We have a few associations in my area. One doesn’t put oxers in 2’ hunters, the other two do. I think it’s fine at 2’ and if they were there the first show, I don’t know why anyone would be surprised they came out at teh second show.
[QUOTE=Equitational;8232217]
So the consensus is, no oxers at 2’, oxers always 2’3"?[/QUOTE]
AND (just another thing to think about) at whatever level you add oxers, make them friendly. Only the out elements of a line. Maybe as an easy single midway through the course (even consider setting that 3" lower), but never as the first jump on course or the in to a line.
Small oxers are not hard to jump, but they make riders very nervous. Set them up for success.
[QUOTE=Wonders12;8232254]
AND (just another thing to think about) at whatever level you add oxers, make them friendly. Only the out elements of a line. Maybe as an easy single midway through the course (even consider setting that 3" lower), but never as the first jump on course or the in to a line.
Small oxers are not hard to jump, but they make riders very nervous. Set them up for success.[/QUOTE]
Yes I only had the oxers as an out of a line, and I did have a single oxer across the diagonal mid way through course (which first show I didn’t have a single oxer). First jumps are always verticals.
I did LS (2’) last weekend at a B rated show and there were a couple of oxers. We put one up at home to practice before the show. I’m glad, it pushed me outside my comfort zone.
Did you guys really look at those photos? I saw no groundrails at all, and the aforementioned pole with holes drilled in it and flowers stuck in it seemed not to be a ground rail either, but rather placed directly below the verticals.
USTA may not have regulations about fences that small, but I thought they actually DID have regulations about the presence of ground rails in hunter classes? (Edit: Yup. HU122.4 states "A ground line is required for all obstacles except in Handy Hunter classes.) Why be a stickler about one thing and then ignore a different, more important rule?
A tend to agree with the others - it’s a schooling show. If your entire class scratches because they don’t want oxer rails at 2’ I’d just take out the oxer rails. I don’t think I’ve ever seen oxers at 2’. Hard to make them narrow enough and ramp them.
And did the show manager have a say? I’m assuming they would rather not have scratched all those classes and lost the revenue.
You’re cutting off your nose to spite your face in this case, I think, OP.
This would be an interesting concept to get through my horse’s brain when he jumps the bounce as a big oxer, or takes the canter caveletti as a spread. Just chuckling to myself. Meanwhile, its good to know, and I didn’t, that USEF has a helpful, basic course design guide. Thanks, Addison
I am not sure I understand the big deal about the year end awards, courses are different every time and I don’t think it’s SO much easier to jump verticals than oxers that it would be unfair to let the kid on the board. After all, she’s proven she can get around oxers before. It’s a schooling show.
Instead, you sent her home without the show experience or ability to work through it at all. Bummer.
I would have had no problem doing just verticals for just one rider, this isn’t the Pan Ams. If there were ANY other riders to worry about that day who wanted to do the oxers it would be a different story, but as long as they weren’t asking you to lower the height, removing the oxers would be fine with me, I would want the kid to be able to show instead of go home in tears after a ruined day because her pony was acting up.
If there were other riders I would have volunteered to lower the back rails and send the kid around unjudged. these people bothered to come to your show, go the extra mile to make their day a success if you can.
Besides, on the year end awards – they ought to be the ones getting points! They bothered to come and at the end of the day that is one of the key motivations for show circuits to hand out these awards. keep that in mind!
This photo shows ground rails? As does this one and this one. Only jumps that don’t look to have one are these two, both of which I think are fairly inviting and forgiving. Ground lines don’t need to be rolled out super far, even just having them sitting 2-3" in front of the jump is enough I believe.
[QUOTE=Addison;8231964]
It is hard to build a 2 foot oxer that will not be wider than the height. Such an oxer is not very inviting and can be trappy which is not productive at the short stirrup level.[/QUOTE]
I don’t design hunter courses, but I do design and build show jumping courses for Horse Trials and Combined Tests.
By picking the right set of standards I can usually build an oxer that is 2’ tall and less than 1’ wide.
It jumps like a vertical, but the rider gains confidence about their ability to jump an oxer.
[QUOTE=fordtraktor;8232359]
I am not sure I understand the big deal about the year end awards, courses are different every time and I don’t think it’s SO much easier to jump verticals than oxers that it would be unfair to let the kid on the board. After all, she’s proven she can get around oxers before. It’s a schooling show.
Instead, you sent her home without the show experience or ability to work through it at all. Bummer.
I would have had no problem doing just verticals for just one rider, this isn’t the Pan Ams. If there were ANY other riders to worry about that day who wanted to do the oxers it would be a different story, but as long as they weren’t asking you to lower the height, removing the oxers would be fine with me, I would want the kid to be able to show instead of go home in tears after a ruined day because her pony was acting up.
If there were other riders I would have volunteered to lower the back rails and send the kid around unjudged. these people bothered to come to your show, go the extra mile to make their day a success if you can.
Besides, on the year end awards – they ought to be the ones getting points! They bothered to come and at the end of the day that is one of the key motivations for show circuits to hand out these awards. keep that in mind![/QUOTE]
Actually, in this specific case, these riders board and train AT this show facility too. So they ride and jump in this arena everyday. So they have the “home court” advantage in the case of my shows.
If your students are coursing at 2’3", they should be able to jump a few oxers right? If they scratched purely because the horse or pony was not cooperating, thats a different scenario.
[QUOTE=Equitational;8232210]
Guess I’m mad since they are saying I’m not following with USEF rules too (with having the oxers in 2’ and 2’3").[/QUOTE]
As a licensed official (which means people are OFTEN telling me that something is or isn’t in the rules, without having looked at the rules themselves) it is NEVER worth getting mad about.
When someone challenges you about something, either politely ask them to SHOW you the rule, or say “If you give me a couple of minutes, I’ll check the rule and get back to you.”
NEVER worth getting mad about, even when they are dead wrong.
[QUOTE=Ambitious Kate;8232309]
This would be an interesting concept to get through my horse’s brain when he jumps the bounce as a big oxer, or takes the canter caveletti as a spread. [/QUOTE]
Yeh,
TWO of mine (one very “up”, but the other quite lazy) are convinced that a set of 4 caveletti should be treated as an oxer to oxer bounce.
[QUOTE=Equitational;8232387]
Actually, in this specific case, these riders board and train AT this show facility too. So they ride and jump in this arena everyday. So they have the “home court” advantage in the case of my shows.
If your students are coursing at 2’3", they should be able to jump a few oxers right? If they scratched purely because the horse or pony was not cooperating, thats a different scenario.[/QUOTE]
The fact is, these aren’t your students and it being home court is irrelevant, (is it “your” show? I may have missed that). It seems like you want to be active and helpful in this show, but honestly your are having the opposite effect.
To me you are coming off extremely defensive and hostile over a nonrated schooling show. Maybe this isn’t the volunteer activity for you.
No oxers at 2’ in my experience - the small kids and old ladies will come off if their pony/horse has to make a big effort if they don’t meet it right. And IMO it is not “whiny” to complain about this - the people in that division are there for a reason and a local show especially should not be trying to kill them.
[QUOTE=Equitational;8232387]
Actually, in this specific case, these riders board and train AT this show facility too. So they ride and jump in this arena everyday. So they have the “home court” advantage in the case of my shows.
If your students are coursing at 2’3", they should be able to jump a few oxers right? If they scratched purely because the horse or pony was not cooperating, thats a different scenario.[/QUOTE]
It makes absolutely NO DIFFERENCE. They are there, entry fees in hand. Nobody else was. Why aren’t you trying to be a bit more helpful? Haven’t you ever had show nerves, even in a ring where you showed often? It causes people to tense up, she had to remember a course under pressure, and the atmosphere is more exciting, there’s an announcer I would guess – all things the kid could have gotten experience getting used to if you’d made it so she could ride. At absolutely no cost to you and you’d have made a few bucks for your charity from the entries.
I don’t see why you have it so invested in proving that she ought to tough it out. Something else must be going on, do you not like the trainer, have a history with the family, were you forced to tough it out yourself always and think that’s the only way to ride, what’s going on? Why call a little kid whiny? That’s going pretty far and there must be something bringing you to this because it doesn’t sound like this job is bringing you much joy. It ought to be fun, sharing the joy of showing with kids. you ought to be trying to make their days great and successful, not giving them tearful growth experiences, and if you think that’s what this is all about, time to reevaluate.
[QUOTE=Equitational;8231824]
I only had the complaints from the one barn (two riders from the same barn). No one from the first show (larger attendance) complained about oxers.
Here’s pictures of the cross bars. We used the same poles, fillers and poles for the rest of the hunter classes. All oxers were ramped…not spooky, a very inviting?
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=980715701973534&set=pcb.980716115306826&type=1&theater
Professional pictures…scroll to the end, those are mostly from hunter ring.
http://christiebsphotography.com/CamHJ/HJ/FrameSet.htm
PS. What are safety cups? Pictures? While I only have a voice as to the recommendations of the facility, I have to work with what I’m given.[/QUOTE]
You can’t necessarily assume at the grass roots entry level of the sport that exhibitors (or their coaches) will be knowledgeable enough to realize they have a basis for complaint.
Saftety cups:
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii168/MCL2057/Screenshot%202015-07-17%2012.59.45_zpsw0zxmetn.png
Per USEF rules, mandatory on the back rails of ALL oxers, and some other types of jumps (liverpools, water).
https://www.usef.org/documents/licensedOfficials/education/HunterCourseDesign2.pdf
https://www.usef.org/documents/licensedOfficials/education/JumperCourseDesign.pdf
[QUOTE=Equitational;8232387]
If your students are coursing at 2’3", they should be able to jump a few oxers right? [/QUOTE]
Absolutely.
I show on the West coast and all the Long and Short Stirrup classes have oxers. I’ve seen oxers in the 2’ warm up classes, but you have pros riding to school horses for clients who will be showing later in the day. I’m pretty sure that the 2’ classes DO have oxers…but don’t quote me on that.
FWIW…I don’t think you are being argumentative. Frankly, I’m sort of surprised by some of the answers here…that many areas of the country don’t put oxers in the LS/SS (2’3") divisions.
Quiz time:
Would this be a legal schooling jump at a USEF show?
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii168/MCL2057/Screenshot%202015-07-17%2013.07.56_zpsgea93v1g.png
For jumpers?
For hunters?
Would this be a legal show jump in either ring?
Why/Why not?
[QUOTE=M. O’Connor;8232461]
Quiz time:
Would this be a legal schooling jump at a USEF show?
http://i264.photobucket.com/albums/ii168/MCL2057/Screenshot%202015-07-17%2013.07.56_zpsgea93v1g.png
For jumpers?
For hunters?
Would this be a legal show jump in either ring?
Why/Why not?[/QUOTE]
For the general population to answer or just the course designers? 
I guess maybe I’m making a big deal about because the ones doing the complaining were RUDE to me AND my ring crew…and a month later, they are still complaining about the oxers from last months show.
All other spectators had good things to say from first and second show. The lost entry fees from the scratched classes didn’t make or break the profit for the show. My position is the show manager, I did everything from planning to getting volunteers and judges to building the courses. Other people could have volunteered to put on the shows, but no one did. I’m not getting any reimbursement, nor my volunteers. I’m open to suggestions from competitors, but if competitors or spectators are nasty, then I could care less if they come or not.
