would likely be a non starter for getting to those top levels simply because without that, she probably won’t be able to ride enough to develop those skills. I am sure with all the natural talent in the world, the williams sisters wouldn’t have accomplished what they did only playing tennis twice a week with a coach that has never coached someone past local round robins, but for some reason a lot of parents seem to think that should work for equestrian sport.

I am happy to discuss more particulars via DM if you want. I think you are asking a lot of the right questions.

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Take my thoughts with a grain of salt, as I’ve been out of H/J competition for decades.
But, with a full lease, why can’t DD ride on her own at least 1 add’l day per week?
NOT over jumps, but on the flat.
Would leased horse be solely DD’s ride?
Or is it possible another lease kid would be riding horse too?

Have you figured the increased cost of A shows into your budget?
Back in my day, a stall at a B show was $X, the same stall, same venue, at the A show the next week was $XX.
Same for entries, groom & trainer’s fees.

Wishing DD success but more than that: Happiness.
If riding/showing isn’t fun, then why do it?

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It really depends on what level you are riding and competing at. What height is she jumping now? What horsemanship skills does she have?

Ten is very young and it sounds like she is off to a good start. However, if she loves horses then early tweens is a good time to get your own horse. For reference I got my first horse at 14 and did self board in a small backyard situation completely run by teens with no intelligent adult input. I called the vet, the farrier, ordered hay and did all the chores myself. My parents helped move hay and drove me to the feed store. It was fantastic.

Obviously I wasn’t competing seriously out of that set up and had no lessons. But it taught me a lot. In particular that competition is a very small part of horsemanship. Also that hours in the saddle really matter. Especially unsupervised hours

A person who does not or cannot ride unsupervised or without constant coach direction is not a good rider. You need to be able to problem solve and school and train independently.

A few thoughts in no particular order.

  1. Riding NCAA in college is not a pipeline to being a pro rider or going into AA rated shows. It is not comparable to playing basketball or football in college and being recruited onto a pro team.

  2. A passion for horses is a wonderful thing and a true lifelong sport. Athletic and fearless children can make a lot of progress. That said, an 11 year old who has been riding twice a week is off to a nice start, but simply isn’t getting the saddle time to make significant progress. She may well be ahead of other children riding a similar amount, but as she reaches her teens she will fall behind the kids who have their own horses.

  3. I would put the Olympics fantasy on hold for now. To qualify for the Olympics in jumper, dressage or eventing requires racking up points in the FEI international circuit which requires travel around North America. It requires show jumping at 4 feet plus or dressage Grand Prix. There is a huge range of competition between here and there which newbies and juniors aren’t aware of

Every area has a spectrum of nonrated shows and also A rated shows. Many children start off in the more controlled, slower paced hunter ring, and the top tier of junior competition in the USA is the highly competitive Maclay Equitation medals series. By the time they are teens, juniors on this path may be home schooling or working students for top trainers to accomplish this.

  1. Once you get past the basics your trainer really really matters if you want to go into the higher realms. Where I live there’s a healthy showing scene of juniors and ammies in rated and unrated shows up to 3 feet. Then there is a very small number of folks doing the 4 to 5 foot jumps and going places like Spruce Meadows. I went and watched them school once through a friend. Otherwise the paths never cross.

  2. Horses is multifaceted. You need to consider the horse as a person, not a tool or machine. Many many horse pros have very satisfying careers without going anywhere near the high end. They start or restart horses, they teach beginners, they school to 3 foot and sell, or do USEF/USDF dressage.

  3. If you want to really progress in riding and horsemanship you need to ride daily and do most of your own horse care. An expensive lease that gets you two days a week is not a good deal.

  4. Showing constantly on “made” horses is not a real test of riding or horsemanship even if you are winning. There are going to be loads of holes in the skillset of anyone who does this especially a ten year old

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If you’re full leasing a horse, I would expect to ride more than twice a week. Is that two rides a week plus showing on the weekend?

If the “deal” is a full lease, but the horse will be ridden by a trainer the other days of the week, and your daughter still can’t ride outside of two weekly lessons, I would look for a different barn or option. Especially for a child, learning how to ride a horse independently is vital.

Now, only jumping twice a week, plus shows, sure.

It’s a little odd for a lesson barn to have a stable full of lesson horses, plus higher end leases in my area of the country. Regardless, if you’re comfortable sharing what area of the country where you are (even vaguely) other COTHers might be able to offer advice about whether it’s a good program or not, or make other suggestions.

What level of showing is your daughter showing at? What height, classes, and so forth?

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This sounds very odd to me. Normally when you have a full lease, even WITHIN a lesson barn, you can ride that horse at least 5 days a week, not just the two days you have lesson.

Being able to ride 5 or 6 days a week will help her riding to improve MUCH faster than 2 days a week.

I am not sure why anyone would put “ride at a NCAA level college” as a goal. It gives you the opportunity to ride in college, but it isn’t a stepping stone to anything else.

It is difficult to compete at the international level (let alone being selected for the Olympics) without a serious bankroll, either from family, or from a sponsor/ horse owner.

But love of horses, riding, and a knowledge of horse care can bring you a lifetime of satisfaction, on a middle class, or upper middle class, income.

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Thank you, this is extremely helpful advice. We’ll start out by talking with her current coach about riding time. Maybe we simply misunderstood as she said 2x lessons per week (but didn’t specify unsupervised saddle time).

I love the way you tied equestrian back to the sports we do know so well - thank you for that! We’ll also be asking questions about our coach’s success in coaching our other athletes. And she is absolutely a big fish in a small pond, but the barns we’ve been too make it seem like you have to spend $$$ to even get the chance to do bigger shows and progress (which never felt right to me). So, we’re excited to see just how big the pond is and how she fares on bigger stages, but don’t want to break the bank in the process.

Immediately, an increase in saddle time seems like the first area of focus! We’ll definitely take you up on the offer to discuss more particulars when needed! Thank you for your encouragement.

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Agreed. This was for a Full Lease (not shared) and I assume the horse would be ridden by staff or others (maybe even at lessons) on days she isn’t riding. Which again, didn’t seem to fit our expectations either. Increased saddle time is key. But staying focused on the Happiness part is also going to be a big focus for us as her parents.

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This sounds like a half lease.

At many lesson barns, once a student is capable, after taking lessons once or twice a week, some horses are available for half lease.

I understand the question “what does this add, value-wise” because usually the current lessons are part of the lease package. In other words, the student gains the assurance of riding the lease horse on lesson days, but may only get in an extra day of riding. The half-leased horse will still be used on the days the half-leaser isn’t riding.

However, the half lease may still be attractive because it’s a nicer horse that can “do” more, and there are more showing options. Plus, riding independently even for a single day (preferably 2) is a big bonus.

Barns differ, but I wouldn’t pay 6X more than I was currently riding for a horse that was still being ridden in lessons on days I wasn’t riding, couldn’t ride outside of lessons, and could only ride 2X a week.

Would you be responsible for vet and farrier costs for the leased horse?

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Don’t assume anything.
Ask for a look at the proposed lease on paper.
If Pro or assistants will ride that s/b specified as to when, how many rides & if that includes at shows.
I’d be hesitant to pay a Full Lease on a horse that would be ridden in lessons by anyone other than the lessee.

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Thank you for this! I think her goals and even my questions/comments above also reflect our lack of experience in this space. My apologies for that! Getting her own horse is certainly not out of the question, but at her age we’re fearful of “locking anything in” as she might outgrow a horse that fits her today very quickly tomorrow (as she has done with 3-4 lesson horses already) and we want to do the right thing for these amazing animals. Buying and Selling horses feels like a big learning curve and we likely just aren’t there yet.

Right now she is doing Short Stirrup at shows and lessons (I think that is either 2’ or 2’6" maybe, but this may be completely wrong as again we don’t know what we don’t know).

I love your comments about unsupervised riding. We have to find a way to get there without breaking the bank! More saddle time will be a key focus for us now given your points above!

Olympics are a far off fantasy/dream for sure. But we only know what she has been exposed too - which is seeing the most successful equestrian riders at her barn go off and ride in college. Maybe there will be a new goal that arises, but for now I think her goals and aspirations simply show us that she is committed for the long term and wants to pursue this sport with all her might.

Yes, she is showing in the hunter ring in non-rated shows today. She wants to do A rated shows more, but we’re often told that the next step to getting there is leasing a horse (which again feels a bit odd to us, but what do we know).

Your comments are super helpful, and also show us that we still have a TON of learning to do. But I think the immediate next step is a focus on the coach, saddle-time, and understanding how a larger financial commitment somehow puts her on a better track for success. They need to sell us on that with facts and figures, not emotions, and so far I haven’t seen any real proof that us paying more will really put her on a new, elevated path toward the goals she may or may not even know about yet.

Just one thought in addition to what others have offered: if she enjoys jumping, perhaps she’d like to consider eventing? It tends to be more financially accessible than hunter/jumper competition, especially on the leasing side. You can often half-lease or lease a decent lower-level horse just by covering its monthly expenses, rather than the full-year five-figure lease fees common in the HJ world. It’s also IMHO a very good way to become a well-rounded rider because one must learn three different disciplines: dressage (flatwork that is sort of like gymnastics for the horse), cross-country jumping (galloping/jumping on varying terrain), and show jumping in an arena like she does now. If she is interested and you’d like to post your general area, posters may have suggestions of eventing programs to check out.

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Yes, it’s becoming abundantly clear that either we’re confused on the structure (highly likely) or we’re being sold. They said lessons don’t change, but didn’t say anything about riding in non-lesson formats. And for shows, it was 1 a month that was discussed. Now armed with your comments, we’re going to start asking some more questions! :slight_smile:

Yes, this barn and our prior barn really have 2 different sides to them. Literally the Higher End Owned/Leased Horses are in 1 barn and usually ride in the larger arena unless weather is bad and the Lesson Horses are in another area and usually ride in the covered arena with 1 trip up to the larger arena a month.

She is just doing Short Stirrup currently (and I sadly don’t know what height that means!).

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What you’re describing sounds like a half lease.

There really is no absolute “industry standard” but here is a very rough breakdown:

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Yes, we’d be responsible for the Lease, a Lease Commission to the barn, Monthly Board, Vet Bills, Show Trim, Mane Pull, Farrier, and Insurance.

They described it as a Full Lease and the costs certainly reflect that (at 5-6x our current costs). Note that we considered a Half Lease at a prior barn (so we are familiar with that concept), but ultimately left that barn after they essentially told us she wouldn’t be allowed to progress her learning without entering a lease structure. This new barn is much better lesson and coaching wise (we have much more confidence that they can truly coach her), but we definitely need to dig into the details of this lease structure more and overall saddle time expectations and what the horse is doing on days she isn’t there!

Got it - thank you!

Yes, we didn’t even know Eventing existed! We’ll start looking into this now too.

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I’m not sure why everyone is saying that this sounds like a half-lease. Very few riders take more than two jumping lessons per week, which is what it sounds like OP’s trainer is telling them. On the other days, DD would be free to ride the horse independently, which, OP, you’ll find is going to be very critical to your DD’s improvement as a rider.

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Only two rides a week in lessons, one show a month, horse still used in lessons by other riders, no independent riding, and paying the horse’s full costs?

That would be a yikes, no for me.

@Tha_Ridge–if it’s only two days of jumping a week, plus independent riding on the flat as she pleases, I agree, that’s normal and completely fair.

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OP is making a lot of ASSumptions and even admitted as much. Nowhere was any of what you just said confirmed.

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