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NEWSFLASH: Horse showing is expensive

Hunter/Jumper
#81

This thread has seriously kept me awake at work tonight… I moved from CO to VA fall of 2012, the abundance of local shows and rated shows within 2 hrs is HUGE to me… compared to CO, but yet in CO you could still go to CHJA - equivilent to VHSA shows not schooling but not USEF rated, decent shows, good ribbons, good prizes, and year end awards. VA has a bigger show base and ten times the options, with tons of different divisions from w/t to 3’ plus, the horses are just as competitive, but usually green, or those of us who cant afford more. The other thing is that I feel VHSA provides lots of opportunities for the “middle class” by hosting championships that are nice, without the huge price. BUT it would be difficult to hold such events and have the variety without such a huge equestrian base that there is here in VA… It wasn’t possible in CO. I show my youngsters at A rated shows because they are the only ones who offer hunter breeding. Once they are undersaddle I swap to local shows, like someone mentioned its useless to go to the big shows with babies if you can’t afford more than two a year. I love the A shows and the satisfaction of doing well at them… BUT Having had to pay for my horses and shows since I was 18, I haven’t shown at an A show aside from hunter breeding since. In the end shows to me are the ability to show off my and my horses abilities, and see how much we have grown (as I love the babies). I currently have a nice filly I bred, that I’m debating whether to breed her and follow my breeding dreams, or to show her in hopes that she could be my fancy hunter amateur mount… I could easily do both, but it is discouraging to think that she could be fancy enuogh for the A shows… but I’d never be able to be truly competitive except maybe one show a year… I also live in the VA area, and like Trixie mentioned… I do rent a room from the farm I board at… for $300 ish a month… I self car field board my horses and get a great deal because I know the farm owners… but I’ve got student debt, make more money than most college grads right out of school, and have minimal debt… I’ve got my own truck and trailer that I bought and have now paid off myself that I use to haul my own etc, but I also have a car that is my commute car (and I drive 50 miles each way to work), and yea I’d like to buy my own place some day…

Everyone has dreams of going to WEF and doing well and being able to experience it… but its almost to the point that going to WEF is like going to the Olympics for some of us… we might have the talent, but not the means to get there…

Also, this whole working student rule is really making it even harder on amateurs/juniors who can’t afford it but want to work for it… you can’t even be a working student anymore without sacrificing your amateur status… really sad.

#82

[QUOTE=rosebudranch;7430414]
This thread has seriously kept me awake at work tonight… I moved from CO to VA fall of 2012, the abundance of local shows and rated shows within 2 hrs is HUGE to me… compared to CO, but yet in CO you could still go to CHJA - equivilent to VHSA shows not schooling but not USEF rated, decent shows, good ribbons, good prizes, and year end awards. VA has a bigger show base and ten times the options, with tons of different divisions from w/t to 3’ plus, the horses are just as competitive, but usually green, or those of us who cant afford more. The other thing is that I feel VHSA provides lots of opportunities for the “middle class” by hosting championships that are nice, without the huge price. BUT it would be difficult to hold such events and have the variety without such a huge equestrian base that there is here in VA… It wasn’t possible in CO. I show my youngsters at A rated shows because they are the only ones who offer hunter breeding. Once they are undersaddle I swap to local shows, like someone mentioned its useless to go to the big shows with babies if you can’t afford more than two a year. I love the A shows and the satisfaction of doing well at them… BUT Having had to pay for my horses and shows since I was 18, I haven’t shown at an A show aside from hunter breeding since. In the end shows to me are the ability to show off my and my horses abilities, and see how much we have grown (as I love the babies). I currently have a nice filly I bred, that I’m debating whether to breed her and follow my breeding dreams, or to show her in hopes that she could be my fancy hunter amateur mount… I could easily do both, but it is discouraging to think that she could be fancy enuogh for the A shows… but I’d never be able to be truly competitive except maybe one show a year… I also live in the VA area, and like Trixie mentioned… I do rent a room from the farm I board at… for $300 ish a month… I self car field board my horses and get a great deal because I know the farm owners… but I’ve got student debt, make more money than most college grads right out of school, and have minimal debt… I’ve got my own truck and trailer that I bought and have now paid off myself that I use to haul my own etc, but I also have a car that is my commute car (and I drive 50 miles each way to work), and yea I’d like to buy my own place some day…

Everyone has dreams of going to WEF and doing well and being able to experience it… but its almost to the point that going to WEF is like going to the Olympics for some of us… we might have the talent, but not the means to get there…

Also, this whole working student rule is really making it even harder on amateurs/juniors who can’t afford it but want to work for it… you can’t even be a working student anymore without sacrificing your amateur status… really sad.[/QUOTE]

i wasn’t able to read the thesis you wrote in a single paragraph because it made my eyes bleed, so I skipped to the end of your post and wondered what is this working student rule you mentioned and how is it hurting the industry?

#83

Rosebudranch, the working student thing does not affect juniors. Nothing affects junior status other than age.

Sorry, needed to post that since there’s a misconception that you can “lose your junior status” that seems to be getting increasingly common…

#84

I think Rosebud was saying that an ammy can’t be a working student without losing her ammy status.

#85

So, the difference between hauling yourself versus paying someone is that while you have to pay for the truck and trailer, diesel/gas, insurance, etc., it’s something that is often partially financed, and the rest ends up being absorbed into one’s household budget. At least, that is the case for me. What it comes down to is each person’s situation and what is doable or not, convenient or not. For me, not having my own rig would not work with my current situation.

Paying for hauling would be massively expensive each time if one does not have any shows close by (like me), and inconvenient. I also don’t board with my trainer, so there isn’t usually anyone else from my barn going to the same events as me and that means I can’t hitch a ride. With my own rig I can leave when I want and don’t have to wait on someone else to show up. If I want to stick a horse or two on my trailer and go school somewhere, I can do it. And, actually, at my new barn they don’t allow outside trainers so I have to trailer out to lessons now, too. My truck is paid for, as is the trailer, but both were financed, which spread out the initial pain. The truck also works as a household utility vehicle (we have an 84 year old house- lots of renovations!), so it isn’t just for the horses.

On the other hand, having someone else haul one’s horses is great in terms of not having to deal with it oneself- no driving and parking the trailer, no mucking it out and putting in new shavings, etc. etc. on top of everything else one has to worry about at a show. It’s a trade off, but I would rather haul myself than not have the agency to go anywhere I want, when I want, on top of paying out the nose for someone to haul my guys. Of course I end up paying more, but it is spread out and manageable, or I wouldn’t have bought the truck and trailer in the first place. The benefits outweigh the costs, for me, and I am 100% someone who has to show on a budget!

#86

this is very true, but when one is factoring real costs…you can’t just say that it is absorbed into the household budget. We all justify it that way, but it’s inaccurate at best. $10k trailer, $30k truck, $$700-ish ins/year + gas and ROI is quite long unless you are going to far away shows/clinics/events every week.

I also recognize that my ROI would be very different because I do have a good situation with trailering. I’m not paying $1.25 per loaded mile or some such ridiculousness.

The freedom is amazing, though. Going where you want, when you want. Sigh. Lovely.

On the other hand, having someone else haul one’s horses is great in terms of not having to deal with it oneself- no driving and parking the trailer, no mucking it out and putting in new shavings, etc. etc. on top of everything else one has to worry about at a show.!

This isn’t really a given for the budget crowd. :wink: I am often the driver (I prefer it and it gets me experience anyway) and almost always the one mucking out the trailer, etc. We don’t ascribe to the “if you paid, you don’t do anything” philosophy in my parts. You are still put to work or do the work because it’s the right thing to do (we also don’t have grooms and all that comes with. We all pitch in and do whatever needs to be done together…when we leave the backyard, that is). :slight_smile:

#87

Well, I’m not talking about hauling out with a friend or your trainer with his/her own rig- in my case I don’t have access to either, so I’d be paying a professional hauler. If I paid a professional to haul my guys and they expected me to muck, etc., I would be p.o’d!

Again, I was pointing out that sometimes having a truck and trailer is absolutely necessary, and sometimes it isn’t, and can just be a big drain on finances. I am a total DIY-er these days, other than paying for stall board. I haul my friends around for the cost of my diesel, we all help each other out- but if I didn’t have my set up I would be stuck on the farm or paying an outside firm to trailer me around. I am the only one at my barn who shows in the jumpers- my friend who does compete at the barn (who also has her own rig) is an eventer, so that doesn’t work out.

If I was in a big program at a show stable it would be different and I could get rides on the stable’s trailer (um, which I would help muck out unless there was someone paid to do so).

ANYWAY, lol- my whole point is that it is really relative to one’s situation. I don’t think I am all that unusual in my circumstances, but there are a lot of people who don’t have their own transportation, don’t need it, and save a lot of money. For me, it is an absolutely necessary expense. Also, if you saw my truck (a 1996 2500 Ram with dents and a mismatched driver’s side door), it would be clear that I’m hardly what one would call high-end.

#88

HORSE RACING is the sport of Kings- look it up.
Trixie, you are da bomb. I am easily the oldest person on The Forum at any given time, and yes, I do remember and lament when showing was more of a sport and less of a business. Horse racing too. I grew up on the Maryland circuit and there used to be ( and still are) a lot of top level rated shows in Maryland. We could afford to go to The Maryland Pony Show on my Dad’s blue collar income. Stalls were affordable, no ship fee or ANY fee except secretary. The quality of the horses back then was amazing( of course no related distances- that’s another pet peeve) and outside courses. If I turned in a good round a kid like me could win. Back then people didn’t live and breath on every word their trainer said either, so that day fee at the show didn’t exist. Yes I know you can choose to go to a show without a trainer today,but who does? We were at the Md Pony Show down at PG Eq Centre and kids were called to the ring by their trainer’s name. Some folks say that actually helps - can you imagine that? The judge heard who their trainer was as they entered the ring. Why would that help( cough cough). I have no problem with folks making a profit but it will be a sad state of affairs when talented riders are passed by because they can’t get seen because they can’t afford to be seen. And it’s happening right now. We have a young horse we bred, terribly talented. I’ve been looking at what it will cost to bring him along in the jumpers and I’m coming to the conclusion that, for him to get to the level he has the talent to be at, I need to sell him because we can’t afford to get him there.

#89

[QUOTE=Running Fox Farm;7431017]
. . . Back then people didn’t live and breath on every word their trainer said either, so that day fee at the show didn’t exist. [/QUOTE]

As a junior my instructor (they were not trainers in those days) would take a bunch of us to shows, and she would be running between rings (usually only one or two rings plus an outside course) trying to work with each of us before our class, but if we were due in a class and she was with someone else, we just went in on our own. It all worked out fine. And she did not charge us ANYTHING, she came to the shows on her “day off” to coach us.

#90

Geez. :rolleyes: lighten up. Yes, traditionally, horse racing is called the sport of kings. But other sports use the phrase as well. As I mentioned, surfers often think their sport is the sport of kings. I wonder why? Oh, could it be because it was practiced by kings? Look it up.

#91

I’m another working ammy, lucky to be able to go to shows. Like everyone else, I worry about the costs. In one sense, I don’t mind paying for good footing and lovely jumps, a safe warmup area, etc., but the fees are getting to the point where for some shows it kind of sucks the fun out of it to think about how much I’m spending. And since I’m the one paying for it, I HAVE to think about it.

I can’t say I really support the mileage rule. I think that some competition could be VERY healthy for our industry. Yes, it could seriously rock the boat, but maybe it is time? Would some shows with more moderate fees crop up? Perhaps the growth of B and C shows will fill the void, but at this point I do think that there really could be some less expensive A shows. I base this speculation on the fact that I volunteer at horse events in other disciplines and they seem to be able to provide similarly complex services at a much lower cost.

When I was growing up, it was easier to do shows on a shoestring, the basic fees were just so much lower, if you were able to do the work yourself it was possible to save a lot of money. Not so much anymore. I also feel like the sport has become more and more something for the financial elite, which makes it less and less of a real competition. If someone tells me that they show at A shows, that tells me a lot more about their financial status than their riding ability. I’m not saying that everyone has a right to show, but as a competitor I like healthy competition and I want my sport to be healthy and real.

#92

[QUOTE=supershorty628;7430570]
Rosebudranch, the working student thing does not affect juniors. Nothing affects junior status other than age.

Sorry, needed to post that since there’s a misconception that you can “lose your junior status” that seems to be getting increasingly common…[/QUOTE]
Correct, I knew that, what I meant was more those juniors who turn ammies - age 18 - 24 who are most likely still in college and usually lose parent support or still can’t afford it… but they cannot continue because they then risk their amateur status.

#93

This is a very interesting thread for me to read, and also slightly depressing.

I’m 2.5 years out of college…my and DH’s combined (gross) income is well above the national average already, yet it’s hard for me to even justify boarding costs, let alone going to shows. Now we’re in the process of saving up for a house, then of course will come children. Reading all of your posts doesn’t give me much hope either. I know that “where there’s a will, there’s a way,” but I wish it was possible without having to make those crazy sacrifices that other posters mentioned.

#94

Yes it is and it’s why I stopped doing it a number of years ago. I kept my old jumpers until the end, and when they passed on… I finally got my dream and bought a wonderful QH mare and started learning Ranch Sorting and riding western. (after over 30 years of H/J)

Now I can go to a sorting event for a couple hundred bucks instead of a couple thousand. I am also thinking it’s so much more fun. I don’t even get nervous

I have a great horse to learn on… it’s very addicting.

#95

[QUOTE=RugBug;7430824]
this is very true, but when one is factoring real costs…you can’t just say that it is absorbed into the household budget. We all justify it that way, but it’s inaccurate at best. $10k trailer, $30k truck, $$700-ish ins/year + gas and ROI is quite long unless you are going to far away shows/clinics/events every week.[/QUOTE]

Why does one need to spend $40K for a nice, safe, useable rig? I bought this last year: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/468145

The truck (4x4, 87K miles, XLT, no rust, w/ tow package) was $6500 and the trailer was $5500. I did spend about a year stalking craigslist to find the best deals. The combined insurance is $700/year (not my main vehicle). I trailer frequently, but not far, so my gas bill is reasonable, and it’s not like the rig is w/o residual value if I need to sell it.

I realize that that’s still a sizable cash outflow but there are other options than a brand new rig for those of us on a budget.

#96

[QUOTE=EasternMkt;7431496]
Why does one need to spend $40K for a nice, safe, useable rig? I bought this last year: http://www.ipernity.com/doc/468145

The truck (4x4, 87K miles, XLT, no rust, w/ tow package) was $6500 and the trailer was $5500. I did spend about a year stalking craigslist to find the best deals. The combined insurance is $700/year (not my main vehicle). I trailer frequently, but not far, so my gas bill is reasonable, and it’s not like the rig is w/o residual value if I need to sell it.

I realize that that’s still a sizable cash outflow but there are other options than a brand new rig for those of us on a budget.[/QUOTE]

No doubt you can find deals and not have to buy new… which makes the ROI much shorter. But I trailer out about 10 times a year at approx $35/per trip. ROI for me makes no sense…even if I could find a decent used truck and trailer (or a horse van, which is really what I want. :wink: ). I’d also have to find parking for both, which would be a nightmare. :slight_smile:

Is your truck an F150? It’s hard to tell. I have hauled with a few of those (with tow package) and I hateit. With two horses and some hills, I was feeling like stopping wasn’t a given but rather a suggestion let alone getting on the freeway safely (we’re home of the neighborhood onramps…you get about 50 yds to be up to speed, if lucky). The F250 was better but I really prefer my trainer’s duallys. You wouldn’t even know the trailer was back there.

#97

F250 w/ an extra spring on the rear, 4.10 gearing, and tow package. I agree that a half ton would be too light for this set up. I seem to recall mine being rated for ~9400 lbs. hauling (less than an equivalent 2x4), but I don’t have the info in front of me. First owner hauled his draft cross field hunters in a steel GN. It’s a gas engine, so I don’t get stellar mileage, just under 10 mpg average fully loaded on the hilly back roads. Better on the highway. But again, my total annual mileage isn’t high; I just have frequent short haul usage w/ occasional trips to NC or PA.

#98

Yes, it is expensive. Which is why I do our local circuit and 2-3 A shows per year. And I will not be able to do that forever. By the time I pay everything, even the local shows cost me around $700. “Local” A/AA shows cost about $1,200. Did a LOT of shows last year (a lot for me but nothing compared to those that do the serious A show circuit.) Will be doing fewer this year. And at some point will have to cut back even more.

My trainer goes to Colorado every year for 2-3 weeks for the A show at Estes Park. I just cannot justify that cost. However, I have told my husband that is what I want for my 50th birthday! Have a few years to save up.

I could technically afford it but just cannot justify spending $5K+ every year to go to a horse show!!! Yes, it is also a vacation but still just can’t bring myself to spend that kind of money every year.

But, to be fair, I also own 5 horses - currently have 1 leased out (my dressage mare) but am leasing 1. So, am paying expenses on 5 horses. 1 horse is at my trainer’s place (NOT a fancy A show barn) and the rest are at my place. If I only had 1 or 2 horses, it would be easier to afford showing.

#99

Here in the Northeast we are lucky to have a lot of shows to choose from, but it’s still very expensive. We have quite a few barns who offer 1 day Local and C rated shows (myself included). Average cost for a one day show
Trailering $125 +Coaching $75+ Grooming (mandatory for all the barns I know) $50+Proride$ 50+ Entry Fees 200= 500 for a one day show.

As far as having your own trailer, it can save you money in the long run, especially if you have two horses. I don’t know if it would be if you have one. Downside is you have to get up at 4AM for a one day to get to warm-ups. No showing up at 2 PM when your division starts. Also, you can move into AA shows on Monday, when most of our employers require our presence at work. That means I get home from work at 6, and make a 4 hour drive to Saugerties or Manchester, get unloaded and unhook the trailer, sleep for a few hours and get up at 4 AM to drive back to work the next day. Brutal, but it saves me about $600, figuring I would have spent $1000 on shipping, minus gas and hotel.

#100

[QUOTE=Nickelodian;7427053]
I know. It’s surprising. People who put on shows are putting them on to make money. People who participate in horse shows do so with the full knowledge that they are using their expendable income on a hobby. The more money you have, the more you can spend, and the more you drive the prices up.

People pay to win, this is not different than any other driver in a market or capitalist economy. If a false ceiling was put on the market to control costs, then demand would exceed supply. As long as people pay the prices to show and support the market, the market will continue to fulfill itself. When the consumer is truly priced out, the market cost will drop allowing for more participants and a new equilibrium price.

Welcome to economics 101.

Horse showing is the sport of kings. It’s akin to sail boat racing or race car driving.

You can either find a way to afford it, or you can’t. But don’t blame the people who are in the market to make a profit for driving up price as much as possible until their supply of entries drops. They are looking to maximize their profits. It’s one of the rare few true free market economies left.

Me? I haul my own horse, bring my own hay/feed/shavings, and up until a year ago did my own work and didn’t participate in the splits to make it work. And before that I showed locally. I have a wonderful husband who supports my decisions on how I spend my money. I work a full time job and I plan a lot and am as frugal as possible (see the crock pot meal I currently have cooking for tonight). It’s what I love, it’s what I want to do. Yes, I wish I had a billion dollars and could just ride the circuit every day all day. But that’s not me. I’m just a working rider who understands the economies of riding.

I do wish that there were areas where people didn’t have to mark up things (shavings, stalls, etc), but I also understand that that’s the economics of the multi billion dollar BUSINESS that I’m a participant in.[/QUOTE]

I don’t think anyone is denying that it’s expensive. I also agree that lashing out at people who are putting the show on probably isn’t productive.

However, the topic is worth discussing. I think the important questions are

  1. Is there a better model, one that would would make showing at the top levels more accessible?

  2. Can we promote local circuits so they offer a good alternative, one that is affordable, safe, competitive, and conducive to good horsemanship?

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