No brakes

[anon40672407]

Rode a little barn pony yesterday who truly has no brakes. Very interesting, and I’m not sure the next steps. He’s for sale, and they’ll never sell him in this condition.

Usually, he’s ridden in draw reins, but for some reason the barn manager said I wouldn’t need them for a trail ride. Well, on a trail ride, you still need brakes! It was pretty interesting.

Anyway, I got the feeling that he has a thick tongue and a shallow mouth, so when the rubber-mouthed snaffle was engaged, he’d toss his head way up so the break action of the snaffle lay horizontal to his head, and engaged his lips, avoiding any pressure on the bars of his mouth (and, likely, the roof of his mouth). That was my guess. Riding him in draw reins would keep the head at a place where the nutcracker action of the snaffle might have some effect.

But mostly I felt he simply didn’t know what the bit was for. He didn’t respond very quickly to leg/seat aids either, but mostly we were caught up in the wild-tug-of-war on his face, so I’m not completely sure about all that. He reacted like, “every so often they just hurt me, and I don’t know why”. I think he needs to be taught that the bit and bridle has a meaning. He didn’t feel willful or aggressive. He just spoke a different language.

Of course, being a pony, most of the items in the trainer’s bucket of bits aren’t going to fit and a lot of money could be spent addressing this issue. I’m thinking of suggesting a mullen mouth, narrower bar short shank pelham, and some serious retraining. What do you all think about that? Or a hackamore?

Other suggestions?

[Simkie]

For a horse with a whole box full of tricks on how to evade a bit, sometimes taking them bitless is a great way to restart the conversation. From there, once lines of communication are open, you can often work them back into a bit, because they better understand what you’re trying to ask.

[Arelle]

Sounds like there are a bunch of missing holes in his education. I think you’d be fine taking it back without the bit for a little while.

I’m not usually one to recommend big trainers because I think mostly they’re about marketing over horsemanship, but in this case, Warwick Schiller does have a good four part video on YouTube about stopping - starting at the walk and progressing to the canter. Might help?

Bending to a Stop Vs. One-Reined Stop (Stopping From a Canter Part 1)

[anon40672407]

Good series. Now I have to decide if I’m going to volunteer to be the one who retrains this pony or leave him to someone else. He’s not mine. He’s not my problem. I’m riding for fun right now, not to solve someone else’s issue. But, hey, maybe it would give me a morning/daily peg in the ground as something that has to be done in slow building blocks.

[luvmyhackney]

He would probably pick it up quick if you taught him a voice command from the ground and transfer it to saddle with a little bit of candy. Then add seat/bridle cues if you wanted. Voice is usually quick for them to learn.

That’s how I taught mine, candy makes fat ponies learn faster. Now he stops from voice, seat, and if I pick up one rein.

[Bogie]

I teach all my horses a verbal slow down cue and it helps even out in the hunt field when they get strong. I agree that going bitless can help by changing the conversation. I had a horse who found most bits uncomfortable because he had a low palate and a thick tongue. I rode him in an LG bridle, which is bitless but has a small amount of leverage depending on where you attach the reins.

In terms of bits, for horses like that I start with a PeeWee snaffle, which is a thin mullen mouth snaffle. It has side rings that apply some pressure to the outside of the jaw. Works a charm on my big mare and it’s not a harsh bit. If I need more brakes (like out hunting) I move up to a Waterford. The waterford drapes across the tongue nicely and is hard for a horse to lean on. From there I go to a Waterford Pelham, but only if the horse accepts the mouthpiece.

[candyappy]

Every horse/ pony has brakes somewhere. sounds like the one you rode was never taught properly or has been ridden in a way that the training is now lost.

He needs to be restarted on what whoa means.

[Janet]

@anon40672407

Anyway, I got the feeling that he has a thick tongue and a shallow mouth, so when the rubber-mouthed snaffle was engaged, he’d toss his head way up so the break action of the snaffle lay horizontal to his head, and engaged his lips, avoiding any pressure on the bars of his mouth (and, likely, the roof of his mouth). That was my guess. Riding him in draw reins would keep the head at a place where the nutcracker action of the snaffle might have some effect.

Other people have good suggestions about bit options.

In terms of his throwing his head in the air to avoid the bit, have you tried a standing martingale? I am not usually a big fan of standing martingales, but this sounds like a case where it would be useful.

[NancyM]

Yes, a mullen mouth bit of a size that fits and a diameter that he finds comfortable is a good place to start. But you always do need a few slightly different bits, different materials, different shapes, before you hit on the one that the green horse accepts and understands the pressure. Then long line (ground drive) him. This is where he learns “steering” and “whoa” from bit pressure. Before you move to bit pressure, he already should know “whoa” from voice command and body language, moving on to bit pressure is simply the next step, so your ground work before riding needs to be adequate. Before any bit pressure is introduced, his dentistry needs to be up to date. There is nothing worse for a green horse to be bitted without dentistry done first.
Some green horses really freak out when the pressure from a bit changes from being on the bars of the mouth, to being on the corners of the mouth… scares the chit outta them. And they do it to themselves if they raise their head when they don’t understand, and change the action of the bit, then panic. If this is the case, you need to use a martingale, I prefer a running martingale (correctly fitted of course), which puts the pressure of the bit onto the bars, no matter what he does with his head. This means that he doesn’t scare himself when he moves his head around when he is learning about bit pressure. He may or may not get over this in time, and with experience and training. It can be useful with a horse who is more advanced, to be able to use pressure on the corners of the mouth rather than the bars, or as well as the bars, depending on the situation you find yourself in. But some horses don’t accept it well, don’t understand it or appreciate it. That is the individuality of horses.
When you can ground drive him successfully, walk and trot (the occasional one can canter too) on the long lines, do some circles, serpentines, whoa, it feels just like riding them except you are trotting along behind them. Then take them out of the arena, around the barn area, and past different things, perhaps things that he hasn’t seen before or may find unsettling. You can ground drive him over poles on the ground too. When he can do all this stuff, it is time to try riding him again, hopefully with the education in his mouth done successfully, and have a safe and responsive ride.

If he’s not your pony and not your problem, and you don’t want to deal with this, pass the reins to someone who can do the work. Don’t ride a pony with no brakes and no education… it’s not safe. And putting such a pony in draw reins isn’t the answer, obviously.

[Ruth0552]

Well the trainer clearly doesn’t have much in her bag of tricks to fix this because a rubber mouth snaffle and draw reins definitely aren’t a solution. Maybe a short term quick fix, but not a solution.

You could also try a running martingale, but making sure the pony knows what Whoa means, and how to steer, without a bit, would be a good starting place. If he knows those things then you can try some other bits and devices. There might be a myler bit that accomodates a thick tongue better.

[anon40672407]

Lots of good comments here.

It’s a new barn for me. I don’t need to waltz in and decide who knows or doesn’t know how to fix things, and he’s not my horse to fix. I’ve made my small suggestion and will leave it there.

[Xanthoria]

Get his teeth checked. Seen more head throwing, angsty business than I should put down to naughtiness.

Sales horses sometimes don’t get their teeth checked properly as it cuts into the profit… even at supposedly fancy barns. In the last 5 months horse shopping I’ve seen 2-3 with major dental issues. One of the sellers even got the teeth done and thanked me afterwards for the suggestion as the horse changed completely. But I can totally understand the reluctance to make the suggestion for not-your-horse.