Newbie Advice Needed - Daughter wants to do more in Hunter/Jumper

I wish I could like your whole post 20 times but this part here is the core of it.

We all remember the “good old days” with some amount of rose-tinted glasses. And reality for most people is different than those of us lucky enough to keep horses in the yard or afford/commute to an ideal program.

Telling someone that they’re ruining their child by riding in a (assuming here) decent program, doing what they can with what’s available, and asking good questions is a bit… unrealistic and unnecessary.

I’d actually rather a child learn to ride in some sort of guided program getting 2-3 days in the saddle, than a parent buy the child a random horse and turn said kid loose 7 days a week.

22 Likes

Just a comment on the commission - from experience in the barn I work in. There is always the possibility that the horse isn’t owned by the barn/trainer/whoever is running the program, and is there to get sold/leased/tried/worked/whatever. If that’s the case, and the trainer leases the horse to one of her clients, the lease money would be going to the actual owner of the horse, in which case yes, SOMEONE should be paying a commission, whether it’s the lesser or the lessee or a combination of the two. Even if the horse has been in the program for years and you assume the program owns the horse, it’s not uncommon for a trainer to re-lease a horse into their program year after year, especially if the owner likes the program.

4 Likes

Yes. Loose kids don’t usually turn out very well, unless they’ve already got a basic foundation or are in some sort of program. I had a couple of years of lessons, then got my first horse at age 12 and boarded it a barn where I had taken lessons. The horse was unsuitable and I couldn’t ride him, so my parents got one of the instructors to give me private help.

It was a low-priced rinky-dink barn, but I got the help I needed.

After a while we moved to a place with acreage, so had horses at home. But without the lessons and help with the horse I’d already gotten, plus horsey neighbors and an excellent 4-H program, I would have been lost.

7 Likes

I agree with what you’re saying, but OP’s original question was just how to support her daughter advancing in riding and if it was possible to do so without spending a fortune. The extra ride time and full lease were the trainer’s suggestion (suggestions I agree with if we’re taking the goals of going to the Olympics and competing NCAA at face value).

I think it’s important to let OP know that there’s a range of options that can help her daughter move up, not just in an “if that’s all you can do” kind of way but as a genuine path to improvement. I think we can all agree that more ride time (on suitable horses, with competent instruction) is better, but a half lease or just adding extra lessons when possible are still good options. As others have pointed out, there’s a huge spectrum of competition to explore that has nothing to do with the stated goals.

5 Likes

My point was that the terms of the full lease appeared to be unclear, regarding how much extra ride time she’d be getting. Assuming this is a legit full lease, on a suitable horse, yes, it could be a great opportunity–but the family needs to determine if the costs outweigh the benefits.

I totally agree that a half lease, extra lessons, clinics, horse camps, riding vacations, volunteering, and other ways are also great and more affordable ways to broaden one’s horsey education!

5 Likes

Loose riders of any age, really, if they don’t have solid basics already. Maybe you learn to stick on a nappy horse, but you are going to have a LOT of holes to fill in later. I’m still trying to fix so many bad habits from my feral years. I don’t regret those years at all, but if I could go back and have been in a good lesson program with my horse all that time, I’d do it in a heartbeat.

I think there is so much to be gained from being able to just have a day you hop on bareback and have fun, or play around with no stirrups, or go hack out and explore with some friends (and I greatly encourage it for anyone that part leases my horse). But if you also want to learn to truly ride a horse, there needs to be some structure too, just like any other sport.

8 Likes

For an adult, yes.
But we’re talking about a 10yo.
I doubt any lessor is going to want that liability.

I never leased my horse, but did have (adult) shareboarders. All I required was 1/2 board costs. If they had wanted to show (none did) I’d have expected to split shoeing & vet costs as well.
For the 1 & only novice rider, I required a weekly lesson with my trainer.

UPDATE, and my apologies upfront for the LONG post:
In appreciation of all the feedback this community has given us, I promised an update, so here it is. I wanted to get to a place of stability before I returned to this form, which took a few months since our first post last August. Many things have happened since then.

First, we turned down the offer to lease the fancy show horse. It just didn’t feel right and would have stretched us financially. About 2-weeks later, another rider jumped on the opportunity (I saw the parent writing the huge check), which was hard to see, but we stuck to our gut. Honestly, I think that decision changed things for us at our barn. Not out of spite, but more out of availability. Her trainer was still amazing and she was still treated exactly the same as before. But following that other horse’s lease, our daughter was limited solely to riding an older “pasture” pony in all of her lessons that she had only ridden occasionally before and used to rank last or second to last in terms of her “Favorites”. In reality, there simply wasn’t another option available for her to ride any more.

To be honest, it was a great experience for her despite being rough at the start. Within a month or so of “tough lessons”, and a bit of emotion that followed, she was able to take that older pony and together they learned to ride on-par and sometimes better than all the other girls on their “show caliber” horses. I was proud and impressed. We kept that up for what seems like 3-4 months and she learned a ton. But then reality sank in. We signed up for the most local of local shows and of course, the only horse available was that pony. They honestly rode well together, but it was very evident that they simply couldn’t compete and she didn’t place well. We had proactively set expectations upfront (it was all for fun, and we didn’t invite family members to be spectators so there wouldn’t be any pressure) and she was fine. But for us, it was a lot of money for a terrible finish and confirmed that this needed to be a short-term thing.

Looking back, I personally think those months with that older pony were one of the best things that could have happened for her/us. She learned how to take a difficult pony and not only create a partnership with it, but actually get it to ride well beyond its abilities. It may not have looked great aesthetically all the time (especially compared to the other expensive horses in her group), but they truly rode well together. He taught her so many things that she simply wouldn’t have learned without being forced into that position. For example, how to handle a pony that freaks out and won’t slow down or listen in the middle of the part of the lesson where they were practicing no stirrup cantering over verticals! While I knew it to be true, that experience proved my theory that long-term riders are not born out of an environment where children are placed on top of high-end horses and let the horse take it from there. They need to be forced into a situation where they have to be the Rider, not merely a Passenger. I cannot thank that old stubborn pony enough for the time he spent with her - and I’d like to think he learned a thing or two from her as well. We called this time her “Trials” period, and tried our best to enjoy the challenge each week, showing up with a smile and never complaining. It helped that on multiple occasions we were encouraged by other parents or riders who said things like “Wow, she handled that really well!” or “That was amazing, I would have definitely fallen off!”.

Ultimately though we had to face reality. We were still spending the same $ as before. While she was learning a ton, her learning was visibly plateauing and we knew we couldn’t compete at the barrage of shows that would be starting in the Spring. So, we needed to find a pony/horse that could be a partner with her, teach her, perform decently well at shows, and not break the bank. Unfortunately, after a few discussions with her trainer and the barn, we quickly determined that this simply couldn’t happen there. So, we once again were on hunt for what’s next.

Now much better armed with what we’d learned from the advice of this community, friends in our area, and the knowledge I had gathered through my own research (including reading A Man Walks Into A Barn due to the outstanding recommendation on this forum), I felt we were better prepared. While certainly over-simplifying all the wisdom contributed here throughout the hundreds of replies, we held tight to a few key takeaways:

  1. Focus on more saddle time, more show time, and more barn time. Don’t focus on the rating of the show, the caliber of the horse, or the ribbons/rankings.
  2. Keep your sights on the short term (#1 above), not on the long term (NCAA, etc). The path to get her wherever she is destined to go will reveal itself in time.
  3. Take each step in moderation and learn everything you can from it. Don’t go from a field pony to a top A-Rated $$$ Show Ready, fully calibrated horse in one giant leap.

We toured 2-3 barns and spoke with others who have been where we were before, but nothing really stuck. Some didn’t have many horses. Some didn’t have the facilities for Fall (when it gets dark early) or Rainy Day lessons. We were at a loss. Ultimately, I’d say we then “stumbled” into our new barn. There’s a very small % of kids her age that ride horses where we live and one of her best friends happens to be one of them. She and her mom listened to our concerns and encouraged us to visit their barn. It was farther away than we were hoping to go (which is why it wasn’t originally on the list), but we decided to give it a shot anyway. She said the 4-5 girls from our area carpool together with parents sharing the load, which helped.

Long story short, we’ve now been at that new barn for 4-months. It’s a bit smaller and certainly far from perfect, but it adheres to our goals stated above:

  1. She has officially leased a 7-year old pony who is proven at the barn, does great in lessons and on flatwork days, looks great aesthetically (they make a nice pair), and they can learn as a team as they progress together into show season this Spring (he hasn’t been shown much).
  2. All in, we’re leasing this pony, paying for all feed/upkeep, and doing lessons for less than we were paying for just 2 weekly lessons at the prior barn. So, financially we’re actually ahead.
  3. She’s now doing 2 lessons a week and ideally 1 day of flatwork as well whenever we can make the drive. They also have really long “Barn Days” where she and the other riders show up at 9 and leave around 3 on weekends or school holidays. She has made some amazing new friends and it truly feels like she belongs.
  4. While some of the lessons may not be as “advanced” as the prior barn, she is still learning a ton and progressing well.
  5. Finally, we knew nothing about IEA given that all the prior barns simply didn’t participate. But on day 1, we took a risk and committed to joining their IEA team mid-flight and did 3 of the 5 shows.

In case this helps someone else, here’s what I’ve learned about IEA. First, you’re competing both as an Individual and a Team. I really like the Team part! Second, the horse you ride is chosen via random selection of the horses the trainers from each barn choose to bring. So nobody can “buy” a win with an “automatic” horse like they can in HJA. Over time, I think this really helps reveal the best riders regardless of the horse, and hone rider skills across a more diverse showing experience. Finally, it’s much more affordable than HJA type shows in our experience. There are some downsides, including super long days and not a ton of riding time per rider, but you get to know the other parents, she gets to hang out with other riders and horses for hours and hours, and you truly feel like a part of a Team instead of just an individual. Her team won every show that she participated in, ended up winning their local area, went to Regionals and placed Reserve Champion. She won 1st place for her Team in her class at Regionals, but it wasn’t quite enough (and she wasn’t able to compete Individually because we missed the first 2 shows while we were at the prior barn). I think we’ll be doing IEA again next year!

So, that’s where we stand. She’ll be going to her lesson today on her green, but not too green pony. They had to work on flying lead changes for a few weeks, but are pretty close to mastery now. They are getting ready for Children’s Pony HJA shows in the Spring. While she still talks about riding in college (NCAA Div 1 is still the Goal), we don’t focus on it at this time. She sees pictures of some friends going to fancy shows in Florida, but we just admire and move on. She’s enjoying the journey, and so are we.

No barn is perfect, and this one isn’t either. But compared to where we were, I believe we’re in a much better place – for her growth as a rider, for her path for the future, and for our peace of mind (and bank account) as parents. We feel content for now, and I’ve learned to enjoy tit while it lasts as you never know when something is going to change. I hope this update helps someone else who was in our position. If something just doesn’t feel right or make sense logically, never be afraid to pause, research your options, and be and courageous enough willing to make a change.

Thank you all again! Now, if I can only find a way to convince HJA to have More Than 1 Show Judge per Class!

62 Likes

What a great update. I’m happy for you that everything is going so well.

3 Likes

Ya done good, Mom.

7 Likes

Now, if I can only find a way to convince HJA to have More Than 1 Show Judge per Class!

If you ever want to come to the “dark side”, our stock breeds (AQHA/APHA) usually show from anywhere to 2 - 6 judges per class. :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye: And NCAA Div 1 schools do have horsemanship riders.

Congrats on finding a barn that works for y’all! I’m very proud of the effort and homework you and your whole family have done to make riding successful for your daughter.

I did see this posted on social media this past week - it may be worth looking into as a resource once you circle back to considering college: https://educatedrider.com/ I don’t have personal experience with her, but many recommendations from people I trust were made.

2 Likes

OP, thank you so much for the update, please keep letting us know how you are doing.

While not perfect all barns require compromise and sure sounds like this one provides a supportive peer group for both DD and you and the other parents. Also think the IEA is a very good match for you and others in your situation and IHSA a better long term goal. Hopefully DD will learn about from her peers and figure out on her own, leave her room to do just that.

Enjoy the spring and summer show season. :sunglasses:

I’d like to thank the OP for coming with her questions and also coming back with a great update! I missed this last August, but my sister is in a very similar situation as the original post and I have forwarded this thread. There are so many helpful and thoughtful posts here!

My experience is oh heavens ~30 years out of date and I definitely grew up feral with minimal training. I didn’t have regular lessons until I went to a college with an equine program. I’m glad my niece is learning so much, and I sure wish she could experience the freedom that I had WITH the training. Obviously, that’s the best of all possible worlds.

2 Likes