When thinking about this take into account that how you do things at your current barn might not be the best way to do things since in your other thread you admit that your current trainer does not have a very good reputation.
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I never wanted to implement a no jumping outside of a lesson rule but kids are reckless by nature and many parents are uneducated so we moved to only adults jumping outside of a lesson.
Then a really handy jumper (warmbloods) rider/boarder was schooling another boarder’s OTTB for a couple of weeks. She rode the TB so backward it was ridiculous. Awkward conversations ensued.
THEN a pro (because anybody can be one) posted a video of her horse crashing the first of a one-stride and rolling into the second fence (at my farm) as a PSA for helmet use. She called it a freak accident.
A couple of adults have permission to jump outside of a lesson. We also have various pole exercises set up all the time
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I’m really surprised by this thread. Of the two eventing barns I frequent, one (where the lesson horses work fairly hard) has a “no jumping leased barn-owned horses outside of lessons unless very specifically approved” rule, and the other has a “if you’re jumping leased barn-owned horses outside of lessons, take it down a notch” rule. Everybody else (at both barns) gets to use their judgement.
My take: past a certain point, riders should be able to make progress for both themselves and their horse without an instructor, and I think learning how to be independent is an important part of horsemanship in general and is a cultural part of eventing I value. I’d obey the rules at whatever barn I’m in, but I’d sure be unlikely to want to move in to some of the more restrictive ones described here. I don’t have an issue with rules that attempt to filter who’s past that “certain point”, but blanket prohibitions are highly unappealing.
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I too was going to talk about the stifling of independence that is so prevalent today.
I would argue that people only internalize learning if they actually experience what is being presented to them. No matter how much talking about how to do something and what consequences that something may have, in the end it’s just theory until proved by experience. Formal instruction without consequences is not as “real” as learning that you can fall off if you aren’t centered over a jump; the instincts that you need to ride well, it seems to me, are developed more by making mistakes and experiencing their consequences than by staying wrapped in cotton wool and being safe. You only learn how horses will react in different situations by having the freedom to experience those situations. Being corrected before the consequence occurs means that one doesn’t internalize the result of a mistake.
Barn owners/trainers benefit financially from dependence. It’s a tough nut to crack between giving students the opportunity to learn about the dangers of riding horses and protecting your own pocketbook.
I remember reading something by William Micklem about how the goal of training and coaching should always be to produce riders who can become independent of the coaches and trainers.
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It’s funny. I agree with this for myself and for the other responsible adults I know.
But there isn’t a junior on the property that I would feel comfortable knowing they were jumping without a coach watching. None of the parents of juniors (except the one parent that’s also a coach) have any knowledge whatsover. The point above about being able to set your own course and understand strides is really important. Setting one jump in the middle of the ring or combinations with wonky lengths is going to set you up for problems.
That said, our barn actually has no rule against jumping alone. But it only has a few jumping time slots in the indoor, and indoor or outdoor, you need to put the fences away after which really limits enthusiasm for jumping.
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If you have the rule and someone goes against it and gets hurt you, as a barn owner, have a leg to stand on with the insurance company. If there are no rules then the insurance company may try to place the blame on you. That is how I understand it at least.
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When I was still eventing and boarded at a primarily eventing/dressage barn, the outdoor was HUGE and had several permanent jumps. Their rule was that you could jump the solid jumps and ditch, but not the pole jumps unless supervised. There were two low solid log jumps (maybe 2’ and 2’6"), a 3 foot coop, and a big squarish table/coop that was at least 3’6’ with a solid rail on top. Few wanted to tackle that jump unsupervised anyway. (I was one of the few who would, but I had, at the time, an Intermediate level schoolmaster who hauled my a$$ over anything I pointed him at. Miss him.)
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Another consideration that occurs to me is in barns that are particularly busy, or that only have one arena (or not all arenas are usable in all weathers), the management may be fed up with bickering between people who want to be working on dressage/flat work without threading between jumps, and general traffic management headaches when you have more than one person using the same set of jumps without somebody there acting as a traffic cop.
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Some of these posts make me wonder if my lessons are just weird.
My trainer does not spend the whole lesson telling me every detail of my ride (except when we are working on something new or I am struggling).
They are more than capable of standing there while I figure out what I am doing and only comment to prevent a disaster or when I am done to discuss the good and bad of what I have done.
It is not all or nothing. Riding in a lesson does not mean the rider is never thinking for themselves or working thru issues in their own head.
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Yes, this exactly. There are plenty of times my trainer just keeps quiet while I do my course and then he tells me what to improve on and work on for the next time I go out and do it. That being said, I have ridden with trainers who are constantly talking to you the entire time. For me, it’s impossible to process and implement what they are saying, so I just tune everything out. The same with XC schooling - with my current trainer, we warm up a bit over individual fences and then he strings together a course and we discuss it after. Or if he’s saying stuff to me when I’m out there I can’t hear him anyway, haha. So yeah, even though I now only jump in a lesson, I still get to practice stuff “independently”, if that makes sense.
I’m helping a woman sell a horse at the barn I grew up riding at and as a result I’ll be jumping the horse on occasion. It’s funny because I have no hesitation to jump that horse outside of a lesson (it’s allowed there) mostly because the jumps will be small (under 2’6) and no complicated courses. But, as I mentioned earlier, I wouldn’t even really want to jump my personal horse outside of a lesson at my current barn anyway. At the height and technicality we are doing, I wouldn’t feel comfortable doing it on my own. And to me, I don’t want to jump her just to jump, if that makes sense. But it’s still so interesting to read everyone’s responses!
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true, that is why im moving, most barns ive seen do not have this rule. just wondering if this is a common thing or if it isnt, but it apparantly is. it is very interesting to see what other people barns are like
Lol. “Busted” 
Of course we need to progress to more independence. But now as a Farm owner…I totally get the rule. I only allow a couple of boarders who are all responsible and educated adults. We help each other when jumping on our own and are all at levels were we should be training our horses (including jumping) whether or not we have a lesson. But from a liability perspective…I totally get the rule and in my experience, it almost always is loosely applied. But it’s the farm owners Farm…so regardless of your horse ownership, they have a right to protect their property and limit their liability exposure.
Ive absolutely seen damage to the ring and wacky jump setting. Poles broken and no offer to pay.
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I wouldn’t board at a place with that rule, but I do think it’s a good idea to have a second person around when jumping. However, I have no problem with that rule for kids under 18, or leased or lesson horses.
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If you are willing to pay the premiums, you can get insurance on almost anything. The reality is, the more risky the insured, the higher the premiums. When you hear someone say we have this rule for “insurance reasons” you should read that to mean, they have adopted a safety rule to help keep insurance costs in check.
The process of obtaining insurance for a commercial facility in some highly regulated areas is not a walk in the park. There are interviews, inspections and questionnaires. As you go through the process, you begin to realize every time you check a box that says “yes we allow this on our property” your premiums just went up and you begin to rethink your strategy.
And forbid someone gets hurt riding and a lawsuit ensues. If the barn manages to stay in business, they adopt restrictive rules. And other nearby barns that saw the train-wreck adopt restrictive rules.
It is just the way the world works.
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I have mostly seen these rules at H/J barns. What I absolutely cannot tolerate is one barn said Cavelettis were jumps and I was not allowed to use them outside of lessons. I had no idea that was breaking the no jumping rule. Another barn I was at posted a new rule sheet one day that added no jumping without an instructor. I saw it after I jumped my horse. I felt so bad but was informed it was only for one boarder.
This particular boarder was afraid to canter her horse and was told by the BO if you want to jump come get me and we will work on it. (She would school us for free). The woman was pitching a fit because she wasn’t allowed to jump in her lessons with another trainer. She plain wasn’t ready. So BO leaves for a week and this boarder promptly sets up a oxer and somehow gets her horse stuck in the middle of it. The barn sitter had to run out and go rescue her.
I totaly understand these rules, but I prefer to board at barns that let me do my own thing. I also am not an idiot and stay well within my comfort zone.
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I have never boarded at a place with this kind of rule. I can understand the rule in certain circumstances, such as lesson horses or part leased horse since the rider may not know how often the horse is jumped.
In high school, the trainer was there all day so she was watching you ride whether you were in a lesson or not. Most of the barn rats had their own horses by the time they were in high school and I rode what was available and one of my responsibilites on these horses was to start them over jumps.
One place I rode at with a lot of “wild” kids did not have this rule but also the standards were short for the most part. I think one set went to 3’3" and the rest went to about 2"6" or so. It was a bit rough for me when I was going training but I made it work and the kids could never jump to high (If I put the rails all the way up, I took them down when I was done).
Now, I rarely take jump lessons and mostly work on things on my own. I board at my trainers and ride her young sale horses as well. The sale horses are off the track (‘sale’ is a loose term, most are rehomes with a small fee). So, one of my responsibilities it to get them over poles and cross rails. It behooves my trainer to allow me to jump outside of lessons. With my horse (and sometimes the other ones) I will bring up an issue I am having, we will work on it, then I will do homework.
We have just myself and another boarder right now and she is very exciting about jumping. At her previous place, if the jumps came out, they had to go back when you were done riding, which makes it very annoying to spend all the time on striding to just take it down. She also has someone helping. Sometimes we set jumps together, sometimes we talk about what we want and I start and she finishes. I love it because I am horrible with striding so she can finish those kinds of things - I will put the jump out where I think a one stride would go but the poles don’t go up until she checks it.
I love it because, as mentioned, I’m horrible with striding so instead of putting up unrelated jumps, we can practice actual things! Right now, there is a two stride to a one stride out. That poster that mentiong the test idea was good because it prevented someone from just putting up a jump or two and not really knowing what they were doing…um…just…um, look away…
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My old trainer would rattle off what he wanted where and I’d roughly place the standard and toss a pile of poles next to them. He’d come out and walk the strides to adjust. Usually I was a bit off (sometimes by a foot or 2 others not even in the same county!)
I don’t disagree with the sentiment, but point out that today in the US (at least), the reality is that knowingly letting people make mistakes which involve bodily injury is likely to result in a lawsuit. 
And it’s often not the injured party that brings the suit, it’s the insurance company trying to keep from paying out.
California is one of the only states that does not have an Equine Activity Liability Act which helps to shield facilities from this sort of fallout, which might be why I’ve encountered many more barns here which don’t allow unsurpervised jumping. Perhaps it’s time to think about fixing that.
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@SnicklefritzG I agree that “insurance reasons” are often used as an excuse to enact/enforce certain rules, BUT, even if it is not spelt out in the insurance contract, a barn does have a responsibility to operate in as safely a manner as possible.
Our barn rule for jumping outside of lessons IS based on advice of our insurance agent, although not a requirement:
- Juniors may not jump outside of lessons.
- Only owners may jump their own horse outside of lessons (or lease riders IF the lease rider is the one that signed the board agreement)
- A jump is considered anything 12" or higher.
- No jumping if there is nobody else around.
I have also added to this: if you break an obstacle jumping outside of lessons, then you must replace the obstacle.
In general, my clients are responsible, and respectful, so it has not been an issue. I can definitely understand why some barns just decide to not allow it period though, particularly larger barns.
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This is exactly correct. If a boarding facility or lesson barns permits certain unsupervised activities and someone is hurt, under the law, the barn may have committed an act of negligence.
If your life savings and your livelihood is wrapped up in your horse business, there isn’t a lot of incentive to allow “risky” behavior. It isn’t necessarily about trainers trying to retain unreasonable control over their clients as much as it is about trying to avoid an injury and perhaps a lawsuit.
Now if you live in a state where it is very difficult to bring, and win an equine-activity related lawsuit, that is a different ball of wax.
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