"No Wagering in Dubai"

[Rackonteur]

I just learned this when I tuned in for the World Cup.

I think it would be great if that were the case here in the US. No betting, just – as the Fox commentators said – racing for the love of racing and the love of the horses.

But, realistically, how would that affect American racing? I know that at one point, at least, Churchill Downs did not allow at least some betting, but that was way before my time!

And how would it affect racing in the UK? It seems even easier to bet on races over there than here in the US, even if you just do as I do and watch the races at home on the TV and not at the actual track.

[Texarkana]

It would kill American racing as it is structured today.

[Angelico]

Why would you want to do away with betting?

So what if the only reason some people come to the track is to gamble? I don’t care why the come out, I just care that they do come out.

[2enduraceriders]

[QUOTE=Texarkana;8077368]
It would kill American racing as it is structured today.[/QUOTE]

Agree, betting is the only thing keeping racing viable.

[Willesdon]

There is a constant and ancient tension in the UK between ‘racing’ and ‘betting’ since the bookmakers (big organisations such as Ladbrookes, Paddy Power, William Hill etc etc) claim racing is funded by them and racing (everyone else involved in the industry) claims that bookmakers just suck money out of the sport. Most races are sponsored by bookies these days.

I believe that the earliest Parliamentary Act to control public gambling dates to the 1740s. The Government today takes a big chunk of betting tax - but the offshore bookies don’t pay that even if they are based on UK racing. The Bookmakers do pay a levy back into racing, regularly re-negotiated, but this is invariably less than 10% of their multi-million take. The levy is used to support prize money, etc. The UK prize money is very low compared to other racing nations.

In the UK, people who wish to bet need not go to a race course but can use high street shops or bet by phone or on-line on anything they can think of (e.g. sex of next royal baby, a white Christmas etc). There are also many people who go to the races (some 6 million each year) and bet as part of their fun (mainly small bets) during a very sociable and fun day out with family and friends. A day at the races is probably one of the few times Brits really dress up to the nines. The betting public and the racing public do not always overlap.

In France, betting is a state monopoly and money, a lot, goes back into equestrianism in general.

[Linny]

The betting handle provides the purses that incent people to breed and race. If there were no betting the industry would shrink to perhaps a few hundred folks who enjoy horses and sport.
For a look at racing without betting in the US, I offer the steeplechase scene. It thrives because a small coterie of people support it and most of those people live within a tiny sliver (relatively speaking) of the US, the mid-Atlantic. They are affluent patrons who provide facilities and horses and pay trainers and riders while seeking very small purses. Most are generational horsemen/women who pursue non racing equestrian sport as well.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

Dubai is a completely unique situation. You basically have several insanely wealthy families that bankroll the whole racing there. I suppose in a sense it is not too dissimilar to how TB racing, “The Sport of Kings”, originally evolved in England in the 1600s, where it was the domain of the Royalty/gentry, who ran against their own purses/stakes.

Racing pretty much everywhere else outside of Dubai is bankrolled in some form or other by betting. Either direct parimutuel takeout (USA, France, Japan, HK, Aus etc) or by a levy in countries with legal bookmakers (UK and Ire). Bookmakers also sponsor a lot of races in the latter, often whole cards of mid week races.

But to answer your question, no betting, and racing would shrivel to something like Linny described with the steeplechase racing scene in the mid-Atlantic, or what QH racing was like in Texas before betting was legalised. It would still be there, but much much more rarefied.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

@Rackonteur;8077342

I think it would be great if that were the case here in the US. No betting, just – as the Fox commentators said – racing for the love of racing and the love of the horses.

Why would you think that would be great?

How about no drinking? Would that be great too?

No sex?

No driving on Sundays?

Large parts of the USA are already a betting wasteland, thanks to religious idiots.

Why would you want to deny people the right to gamble? It’s a basic human right.

[Texarkana]

Another example of what removing pari-mutuel wagering does to racing would be the history of racing in Tennessee. Tennessee was the country’s thoroughbred leader throughout much of the 19th century. Tennessee had organized racing and Jockey Clubs even before Kentucky. Just prior to the Civil War, there were over 30 racetracks in the state. You literally cannot find a TB of American lineage that does not trace back to multiple Tennessee horses from that era: Bonnie Scotland, Iroquois, Bramble, Himyar, St. Blaise, Grey Medley, Glengarry, Albion, Enquirer, Glenelg, Luke Blackburn, Rossifer, Glencoe, Leviathan, Belshazzar, etc. etc.

In 1906, the state legislature outlawed gambling. By 1912, every remaining racetrack in the state had closed and the majority of breeders had left. Today there is nothing but vestigial remnants of Thoroughbreds ever being prominent in this state.

[arapaloosa_lady]

[QUOTE=Drvmb1ggl3;8077995]
Why would you want to deny people the right to gamble? It’s a basic human right.[/QUOTE]

That’s going a little far. Access to water? human right. Betting for entertainment? not so much.

[Drvmb1ggl3]

[QUOTE=arapaloosa_lady;8078124]
That’s going a little far. Access to water? human right. Betting for entertainment? not so much.[/QUOTE]

Denying people the right to gamble because you think it is immoral or “bad” is equivalent to denying people the right to drive a car on the ‘sabbath’.
If somebody thinks gambling is ‘wrong’, then don’t gamble. It’s none of their business what others chose to do with their time and money. It’s kind of like abortions, gay marriage, and drinking alcohol.

Calling it a basic human right is a maybe a tad hyperbolic, but the point still stands.

[danceronice]

Do that, racing in the US is dead or it winds up like the high-end horse shows that are dying out–a tiny percentage of very rich people playing at a hobby with animals. And you’d have the illegal bush tracks with (no surprise) illegal gambling. Then you collapse the TB breeding industry and put all THOSE people out of work, plus you’d end up with a huge market glut of unwanted horses for a while.

Dubai works without gambling for the same reason they were able to shut down a mile of public roads so Top Gear could film a drag race between a MacLaren and a Veyron–because it’s essentially the personal playground of a family so staggeringly wealthy the World Cup winner’s owner just gave his cut of the purse (around $6 million USD) to a charity. There isn’t horse-racing owner in the US who could legitimately afford to pass on that kind of money. But they aren’t the royal family of an oil fiefdom. The Mahktoums are. They can build a racetrack and host an international festival for pure amusement value.