When my trainer tells me to stabilize it, I can drop deeper in my heels and grip with my lower leg, but then my knees gap and it only lasts a few strides anyway.
I’m quite tall and riding a 16.1 hand horse, so maybe that’s part of the problem.
Even when my leg feels stable, I glance down and it’s bouncing around in a circle. It must look ridiculous.
Any suggestions?
No stirrups. Think about wrapping your whole leg around the horse. Make them as long as you can, pointing your toes down, and then drop your heels – that’s where you want your leg. Don’t hike up your leg or bend your knee, when you put your leg on or when you post. If your inner thigh is weak, this will be difficult. Post and 2-point without them, for only as long as you’re working your leg muscles correctly. Then go a little further the next day. You should feel some burn in your inner thigh, but don’t overdo it to the point that you pull a muscle or work the wrong muscles/position because your legs get tired (that only reinforces incorrect muscle memory).
Lunge line lessons with no stirrups or reins. Ditto above.
Drop only 1 stirrup at a time on a circle, both directions. If you’re weaker on one side, this will definitely show you which leg, because you’ll have trouble staying in the middle of the horse. When you’re secure in the saddle, you can drop either stirrup, on a circle, and not change your balance or effectiveness of leg.
Check that you aren’t pinching with your knee, and then over-correcting by opening it. If your core and inner thigh muscles aren’t strong enough to balance you in the saddle, that will cause lower leg to swing and be less ineffective. So it’s not “just” telling yourself stop moving your lower leg or putting your heels down.
In addition to strengthening your leg, try riding in a different saddle. I tried a consignment saddle recently and was surprised at how much more stable my leg was; it put me in a very good position. Since you are tall, I’m curious about how well your saddle works for your longer legs.
Try riding in two point, and stay up there. Your legs will be sore for a day or two but it will stabilize your whole leg.
I do ride in two point, trot and canter, every ride. I should probably make a point of doing more at the trot.
My saddle is custom to me and my horse.
Honestly, I was looking for something besides “no stirrups” because I dread having to do that. Alas, there’s no other magic bullet.
I’m curious as to what a difference it would make riding a beefier horse.
Well… you can tie your stirrups to the girth, but I do not recommend it, it’s not safe. Or show-ring legal. :winkgrin: May just put your leg in the “right” place, without encouraging effectiveness or getting you any more secure in the tack.
Riding a wider horse might help you feel where your leg is or put it in a better position. I know I prefer a taller (over 16hh), narrow horse to a wide one (regardless of height). Wouldn’t hurt to try. It may not magically fix the leg – or if it did, it wouldn’t fix the problem on your current horse.
Riding BOTH horses, with concentrated effort on the leg, may help too because of more saddle time.
No, I would not trade in my saint of a horse! 
I’m just wondering if my lower leg would be quieter if there was more “there” there.
Since I retired and am riding more, there’s been a series of things I’m learning to do properly that I never realized I was doing poorly. My canter seat and hands have improved dramatically (it feels dramatically better to me).
This is the next thing in that series.
If the horse was wider, it might be more comfortable/natural for your leg to go around him. Or it might exacerbate the problem – which may help you feel what you’re doing (like gripping with knee?) – because your leg is in a different position.
Check stirrup length too – could they be too long?
I’m always a little surprised when a trainer says to fix something, without giving rider a way to fix it? Like I had swinging lower leg, and I don’t recall (good) trainer saying “fix your leg/stop swinging it/tighten leg”. (She just stuck me on a lunge line w/o stirrups or reins.) Because if your muscle memory/fitness isn’t there, like you said in the first post, you can only hold it for so long before you forget or your legs just can’t. That’s why the no stirrup and 2-point exercises are important, to strengthen the core, legs, and develop more balance – I really think without that, it’s not easy to fix a lot of riding issues in isolation (your leg is after all attached to the rest of you :D). Like trying to solve problem C, before A and B.
ETA: swinging lower leg is obvious, and I can see why someone would like to fix that right away, but when core/inner thigh strength & balance fell into place, the lower leg became quieter and more secure/on/around the horse also, without focusing so much just on that.
Can’t really help, but I do not think “grip with the lower leg” is the answer.
I have better luck thinking “keep my knees down” than "drop my heels.
Maybe it would be helpful to know that I also can’t sit my horse’s trot. He’s a big mover for a 16.1 TB.
I was just hacking today, so I crossed my stirrups and tried posting. OMG the burn! I could only manage half way around the ring at a time. I also worked on sitting trot. It’s not easy!
I’m gonna be sore tomorrow.
Start by dropping your stirrups for 5 min and sitting the trot every day, build up to posting and longer times. Also if it is in the wrong position and loose tying your stirrups to the girth reinforces a stable leg and strengthening. Only tie with something that breaks easily though, I use leather spur straps that are old. Nobody loves no stirrups work, but if you want to get better that is your best answer
Yeah I’ve got on of those too! Very hard to sit. It’s worth it though. Just keep telling yourself, if you can sit that trot, your legs will never move around again. It is so worth the burn!
Good job! Halfway around the ring is a start!
If you and your horse don’t mind the dropped stirrups, maybe try doing sets? Like, don’t cross them so you can pick them up. At the posting trot, go halfway around without stirrups, then pick them up for a lap, then drop them again for half the ring, and so on, both directions. Or give yourself some breathers so you don’t over-do it.
Also, try putting reins in outside hand and pulling up on the pommel with your inside hand when you sit the trot. See if that helps you sink into the tack. You can try it at the walk too – also try 2-point without stirrups at the walk. And 2-point with stirrups at the trot, until you can drop your stirrups for that too.
For some of the bouncy ones, I think to myself to go with their movement, rather than try to sit still, if that makes sense? And having them go forward, carrying themselves (not faster), makes them a tad less bouncy/more swing-y, especially when you can get on a rhythm.
Lots of great suggestions above. Try each one and see what combination works for you. Often the things that work best, are the things we enjoy the least. Ride without stirrups. Ride the two-point at all gaits with and without stirrups. Take lunge line lessons sans the reins and stirrups. Bridging your reins and pulling yourself into the saddle via the pommel is useful to help your seat feel what it should be doing. Try riding serpentines using only your leg to guide the horse. You won’t be able to do all these things perfectly out of the box. The goal is to try the exercise, establish your baseline and then work on building your baseline up to more steps or more minutes, whatever the case may be.
I concur its most probably your saddle.
I had one (luckily my horse is on to his tenth!) that I did eventually tie my stirrups to the girth in an attempt to fix my wandering lower leg, new saddle and the problem was completely solved.
I currently have a cheapie adjustible dressage saddle for my young horse and as im a jumper, I tend to ride with quite short stirrups, but this saddle there is a point where I go from incredibly stable lower leg (but dropping stirrups as long), to exactly what you describe - like im drawing circles (at my preferred shortness), it must change the balance for me at that point.
Longer stirrups and I tend to lose them on this big mover, so im trying yoga to stretch my hips out a bit to sit better.
Anyway id be suspicious of your saddle.
Okay, guys. What aspect of saddle fit do you think might be the cause?
If your saddle is too big (seat and/or flap), you might be swimming in it a little and getting bounced around. Or even if it fits properly, but sits you in the wrong position or throws you off balance (like if its too deep). I don’t know how to pinpoint it (maybe trainer can help? or saddle fitter?), aside from sitting in a bunch of different saddles and seeing what you like, what’s easier to 2-point in and what’s easier to sit trot in. eg, If I sat in someone else’s saddle, I tended to immediately notice if it was too big, because it felt too wide – the flap felt like it was bulging away from the horse (if that makes sense?) or too bulky – and it made it harder to get my leg around the horse, encouraged some knee pinching and leg swinging. Less of an issue for me if saddle was slightly too small.
IME, it was possible to learn to overcome a somewhat ill-fitting/unbalanced-for-you saddle that does these things (if, say, you cannot afford another saddle or it fits a hard-to-fit horse), but it adds extra degree of difficulty when working to strengthen one’s position.
for me it seems to be something to do with stirrup bar placement, and maybe my body proportions.
One of my current saddles my horse loves, my lower leg is fairly ordinary in it (over a fence). My other horses saddle there is a much better balanced and the problem isnt as bad.
Both these saddles are nice and Im not too concerned other than it looking crap. Im sure I could improve it somewhat with fitness and strength, but the difference in my position over a fence in the saddles is obvious, I feel like I ride the same mediocre way on both horses!
The word that sticks out to me is Grip. Instead of thinking grip, I think of Anne Kursinkis’s illustration of having “oily” joints, meaning they move and flex, but nothing is locked. Your weight is flowing through your seat, hips and knees, into your heels and you aren’t gripping or pinching anywhere, but rather you are draped around your horse. I would do a lot of two point, but only as long as you can hold it correctly, then take a break. Good luck!
For all the suggestions about trotting without stirrups? I have a lot of success walking without stirrups, especially including hacking around my back field up and down hills. I make sure my leg feels wrapped around the horse without ‘gripping’ and just walk. I work on everything from hacking to all my lateral work so that I am still staying wrapped around as my legs move to different positions.
Walking down hills without stirrups is miraculous for making you wrap around and anchor without getting stiff. If you stiffen/pinch with the knee/grip with the heel, you get shoved around more or the horse speeds up. Self preservation is a fantastic tool
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