No more Pony Hunter Conformation....update, Pres Mod rescinded, conformation is back!

[TWilson]

I don’t think the point of judging conformation in the pony hunters was ever to teach kids to recognize good vs bad conformation - that doesn’t really even make sense. As a pony kid decades ago, for me it was about the extra cleaning and preparation I learned for the model, spending the extra time with my ponies learning (both me and the ponies) to stand up, and learning to recognize at the inital jog in the conformation class whether I was likely to move up, down, or stay where I was (and then finding out if I was right nor not). It provided an additional opportunity to get to know my ponies and bond with them from the perspective of being next to them on the ground versus sitting on their backs.

Question - is pony mascara really a thing?

[dags]

@TWilson

I don’t think the point of judging conformation in the pony hunters was ever to teach kids to recognize good vs bad conformation - that doesn’t really even make sense.

I completely agree. That’s why I (unfortunately) don’t see it as all that convincing of an argue for it to stay.

I appreciate the rest of your insight though. I’ve spent plenty of time in or around pony land but I admittedly went straight to horses as a kid and missed the whole pony thing. I hope what you say is all still true. I hope trainers are discussing not just faults in the child’s pony, but explaining why said fault is undesirable in an equine athlete, how it may affect their pony, and possibly even relate it to something the child is feeling (and possibly struggling with) under saddle.

I know pony mascara was discussed here. Truthfully, I can’t remember if it was chalked up to urban legend or actually A Thing… but I think it was.

[TWilson]

@dags

I hope trainers are discussing not just faults in the child’s pony, but explaining why said fault is undesirable in an equine athlete, how it may affect their pony, and possibly even relate it to something the child is feeling (and possibly struggling with) under saddle.

Well I have to be honest - none of this was discussed with me when I was showing ponies and I doubt it was with anyone else showing ponies back then. I’m pretty sure the model class in the pony hunters has always been about which one is the most beautifully put together, and which ones come after that one in what order. There isn’t any deep meaning behind it. But all that stuff I said about my personal experience with my ponies is true even if the reason behind it was shallow, so for me it was an important and meaningful part of my pony years.

[CBoylen]

I cannot be the only one who was taught how to stand up their pony to minimize its faults, whether it toed in or out or was long in the back or short the neck, etc.? Or had explained to them that even though their animal (or another watching one of the other classes model) was beautiful to look at from a distance, it had a splint or a curb or whatever blemish that would cause it to get moved back?

[TWilson]

@CBoylen

I cannot be the only one who was taught how to stand up their pony to minimize its faults, whether it toed in or out or was long in the back or short the neck, etc.? Or had explained to them that even though their animal (or another watching one of the other classes model) was beautiful to look at from a distance, it had a splint or a curb or whatever blemish that would cause it to get moved back?

Well sure - one of my ponies had a splint, so he didn’t go in the model and I knew I would likely get moved back a place or two if I jogged towards the top of the conformation class, depending on who was behind me. Everyone learned to stand them up so they looked as correct as possible. I thought dags’ post was a little more detailed than what my experience was and simply said so.

My understanding is that your education as a horseperson has been rather extraordinary practically from birth, and it shouldn’t be terribly surprising that most kids didn’t (and don’t today) have anywhere near the same level of access to experts that you have had.

[Salty]

This is something that they teach in 4H, in my experience.

[jvanrens]

In our area the only class that counted to your 4H year end completion was showmanship at halter, which helps a lot for learning how to present your horse properly both in grooming and training. Knowing how to show a horse and turn it out is a very important part of a conformation class. I remember someone showing at some western shows that should have walked out with the Grand everytime, but couldn’t show his horse worth a damn.

[LaurieB]

@TWilson

I don’t think the point of judging conformation in the pony hunters was ever to teach kids to recognize good vs bad conformation - that doesn’t really even make sense. As a pony kid decades ago, for me it was about the extra cleaning and preparation I learned for the model, spending the extra time with my ponies learning (both me and the ponies) to stand up, and learning to recognize at the inital jog in the conformation class whether I was likely to move up, down, or stay where I was (and then finding out if I was right nor not). It provided an additional opportunity to get to know my ponies and bond with them from the perspective of being next to them on the ground versus sitting on their backs.

This. Absolutely.

A picture for nostalgia’s sake, from the Large Pony Model, Devon 1967. There were 72 ponies in the division that year. About 60 of them showed in the Model.

[poltroon]

If the concern is just that older ponies get moved down inevitably “for splints” and that younger ponies are inevitably getting a boost from the model it’s possibly also worth a moment to assess if the judging rubric is correct before throwing the whole class out.

But I imagine that it’s that the current participants and show managers find it too much time and hassle for the part of the show they enjoy the least.

I didn’t show a pony in hand until I was an adult, and I found it to be a pretty interesting opportunity.

[Ponyplusaninch]

It was a dying art when I was a junior back in early 2000s. I did learn, but it wasn’t from my trainer at the time. I was at a show and happened to overhear another trainer (maybe an assistant out of Don Stewart’s barn??) coaching the pony kids, and I immediately moved the horse I was grazing closer so I could listen and learn. My impression up to that point had been that it was about grooming and pricked ears.

[Tini_Sea_Soldier1]

Well I just left the barn where an old school saddle fitter just gave me a full breakdown of why conformation is so important and what goes better in each ring. It was fascinating and in my 30-something years of riding, was not knowledge I’d ever been shared. It makes total sense.

It also reiterates why it’s ok to say, YEAH, this is partially a beauty contest in the hunters. If it’s got a noticeable splint or extremely cowhocked, maybe that should be part of the overall equation. Not just which person was able to wind up their toy after 283028 CC’s of paste and 403804 revolutions on a lunge line. It’s a humbling experience for the kids… I’ll admit that it’s tough to watch one get bumped down… but you learn that maybe you need to stand them up better, model to highlight their better features… or just smile big and hope that the reflection off your braces blinds them from seeing the big scar on the pony’s face!

[TWilson]

@poltroon

If the concern is just that older ponies get moved down inevitably “for splints” and that younger ponies are inevitably getting a boost from the model it’s possibly also worth a moment to assess if the judging rubric is correct before throwing the whole class out.

The conformation portion of the jumping class counts for 25%, and in my experience judges do a good job of keeping that in mind when and if they move ponies around for the final ribbons. It sucks to be the one called out on top and moved back to third (been there), but it’s only one class out of three (or it used to be three; don’t know if it still is). I never heard anyone on the competitor side complain about the conformation aspect of the pony division, and based on this thread, it seems that the request to do away with it came from show management because it’s time consuming and they would rather move things along more quickly.

[axl]

Sweet baby Jesus, @LaurieB, that class must’ve taken 2 hours!

[LaurieB]

@axl

Sweet baby Jesus, @LaurieB, that class must’ve taken 2 hours!

I don’t think it was that long, LOL. In those days, not every pony was a model pony. Some were quite plain looking (although wonderful jumpers.) The ponies were in four lines from one end of the ring to the other and the judge (I believe it was Mrs. Edgar Scott) made reasonably short work of finding what she wanted.

[APirateLooksAtForty]

That is your cynical old lady take. Many of us actively competing are very upset. And making our voices heard.

[bamboopole]

Is there a rule that says a pony rider must be human? Could we use robots like camel racing?

Inquiring Pony Mom

[bamboopole]

The great Iris McNeil found a pony kid applying eye makeup to an entry before the model. The famous steward asked the kid “why are you doing that?” The kid replied it was to cover blemishes and “it’s not allowed, but we do it.”

Trainer saw the interaction as Mrs McNeil introduced herself to the child. Kid was gobsmacked.

[CuriosoJorge]

$100 says most people reading this have sadly never heard of Iris McNeil.

Or, for that matter, Miss Iris, the zone 3 adult hunter who was named for her.

[aohunter0629]

That will be next for the “dance moms” in the sport

[ChronReader]

I need to re-read this, as it sounds like one venue’s interest in changing the nature of the division just…means it was changed for all?