no jumping without a lesson rule?

[trubandloki]

@Spudsmyguy

Reviving this old thread. I just started boarding at a new barn and they have a full complement of jumps available to use. However, I saw a notice on the board that jumping was not allowed without a trainer. This was not disclosed to me when I signed the contract, nor was it pointed out by the barn owner; I just happened to see it in passing. If I had known about this rule, I probably wouldn’t have boarded here. This barn also has a very active lesson program - mostly kids - and a pretty fair number of schoolies which they also lease. The majority of the riders are western. I don’t feel it’s right to restrict owners with their own horses from jumping outside of lessons. Maybe it’s their insurance doesn’t allow it. I guess a talk with the barn owner is in order to fully define this rule.

Spuds, I agree with @OverandOnward.
Have a discussion with the barn owner. Maybe that rules applies to the people leasing lesson horses and not owners? Can not hurt to ask for clarification. I would go into the conversation with a plan though. If the rule applies to everyone then know what you want to do moving forward.

If you want to move barns then tell the barn owner that you did not realize this was a rule and it was not disclosed so you would like to move Dobbin and get out of your contract.

[JenJ]

@Spudsmyguy

This was not disclosed to me when I signed the contract, nor was it pointed out by the barn owner; I just happened to see it in passing. If I had known about this rule, I probably wouldn’t have boarded here.

if you specifically asked that question and they mislead you, I would be pretty angry.

I do not often jump alone, but certainly want the right to do so maybe twice a month. that was one of my QQ when i needed a new barn 6 months ago, along with barn hours, any closed days, whether outside coaches are allowed, etc.

No barn is perfect, but there are some things that would be a deal breaker for me.

[gallop_jump]

I would just ask the barn owner. I boarded at a place like that, where it was 95% lesson kids and leases, and like 3 adult boarders who owned. Same deal, sign at both arenas with rules, one of them being “no jumping outside of lessons” I didn’t take lessons with the barn owner or her daughter who teaches (they specialize in kids H/J and beginner adults), she knew I could jump (and was trailering out regularly for lessons and clinics), and so she was fine with me jumping not in a lesson. All she asked what that I did it outside of busy lesson times so kids didn’t see me and think they could do it, too and that I either have a ground person or text her if she wasn’t down at the barn so she could keep an eye out for my lifeless body and a loose horse, should something bad happen. Fair enough, to me.

[TheDBYC]

I suspect that’s a big part of the reason at a lot of barns. I used to do morning chores at a place where the BO would ask me hang out for an extra hour or so on the days the boarder whose horse was a bit iffy hacked out. (They’d once parted company in spectacular fashion somewhere on the hunt trails. ) It was a small barn & typically that boarder was alone if BO wasn’t home.

With kids (and frankly some adults I’ve met), not only do you worry about falls, you have to worry about them way overdoing it making their horses lame.

Eta: I darn near had a heart attack once with the roles reversed. I was riding in the indoor when the TRAINER’S horse suddenly appeared in the doorway, riderless Turned out he’d pulled away from her as she was walking him down to the outdoor on foot. The lane leading down to the outdoor was almost 3/4 miles long & the sightline partially obstructed so it felt like the looooongest 30 seconds of my life until I spotted her rounding the bend!

[horseshorseshorseshorses]

@gallop_jump

text her if she wasn’t down at the barn so she could keep an eye out for my lifeless body and a loose horse, should something bad happen.

Very practical and pragmatic

[merrygoround]

I think t is reasonable to ask the BO if, perhaps an experienced adult rider could jump on their own.

I can well understand the BO’s reluctance to have just anyone, and everyone free to jump w/o supervision, Insurance companies do get cranky about such things.

[Spudsmyguy]

I spoke to the barn owner and she said that was only for children under 16 so we’re good. However, I’m not thrilled with the turnout (small mud pen) so am looking again. The turnouts I saw when visiting were nice, mud free, and ample room for a romp, not so for my guy.

[endlessclimb]

How did you mix up the turnout situation? Is it “mud season” where you are, and it wasn’t when you visited?

[Spudsmyguy]

They have a lot of turnouts and the ones I saw were the ones that had been revetted to make them mud free. It is definitely mud season but there are mud free alternatives that can be implemented. Granted it would cost and I would be happy to pay more in board if they were in a mind to do so.

[mika0116]

This is public information if you apply for an insurance policy for an equine facility. So, yes, it often is part of the insurance policy. The rates are much lower with clauses like this and the legal and financial protection for the business owner is more robust.

All of your mentioned above is also not mutually exclusive. Insurance policy stipulations can coexist with the “want more money” & “lack of trust”.

Most barns that make money “want more income from jumping lessons” and generally speaking it is good for business to “not trust clients enough”. As the clients who are actually competent jumping on their own successfully, reasonably, and without injury to horse or rider likely are not ‘high calorie’ clients in the trainer’s book of biz (as the competent alone jumping ammy may not pay for lessons often, may not involve trainer in future horse purchases - so no commission $$, and may or may not pay for show training & services). The client that is more reliant on the trainer for support, guidance, supervision, and instruction is more profitable.

As a CPA/ former economics analyst, I say it is in most trainers’ best interest legally and financially to have this rule or some variation thereof (say 18+ and nothing over 2ft).

A well run facility and biz will have this. I find places without this rule to be a big red flag of poor business and logic choices – but they often are much cheaper!

[mika0116]

This is an interesting perspective! I definitely get what you are saying. I suppose I didn’t initially have this perspective as at least 1x a month my trainer would have me jump around the set course in the jump arena and “do things out of stride”. I was also asked often (maybe 1x a week) coordinate my own jump warm up (2 fences on figure 8s, serpentines and angle fences, circle of death, adjustment within lines (add stride), trot fences, and call out to my trainer what I was doing and why. as well as setting grid work prior to mounting.

That’s how I got more comfortable warming up for shows and clinics! We were also allowed poles / raised cavaletti alone

[SonnysMom]

@mika0116

A well run facility and biz will have this. I find places without this rule to be a big red flag of poor business and logic choices – but they often are much cheaper!

Or they are a boarding barn not a training barn. I don’t see this as a red flag at all if they are a boarding barn and don’t have an in-house trainer.

I do find this interesting this is in the eventing forum as historically eventers used to be much more self reliant.
None of my trainers have ever told me to not jump outside my lessons. But I am not jumping very often or very high. With Finnegan we did well to jump a few jumps every time I rode. Just a few jumps.
I don’t think I would want to board somewhere I could not jump at least little jumps outside a lesson. I totally get not jumping if nobody is around or if nobody was in the ring.
I understand if you are in a training program that a trainer wants to restrict minors from jumping outside a lesson especially if the parents are not equestrians.

Sometimes I feel that being able to randomly hop over a few jumps and go back to some flat work can be very beneficial to some horses. Jumping is just part of the routine. It isn’t a course. It isn’t something to get excited about it. You just do it and go back to flat work. And a jump may pop up in the middle of flat work so you better be paying attention. Once again I am just talking 2’ to 2’3 or so and a few random ones during a flat session so maybe 3-5 jumps total.

[mika0116]

Yeah I hear you - I feel like eventers have a bit more well rounded education (perhaps thats the dressage foundation in me talking) about setting distances, lameness, and appropriate conditioning. And I say that as a jumper rider… I watch a lot of AAs and juniors hack lame / NQR horses as well as inappropriately warm up / cool down when left to their own devices 0 and thats on the flat, the horror if they were allowed to jump.

[OverandOnward]

@mika0116

Most barns that make money “want more income from jumping lessons” and generally speaking it is good for business to “not trust clients enough”. As the clients who are actually competent jumping on their own successfully, reasonably, and without injury to horse or rider likely are not ‘high calorie’ clients in the trainer’s book of biz (as the competent alone jumping ammy may not pay for lessons often, may not involve trainer in future horse purchases - so no commission $$, and may or may not pay for show training & services). The client that is more reliant on the trainer for support, guidance, supervision, and instruction is more profitable.

Exactly.

And again, no surprise that so many riders are not self-sufficient in the warm-up ring at shows.

Riders do have to be educated about jumping on their own, and that was something that I got back when we were riding brontosaurus. How to warm up, and how many jumps were ok. We were given a quota of jumping efforts a horse was allowed for the day and week (counting warm-up jumps and jumps that didn’t go well), and were taught to carefully budget that quota. If you messed up a jump, and needed a do-over, then you lost a jump on another part your ride to keep the total jumping efforts the same.

[mika0116]

So very true! I think that education you are referring to has really not been maintained over the years. More stereotypes, but out West here I find it to be sadly rare to have the understanding you discussed. On the East Coast (where I am from) more people were at ‘boarding barns’ or kept horses at home and trailered / hacked over to a facility to lesson when they could/ wanted. Animal conditioning and husbandry knowledge is more prevalent.

In a major West Coast city, I find a lot of riders showing A - rated shows at a mid-level who cannot wrap their horse properly for a trailer ride, explain what their horse eats and why (Bermuda vs Alfalfa, grains vs pellets, ratios of fats to sugars), or know why one would choose a protective boot vs a polo wrap (cringe).

YMMV, but that is the reasoning behind many stables having the rule. Just my opinion, as I even would like to see show registrations have ‘exams’ a la Pony Club to enter into certain rated shows.

[Equkelly]

I’ve been at barns with this rule but I’ve also been at barns that probably should have this rule. This is one of those things I explicitly ask when I’m touring a facility though. For me, I really want to have the right to at least pop over some little jumps outside of lessons. I was at a barn with this rule for awhile and my eye was so freaking terrible because I could never get the chance to practice on my own and then my lessons were just wasted with me missing 50% of the fences. I’m also the type of person that needs to practice things on my own a little to get it right though. Canter polls helped but it wasn’t the same.

For me, I’m not in full training these days so I need to do a lot on my own and I’m also an adult. But for kids, novices, anyone in full training and lessoning 2 or 3 times a week, that rule makes a lot fine sense.

[Spudsmyguy]

@SonnysMom

I do find this interesting this is in the eventing forum as historically eventers used to be much more self reliant.

It’s in this forum because it’s an old thread and was posted here. I just picked the one that closely matched what I was talking about.

[meupatdoes]

I make it a personal rule that I don’t jump unless someone qualified is on the ground.

Jump heights and distances, ground rails, landing rails, etc generally need to be adjusted to get the best school, or the horse knocks something down and it has to be reset, etc. It’s a total drag to keep getting off and on to do this, plus it can interfere significantly with the flow of a school.

If a horse knocks a rail for example you want to be able to smoothly come around and re-present, not pull up, reset the rail, then trudge off to the mounting block, het your canter back, etc etc.

I don’t find jump schooling alone to be productive at all; all the good trainers I’ve seen generally have an assistant or a working student or a cotrainer around for exactly these reasons.

[endlessclimb]

I live this. I am basically the only one who rides though, so I just make due with what I have. Often when I knock a rail, I just remove that jump from my “course”, which is not ideal but helps to keep the flow.

I don’t jump high alone, ever. 2’3" max.

[OverandOnward]

@endlessclimb

I live this. I am basically the only one who rides though, so I just make due with what I have. Often when I knock a rail, I just remove that jump from my “course”, which is not ideal but helps to keep the flow.

I don’t jump high alone, ever. 2’3" max.

This.

I also don’t do complicated gymnastics over jumps. Maybe a ground pole in front. For me, jump gymnastics are for lessons. But I do know riders who are well able to do jump gymnastics on their own.

I do ride trot/canter ground poles set up like gymnastics on my own.

It is important to develop one’s own eye without an instructor in the ear all of the time. And to develop the confidence “I can handle this”, whatever ‘this’ is.

Ground poles can go a long way if there is really not an option to jump, though. The horse often gets the same distance that they would over lower jumps.