Don’t barn owners make riders and their parents assume the risk of dangers associated with horses by signing some sort of waiver before they are ever allowed around a horse–on the ground or riding?
Not uncommon at all. Agree in this scenario there should be lessons where the student jumps without any inputs during the ride, gets feedback later so they practice how competition will be. I’ve also seen barns that give written permission to qualified riders to jump outside lessons, so maybe ask if there are any exceptions to the rule?
Waivers don’t stop people from sueing…nor are perfect protection. Hence why insurance companies like these sorts of rules.
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I know in Florida the waiver does not prevent the “estate of the child from suing.” A Dad and his son went and rode 4 wheelers. Waivers were signed. Son ended up dying in an accident. An Aunt successfully sued the operation on behalf of the son’s estate.
In Connecticut there was a case that went to the CT Supreme Court where a girl got injured during a riding lesson on a lesson horse. They successfully sued the barn saying they were negligent by over-horsing the kid. The whole thing read to me like the kid and parents over estimated the kid’s abilities and the farm made the mistake of taking them at face value.
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Man, way back before the new boarder was there, I was the only one setting up jumps. Other people jumped…just no one would help me (we have had other boarders on and off). So, I tried to set up a 2 stride. Took sale horse through it and first time it was a long spot on the second jump - jumps were only about 2 ft. Second and subsequent times she took it in 3 strides and I thought to myself that I just set up a 3 stride accidentally. Took my mare (younger, less experienced) and she took the long spot every time. After 3 attempts, I stopped jumping her that line because I didn’t want to overface her.
Another rider came in and commented that it looked like 2.5 strides…ok, that was the problem. I stopped trying to set up lines after that…until recently that is and I successfully added a one stride to the two stride line. So proud of myself!
Often, afte the jumps have been put away to water and drag the ring, I will put one up…practice lead changes over it. A few days later another goes up, etc. That is unless fellow boarder has a plan and then I attempt to help with that.
I can see both sides of this, especially for young/irresponsible/people who don’t own the horses they are riding, etc. but for experienced adults who own their horses, I think it’s ridiculous. In all my years of riding (30+) I have boarded at one barn that had this rule. I was 38 at the time, had just finished vet school and was doing an internship, and riding my then 19 year old TB that I had restarted off the track at 6. I taught him everything he knew, but I wasn’t allowed to jump him outside of lessons?! I did take one lesson, and it ended up being ground poles/crossrails (at the time the horse was jumping 3’-3’6"). There were other issues, and needless to say, we didn’t stay long.
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A couple barns I was at allowed adults with a $2,000,000 liability insurance policy to jump on their own on their own horse only. Helmets must be worn. The barn owned the jumps, not the individual trainers. It is kind of like amateurs signing as their own trainer at shows and warming themselves up. The barn I am at now, the trainers own the jumps, so their jumps, their rules.
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I’ve never been in a barn (and I’ve lived on both coasts) that didn’t have this rule, and we don’t allow it either. Very common.
I’ve been at a number of barns where the rule was case by case. I’m not aware of this causing hard feelings - although it certainly could.
How many lessons? I don’t think this is a bad rule, especially if having lessons (even one every quarter) was how the BO decided who was an advanced rider who was allowed to jump on their own, and who wasn’t.
This is exactly right. Waivers don’t prevent people from suing. And they don’t protect a barn from a lawsuit if the barn is negligent. Negligence is not cut and dry. There is a duty to protect. If a client engages in an activity and they are injured, a lawsuit could argue that the barn could have reasonably foreseen the injury yet they they failed to protect and are guilty of negligence. A lawsuit would look to industry standards and if it is found many barns do more to protect the client, such as “no jumping without supervision,” that argument will be used in the lawsuit along with other arguments. Even if the barn prevails in a lawsuit, the legal fees can be financially crippling.
The courts have found that a minor cannot waive their rights to sue. In most states, parents cannot waive the rights of a minor, a guardian cannot, etc.
Waivers are documents in which the signer acknowledges certain activities can be risky and signed waivers are better than nothing, but they don’t offer full protection and in the case of a minor, they offer even less.
For anyone in school, an intro level law class or two that covers contract and tort law has real-life practical applications. It will arm you with knowledge that is useful in your life whether you turn pro and have your own business or not.
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If you keep your own horse on your own property with your own jumps in your own ring, you can do what you want. You, or your parents, are solely liable for you.
A boarding barn owning these things shares any liability for your injuries since it is their property and their standard of ordinary care is greater… Equine liability statutes specifically exempt negligence on the barns part, negligence not being a black and white action or omission, that’s what gets barns hauled to court. At their often very considerable expense. So you get more restrictive rules riding at a commercial barn, especially a bigger barn with more clients that gets exposed to liability for the stoopid actions of others more often.
Those who say they have never heard of a no jumping outside of lessons policy at any barn have not really seen enough barns in enough locations to make any judgements about how common it is or is not. Having boarded for over 50 years on both coasts, the South and the middle in 3 disciplines, such rules as no jumping or no riding alone are pretty normal. There are many variations but you cannot just do whatever you want whenever you want on somebody else’s property. That goes triple if you are on somebody else’s horse.
We have discussed this and barns that chose to have operating hours many times over the years. Never got why. It’s their barn on their property and their liability. They don’t have to change the way they find they can operate their business most efficiently and don’t need to really to explain why. And they aren’t going to change, if anything they will get more restrictive if somebody gets hurt and drags them to court with legal fees alone costing a 3 month hay bill and a judgement against them the cost of releveling and footing both rings or new lights in the indoor.
Dont forget there are other clients at these barns and what you do might interfere with their rides and at more serious show barns, those rides are pretty serious whether there’s a trainer there or not. Somebody has to be there to direct traffic at the very least if anybody is jumping. IME rules that differ from one boarder to the next are drama city.
Those relegated to no jumping almost always complain they are unfairly treated, or their parents do, and jump it anyway. Removing all doubt they should not be jumping alone and ruining everybody else’s attempts to ride.
There are reasons for rules and their right to post and enforce them. Pick a barn accordingly…but don’t be surprised if they change them as a result of an accident that the court finds should have been avoidable on their property.
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I think there is a difference between barns with an active lesson program, and boarding barns with no, or a small, lesson program.
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Do these barns with the jumping lesson rule allow riders to trail ride/hack out alone jumping small logs etc? Or gallop the horses on their own? We have never been at a barn that has had this requirement but we have mostly boarded at barns without a lesson program and trailer in for lessons. I assume most of the barns with this rule are big competition barns with a lesson program.
Yes this is common and purely for safety.
The rule says no jumping on property. Trail riding and jumping a log on the property is not allowed under that kind of rule. I wouldn’t say that this rule is what you only find at “big competition” barns… but it is very common for lesson barns. DIY places and boarding barns comprised of mainly private boarders and no regular lesson programs are the only places I’ve seen without a no-jump rule. With my first horse as a teen we had a no jump rule at my barn but you bet your bottom dollar I was out in the back field with friends jumping hay bales. Not allowed, but if I’d gotten hurt the barn owner had my signature on the rules (along with my parents) saying I knew it wasn’t allowed to protect them from being at any way liable. I haven’t had a no galloping rule in place, but a lot of the places I’ve boarded at in the past haven’t had wide open spaces you could do that with - the ones I have been at with sort of galloping room have not had that rule.
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Reviving this old thread. I just started boarding at a new barn and they have a full complement of jumps available to use. However, I saw a notice on the board that jumping was not allowed without a trainer. This was not disclosed to me when I signed the contract, nor was it pointed out by the barn owner; I just happened to see it in passing. If I had known about this rule, I probably wouldn’t have boarded here. This barn also has a very active lesson program - mostly kids - and a pretty fair number of schoolies which they also lease. The majority of the riders are western. I don’t feel it’s right to restrict owners with their own horses from jumping outside of lessons. Maybe it’s their insurance doesn’t allow it. I guess a talk with the barn owner is in order to fully define this rule.
If you are changing your mind about boarding at this barn (especially if you have somewhere else you can go), you might want to speak to the BO right away and let them know. All you and the BO have to do to get out of the contract is agree between you to tear it up. Regardless of the clauses and so forth, if they knew you would be jumping and didn’t make you aware of the rule, they should understand that it doesn’t work for you.
Maybe they are so accustomed to jumping only with a trainer, they didn’t think about the possibility someone doesn’t, just as you didn’t think that this might be a rule. Just an unintentional but important oversight on both sides.
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I don’t jump much outside of lessons and shows anyway so it wouldn’t bother me. I guess it would depend on whether you are able timewise/financially to take lessons regularly. I would assume you can still do trot/canter poles on your own.
For me the rule is a dealbreaker. But I do understand why many stables feel it is necessary. And why some riders don’t have a problem with it.
I like the idea of testing to earn permission to jump on one’s own. That’s fair and reasonable. 
I have to say that reading this thread made me think of the other long thread discussing why so many riders aren’t independent in the warm-up ring. Must have a trainer to tell them what to do. If that’s how it is at home, I wouldn’t expect them to suddenly become confident to school themselves independently when away from home, in a ring full of busy strangers.
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This rule is ok if you have a certain type of horse.
My late mare was a psycho over fences, but totally great on the flat. What worked for us was to do a fence or three every ride, even if I was in my dressage saddle, to make it ho-hum and part of every ride. Nothing big, just an x-rail, then back to flatwork for 10 mins, then a small vertical out of no where, then more flatwork, etc. If we only jumped in a weekly lesson, she would have been a total beast.
If you have a more, ahem, calm type horse it’s probably fine.
I also like to pop green beans over a few tiny ones every ride so they learn it’s just a part of the job, not a special thing.
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