When I post without stirrups, I’m using my knee and inner thigh to lift myself out of the saddle. Is that how I’m supposed to post all the time?
It seems ridiculous to be struggling with this. I’ve been riding for 30 years, but learned as an adult and not often under the supervision of a trainer. I didn’t have the ride without stirrups lessons.
So, yeah, here I am asking how to post the trot.
I don’t have any of those issues you refer to in the first paragraph. My saddle is a 17.5 CWD half deep seat with a long forward flap. My horse is tough to fit and this is my 5th close contact saddle, so I’ve been through saddle hell. I’m pretty sure I’ve had the same issue in all of the other saddles. I did ride in a handful of different CWDs when I was buying mine and this was the best fit for me. I also rode in a Voltaire Stuttgart and the seat was too deep for me.
The one saddle I’ve ridden him in that allowed me to sit his trot somewhat was a very plush and grippy dressage saddle that I sold when I changed disciplines. It’s very different from the dressage saddle I have now (which I never ride in…I bought it for his former half-leaser to use but it does fit me) but I should try riding in that and see what happens. Might not be comparable with the straighter leg.
I think riding in the dressage saddle is a good idea. I think riding in any saddle is a good idea, as it rules out quickly if you should consider your saddle as an issue, and maybe not even the saddle but the balance. My horses are young so I need to be on it all the time, I recently found my lower back was stiff after xc schooling, and realised my saddle was dropping too low in front, so a front raiser again and all good (I literally had it fitted a month earlier but my horse appears to have grown a bit again)
I dont ride without stirrups either, id like too, but again young horses and self preservation. I do ride one of mine bareback every now and again, but he is super sensitive to leg, so it teaches me to sit and not grip
It should feel like the inner thigh is working without gripping with your knee – I remember when I started riding w/o stirrups, the knee gripping would happen when my inner thigh got tired, which at first was very early on. The lower leg is at/just behind the girth, calf “on” the horse also without gripping. It should feel like the whole leg just drapes/wraps around the horse’s barrel, where the muscle burn kind of more about keeping your balance than squeezing super strongly/gripping, if that makes sense. And you don’t have to post very high, it’s more like closing your hip angle on the “up” beat (same position for practicing half-seat/2-point).
I didn’t have hills to ride on, but the suggestion of walking hills sounds like a good exercise to try, if that’s available to you. Also have heard of riders squeezing a rubber ball between their inner thighs off the horse/at home to practice. Apparently it looked kind of ridiculous but helped.
Agreed that saddle balance, not necessarily fit, can affect your position. One tipped me too far back, I think, so I always felt like I had to stand up to stay with the horse, or ride with stirrups too short to be able to close hip angle and get leg under me.
Lower leg was a big problem for me. Does your saddle have a calf block? If not, try a saddle with one. This may be a combination of your horse’s anatomy and yours. A calf block may be enough to change the equation.
My other suggestion: ride in two point and make sure you know when your leg is on the horse and when it is not. Really be conscious of it.
I don’t think no stirrup work is going to help you. I rode wo/stirrups just fine, using my thighs and knees. That is not really helpful. Two point will strengthen your leg.
If you grip with your knees or use them to get out of the tack when working w/o stirrups that kind of defeats the point, imo. that is how i used to ride w/o stirrups, because i didn’t know better, before a really excellent trainer trained me out of doing it that way. and it was a long, painful process. (for me, the goal isn’t to ride around forever without stirrups; the goal is use this exercise to strengthen leg, so form and function are effective and elegant, so leg is working properly at all times with or without irons – eg, if one accidentally drop a stirrup at any gait or over fences, one’s balance isn’t thrown off and leg stays on the horse and effective.)
Agreed that 2-point will help – it’s the same idea of wrapping the whole leg around the horse. and might be easier at this time, with stirrups, than trying to do too much no stirrup work in one go. if inner thigh is secure & strong enough, calf can stay on/around the horse and work independently of other body parts. if it’s easier to remember to keep the calf/lower leg on and around the horse, do that – that’s also what you should do without stirrups.
watch this – notice lack of knee gripping.
eta: IMO, whatever you do – whether it’s practicing at the walk or trot, with or w/o stirrups, posting or 2-point or sitting, in which ever saddle or no saddle – the idea is to develop a more secure leg. so be mindful of working towards that and not “cheating” by gripping with the knee or doing exercises just to go through the motions – that’s kind of like, idk, doing push-ups but doing them in bad form and wondering why they’re not working or hindering progress. if you’re knee gripping without stirrups, i’m guessing you’re also knee gripping with stirrups, it’s just less obvious, except for the loose lower leg. if you cannot not-knee-grip yet without stirrups, i suggest trying something else, like 2-point with stirrups or walk work – do it long enough, properly, and it will work the same inner thigh muscles.
Here’s what you’re missing. You aren’t supposed to lift your self out of the saddle to post, with or without stirrups. Your leg is supposed to wrap around and you choose whether to absorb the push from the hind end in your back (sitting) or let it push your hips out of the saddle in a controlled bounce (posting). Depending on how much energy comes through from the hind end, your posting will be higher or lower.
Same thing jumping without stirrups. The wrapped lower leg stabilizes you so that you can follow the horse through the air in jumping position.
Frankly, this is rarely ever explained well. So you are far from alone in not knowing it
That is a really excellent explanation. I forgot that I had to have “how to actually post correctly” explained/re-taught to me too. The horse’s inside hind leg pushes you out of the tack, and you close your hip angle slightly to post. Don’t think you have to get very high out of the tack, think about following the horse’s movement. Your lower leg also goes on when you post – so when you ask the horse to step under or over, it’s when that leg is coming up.
One aspect of riding w/o stirrups is to take away something you can brace against to lift yourself out of the saddle, but if you transfer that action to your knee, that’s not going to allow you to follow the horse with your leg and seat. It’s an inner thigh work-out, because that’s what keeps you balanced in the saddle and able to keep lower leg wrapped around the horse.
And it’s the same basic position for posting, half-seat, and jumping. You close your hip angle when you post, and for half-seat and over jumps you maintain that position instead of opening it and sitting again (or leaning forward/standing up).
@retiredhorse Thanks! I feel like I should intervene everytime people start talking about spending large amounts of time trotting in 2pt without stirrups with themselves up out of the saddle. You can either:
If you’re going to be up out of the tack, you need stirrups but still need good leg to stabilize you. We just make this stuff too hard.
I think your post should be shared with everyone struggling to ride without stirrups or the “basics” of riding.
I was the former, with the knee gripping, loose lower leg, and lawn-darting. No stirrup and 2-point work was really beneficial for me, but only after I had a trainer that valued the quality over quantity of those exercises and keeping the basics very simple, as well as explaining I didn’t actually have to be up and out of the tack. That posting and half-seat was a very small/subtle movement, actually, and going with the horse, not over the horse. (And that in the beginning, getting 5 good steps was a lot better than 5 minutes of going around incorrectly). If we had a hill, she probably would’ve utilized that too.
Yes to making it too hard by trying to do to much or make it too complicated. One of the hardest things was learning to do “nothing”: let the horse’s movement push you out of the tack, let the horse jump up to you… feel what the horse is actually doing/how they’re moving.
Wait–did everyone ride that course without stirrups? Impressive!
Thank gawd so many of you are saying that posting with no stirrups is not a fix after all, because it’s so hard and is really making me sore. I can canter around all day with no stirrups but posting…no, I can’t.
I hacked yesterday and did a lot more 2 point at the trot and really just paid attention to what my leg was doing during the ride.
Today I rode with a different trainer (mine is out of town) and she said that her students who learned to ride as adults all have busy lower legs and it’s because we lack that deep heel you develop when you learn as a kid. That makes sense. Her recommendation was to be really conscious of keeping my heels down when I post and as an exercise, that will slowly help me stabilize that leg.
I’m also going to make an effort to ride in some different saddles.
That thing about not lifting yourself up out of the saddle but letting the horse lift you is something that theoretically makes sense but when I try to ride that way, it doesn’t make any sense.
Only the top 4 (or however many they tested that year) worked off without stirrups. But generally the top contenders are able to jump without their stirrups, or should be able to, since it’s one of the possible tests.
No stirrups is just an exercise, not a fix in-and-of-itself. It’s suggested often because when it works, it works (and it’s never a bad thing to be able to ride without them in case you accidentally drop them). And when it doesn’t, it re-inforces bad habits because you compensate in the wrong ways for lack of core/inner thigh strength/balance (or you over-do it and pull a groin muscle – don’t do that either!). When you’re cantering (or walking) without stirrups, it’s good to pay attention to what your leg is doing too.
With my trainer, for her older or returning riders, she had them work towards 1 good lap around the ring, at the posting trot or 2-point, in both directions. But it’s not expected that anyone gets it right away. And 2-point with stirrups is another good exercise to get weight down to your heel. IMO, it’s not so much that you need your heels down as far as they will go, but because that weight lengthens your leg, which allows you to wrap it around the horse’s sides. When a rider grips with their knee or lower leg, the leg often rides up to propel rider upward out of the tack, instead of staying down and around the horse.
Try this: at the halt (which is a little counter to what we were discussing, but hear me out), sit on the horse as you would normally. Then arch your lower back/stick your bottom out behind you – that’s all you need to do to post or get into a half-seat. It’s not a big “up” movement with your lower leg or knee, it’s mainly the thighs that are doing the work. At the trot, when the horse’s inside hind leg steps under, think close your hip angle (with your hips/bottom “out/behind you”, not your shoulders forward), instead of lifting up.
This is again kind of ridiculous-looking/feeling, but if you have a full length mirror at home, stand in front of it, so your side is in view. Get into riding position, align your shoulders, hips and heel, by bending your knees. Then close your hip angle by sticking out your bottom (don’t move your shoulders) – that’s the “post” or half-seat position. That’s all you really have to move. The horse’s movement does the rest, on the flat and over a jump (and your inner thigh-to-lower-leg determines your balance on the horse and ability to move with him).
2-up, 1-down (posting up, up, down) is a great exercise that you can do with stirrups. I also prefer it to posting trot without stirrups endlessly, because you can’t get as brace-y/grippy. You can also do 1-up, 2-down as a way to improve your sitting trot (and leg in general). Also with stirrups, just change up your position frequently: 10 strides 2-point, 10 strides posting, 10 strides sitting. Gradually reduce to 5 strides, etc. until you can move between the 3 instantly and seamlessly.
Since I’m old and out a shape, I mix up my no-stirrup work with posting and sitting. (This has the added benefit of making you enjoy the sitting trot way more!) For example, without stirrups, do long figure eights across the diagonal, sitting trot through the short side/half circles and post trot across the diagonal. Work up from there. Music really helps with my no-stirrup work because I can set goals like “until this song ends.” Finally, when doing no stirrup work, don’t just loop around the rail endlessly. Do something… make shapes, do lateral work. My sitting trot instantly gets better when I’m doing lateral work and not just thinking “stop bouncing d**n*t!”
Wonders12, since I can’t sit the trot, I do exactly these exercises.
retiredhorse, THANK YOU. That is very helpful! I tried that in front of the mirror and it made sense. I’m riding again on Thursday and will try that out.
Two years ago in October I signed up for a GM clinic the following summer. I hadn’t done work without stirrups in years. I literally started 5 steps of trot at a time, because that’s how many steps I could sit without tightening the wrong muscles and starting to bounce. 5 steps, walk. 5 steps, walk. repeat repeat repeat repeat. Slowly it built to a full circle, then 2 and so on. I started adding in canter the same way, a few good steps and walk. Eventually the occasional jump, then gymnastic lines.
By March, I was able to do almost as much work without stirrups as when I was 16 while in my early 40s. In the July clinic, I was able to do the no-stirrups day successfully.
Don’t look for improvement in leaps, look for improvement one (literal) step at a time.
Oh, and focus on keeping your butt muscles relaxed. As soon as you tighten them, you’ll rebound off the saddle like a ping pong ball. When that happens; walk, let your legs wrap long and around, relax your butt muscles and feel your seat bones plug into the saddle and try again. As soon as you start to rebound, repeat.
Is your horse a kick ride? I recently switched from a hot OTTB to a draught cross and for the first time in a long time my leg felt insecure. I realized I was turning my toes out a lot to get the horse moving. So I work on turning my toes in and getting the horse to move off the aids better, this has helped stabilize my lower leg a lot.
Bristol Bay, how fit is your upper body? Are you strong from shoulder to hip? If your body above your hip angle is dropping forward, you will lose your depth of heel and pivot on your knee, allowing your lower leg to loosen. Much of equitation is technique, like swinging a golf club or baseball bat, but you have to be strong enough to use technique successfully.
Depth of heel starts at your shoulders. That’s why core strength is so important to riders. As you work w/o irons, make sure you sit up with your shoulders back, and let that balance fall to your heels. Sitting up will help keep your knees in, too.
It’s still gonna burn-good luck!
He’s on the lazy side of the spectrum, but not too bad. I had a truly lazy horse a few years ago. I refer to his type as eq killers. Never again!
Thank you!
This is a great post. I work on my fitness a lot. I do two activities a day from the following: run 2-3 miles, ride, swim 45 minutes, do an hour of calisthenics/core work. I ride five days a week, so the other things I normally do twice a week. I have had terrible posture all my life, so I really have to work on my core and upper body. I thought I was in okay shape before starting all this fitness work, so am I fit now? I honestly don’t know! But I can tell you that it’s less of a struggle now to keep my back straight, but it’s still hard and I am always told to roll my shoulders back and keep my shoulder blades down.
So this is very helpful!
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