Looking for some non biased opinions and experiences with non GMO feed products. From what I gather they are very high in sugars and starches. In talking to several equine nutritionists it seems as though very few horses are actually sensitive to the glyphosate in Roundup, but this seems to be the new fad. I know there is a lot of discussion out there about Monsanto, but I honestly don’t see the problem.
Honestly, there is no benefit physically for feeding either GMO or non GMO. The benefits are more related to farming practices and cost. GM crops are healthier, able to repel the insects that feed on it, which means a lot less pesticides, less soil erosion because they don’t have to till the soil as much, they use less herbicides because weed control is better, which means you spend less in the store when you buy it. It’s actually quite cost prohibitive to purchase non GMO feed for your horses, it’s expensive and there are no proven benefits of feeding non GMO.
GM crops like corn, wheat, soy, rice, alfalfa, and sugar beets, have been made herbicide resistant meaning you won’t see the glyphosate, the crop is genetically resistant to it on a cellular level. Glyphosate actually has one of the better safety and environmental profiles than many others you may see get used anyways.
GMO grains have been in production for over 25 years now and there still is no evidence that the consumption of GMO is detrimental to humans, livestock etc.
This is one bandwagon you will not see me jump on lol
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Non-GMO corn isn’t any higher/lower in sugars than GMO corn. The variety of corn matters a whole lot more, some are much sweeter than others.
In talking to several equine nutritionists it seems as though very few horses are actually sensitive to the glyphosate in Roundup, but this seems to be the new fad. I know there is a lot of discussion out there about Monsanto, but I honestly don’t see the problem.
Yes, it’s a new fad. Just like gluten intolerance (and I don’t at all mean to dismiss those who truly are).
I won’t feed anything with corn - too much risk of aflatoxins, as just happened with a Cargill plant in Cleveland NC.
There aren’t GMO oats or barley, so no worries there.
All beet pulp in the US is now GMO. But how much glyphosphate does anyone really think is left in the shreds? Same with wheat middlings, another common ingredient.
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@JB is 100% correct this is a fad. Much like the initial organic surge, gluten free, low fat everything and so many more, non-GMO is a fad. The organic’s industry actually strongly dislikes non-GMP products (and is lobbying against them at times) because non-GMO products can be grown at a lower price point than organics AND consumers often think they are getting the same thing. There are studies with beef, and I think poultry comparing GMO to non-GMO feed and animal health. There was no correlation found.
Monsanto is a sleazy company but so are most large companies in the US. I could go on a rant about that…I will refrain unless someone wants to poke the bear (I work in food manufacturing and have lots of opinions right or wrong).
One major change to the animal feed industry that has finally been fully implemented is the Food Safety Modernization Act requires animal feed to be manufactured to similar standards as human food. This includes a robust food safety plan, employees training in food safety and more aggressive inspections my state and federal regulators. With FSMA the FDA got teeth to force a recall for food safety, labeling and false statement issues. Prior to this act they kinda could but had to play nice with everyone. In the future we are going to see more voluntary recalls of animal feeds much like the human foods.
Long story short. I am willing to eat GMOs and I am willing to feed my animals GMOs.
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I did some research on this a while back.
GMO crops are not higher sugar per se, except to the extent that those crops have been selected to be higher sugar, particularly corn and beets, as both are used for sugar production. I don’t think whole corn has much place in a horse’s diet. Beet pulp has had virtually all the sugar extracted.
The GMO crops under discussion are “Round Up Ready.” That means they are resistant to glyphosphate, which can be used on them to eliminate weeds in the fields. The GMO crops are not “healthier” and they do not repel pests or weeds.
Theoretically that could be done, but it isn’t what the current set of Monsanto GMO crops do. Thus, GMO crops and glyphosphate go together right now. The relevant crops for horse owners are corn, beets, and alfalfa.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup_Ready
Glyphosphate can also be used to kill down annual grain crops including oats and cause them to ripen faster.
Glyphosphate is understood to break down quite quickly and not pose as much risk to the water table and environment as other herbicides. However, researchers are starting to identify trace amounts in some human food products.
That said, I think that (a) unless you are 100% organic on yourself, it is silly to be organic on your pets; (b) given the shorter lives of animals, I think there is less concern over total lifetime effects of trace contaminants in feed; © oats and even beet pulp and soy form a very small part of a horse’s total diet.
I am also rather cranky about what I see as predatory or fear-mongering sales tactics with sellers of “organic horse feed.” The one dealer I’m thinking of sells a grass/alfalfa mix for $700 a ton, and organic alfalfa pellets for $50 for a 50lb sack (feed store conventional alfalfa pellets are about $15 here).
The dealer makes a big deal about her grass hay and grass mix hays testing glyphosphate free. Well, a grass pasture or grass/alfalfa pasture is by definition glyphosphate free because the glyphosphate would kill off the grass component. So you know right away that if its grass hay or blend, it is glyphosphate free.
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That’s what I want to hear. I think it’s a bunch of garbage too.some people make a really big deal out of it though. Great explanation!
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I have been told that organic selenium is better observed. My horse was on a ration balancer for many years and never had a problem. When the barn was switched to completely organic I had to either change to organic or find a new place for my horse. So after much resistance I went ahead with the Organic.
I have nothing against organic in fact I buy about 90% organic for myself and I buy my horse organic carrots and organic flax oil. However there are much less organic choices in organic. He is now on a vitamin mineral supplement, organic soaked alfalfa pellets And organic rice bran oil along with low sugar Timothy/alfalfa in a slow feeder. He looks good now but a bit overweight. I think my boy looked absolute best (leaner and equally shinny) when he was on the ration balancer several years ago.
That’s got nothing to do with whether the feed is organic or not. You went from a ration balancer that was presumably fairly low calorie at the amount fed, to a higher fat total diet. If the vitamin/mineral supplement is complete, I would suggest taking out the rice bran oil, which he clearly doesn’t need. And just feed a minimum amount of the alfalfa pellets, just enough for a carrier for the supplement, since the horse is already getting alfalfa hay and the pellets are redundant. You might also want to reconsider 24/7 free choice hay. How many pounds a day is he putting away?
IMHO, the major health crisis facing most pet horses today is obesity, and once they have become metabolic or foundered from that, you face a nightmare of management choices. The idea of 24/7 forage dovetails nicely with our cultural beliefs that food equals love, or people not wanting Fluffy to feel deprived or bored over night.
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I agree that obesity is a major problem in the horses. This horse gets hay out of a 1x1 slow feeder hay net and alfalfa as recommended by my vets based on his ulcer history. He Didn’t have behavioural issues and he was never thin and he never had loose stool. He was chunky at the time of his first ulcer diagnoses alfalfa and 24/7 he was still recommended by my vets and the internal medicine specialist. He only gets about a tablespoon of oil daily and I don’t think it’s going to make a big difference with his weight. It’s oil for the omega-3 I generally use flax oil.
Intermittent fasting has been proven to contribute to the formation of gastric ulcers. My friends horse died due to grade four bleeding ulcers that had not yet been diagnosed it was quite devastating. My horse gets a small amount of soaked alfalfa pellets which are to help buffer his stomach in hopes to prevent ulcers from ever recurring. Alfalfa is proven to help ulcers.
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Organic forms of all minerals are generally better absorbed than inorganic forms. But, that has nothing to do with GMO or organic food. “Organic selenium” isn’t the same idea as organically grown food.
My horse was on a ration balancer for many years and never had a problem.
He is now on a vitamin mineral supplement, organic soaked alfalfa pellets And organic rice bran oil along with low sugar Timothy/alfalfa in a slow feeder. He looks good now but a bit overweight. I think my boy looked absolute best (leaner and equally shinny) when he was on the ration balancer several years ago.
how many pounds of the alfalfa pellets, and how much oil? Was he on grass hay before? Overall it sounds like a pretty significant jump in calories. That’s not an organic issue.
Well no, the idea of 24x7 access to forage is because that’s how horses need to be eating. That 24x7 stomach acid production developed because they eat 16-18 hours a day. Big-bodied , muscular herbivores need to eat a lot of food to sustain those bodies.
But 24x7 (or close) access to hay does NOT have to be an all-you-can-eat buffet. No, they don’t need hay in front of them 24 hours a day, but they should also not be without the choice to eat it for more than a couple of hours a few times a day. 8 total hours max. But even having that forced on them isn’t ideal. When not being worked, they should be able to eat hay/grass when they want, not just when they are allowed (exceptions notwithstanding).
And yes, boredom due to nothing to eat is something to be avoided in horses. Bored horse who have nothing to eat are stressed. Regular boredom of that sort leads to ulcers, and stereotypies in those genetically predisposed.
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I know that the free forage concept is meant to replicate how horses graze in the wild, and that constant grazing is better for them, and that an empty stomach can lead to ulcers. But my point was that in pet horses, this can end up with owners stuffing their horses with high calorie high quality hay. Horses graze constantly because fresh grass is relatively time consuming to eat, and contains a high amount of water. Plus most “natural” grass in the wild is relatively low nutrition for much of the year (drought, winter, etc). Horses are not generally turned out 24/7 on fields of alfalfa. I think that a horse grazing in any but the most lush spring pasture would find it difficult to eat the equivalent of 20 lbs of hay a day.
I’ve watched some folks at our barn put their horses on 24/7 organic alfalfa blend hay, this particular set up is a 300 lb round bale that’s delivered and put into a net. Typically the horses have been getting through 300 lbs in about ten days, so about 30 lbs a day, and they are easy keeper types. And yes, they are heading towards obesity with fat pockets that would worry me. The hay is attractive enough that they just stand there and eat. One owner took her horse off this system because he was just standing in his stall by the roundbale eating all day and night, and stocking up because he wasn’t moving around or going into his runout paddock.
Anyhow, the comparison of grass to hay is a bit like the comparison of grapes to raisins. You probably couldn’t eat enough grapes for that to affect your weight. But it sure is easy to snack on raisins, and a handful of raisins is probably the same as a whole bunch of grapes.
It is definitely a conundrum, because you need to balance keeping the horse’s stomach full with him not getting obese. It might depend on the horse, which is the biggest risk.
I’ve known OTTB that could have good hay 24/7 and would wander away from it to watch the world go by, and who would stay racing fit on an all you can eat hay plan, needed extra calories to plump out. And then there are the stock horse, Iberian, and Morgan types that have exuberant appetites and are extremely easy keepers.
And BTW, rice bran oil is not a good source of Omega 3. Flax is still the best source.
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I think the idea that the horse’s stomach must be “full” is a misplaced concept. If you go out West and drive through many of the ranges that are inhabited by feral horses you will see many locale’s where a horse can’t get a “full” stomach. Graze at certain times of the year can be sparse to the point that the horses lose significant weight until conditions change and grazing improves. A feral horse east of the Big Muddy would likely not find such conditions in most places. But there are some where they would.
And there is another, critical aspect. Stall kept horses eat without investing labor in eating. They are “sedentary gorgers.” That’s a Bad Thing in and of itself. But making a horse stand in a stall for several hours, perhaps in a low stress environment, with nothing on the stomach seems like at least as bad an idea. IMO this argues for a much higher level of turnout than is found in most stables. I understand why turnout is administratively difficult (cost of land, cost of fencing, cost of labor to move horses, cost of labor to prepare horses for work, cost of ground maintenance, etc.). None of this, of course, means a thing to the horse’s digestive system. An AWFUL lot of people put hours of study into the micro-requirements of equine rations but let the exercise aspect just go by the boards.
G.
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I think the idea is that even a little food in the stomach helps keep the stomach acids from eating up the stomach, so a range horse browsing twigs would stay more comfortable than a nervous OTTB locked in a stall for ten hours overnight with nothing to eat.
But the big question is, how do you stage manage “a little food” in the stomach? Some horses do well with small hole hay nets, but my mare sees these as a challenge, and worries them to death, and empties them in the same amount of time it would take for her to sweep up equivalent loose hay. Plus it really cannot be good for their necks and polls to be wrestling with nets to that extent.
We’ve been “genetically modifying” agricultural crops since the beginning of agriculture. The fact that we’re now doing it directly at the DNA level instead of through selective breeding and hybridization does not mean the food is “bad.” Quite frankly, it’s probably what’s going to save our planet from the barrage of toxic chemicals and environmentally incompatible practices that agriculture has become in the past 100 years. (And that’s not a rip on farmers or the agricultural industry, BTW-- they’re doing what they have to do to stay economically viable. It’s a lose-lose situation.)
We have been selecting crops to be high in nutritional value for centuries. The whole idea is to get more “bang” for your buck. So yes, GMO crops tend to be higher in nutritional value, including sugars & starches… just like the hybrid varieties we’ve been cultivating for decades (or even centuries) are higher in sugar & starches than their wild counterparts.
Personally, in the future, I do suspect we’ll find pesticide/herbicide use to be a larger problem than they are currently accepted to be. Their uses are so ubiquitous and in so many varying forms that it’s hard pinpoint correlations to them. With that said, the alternative of going “organic” isn’t a more sustainable solution, nor is there concrete evidence to prove it is any healthier/safer. I personally can’t justify going through all the trouble and cost to support certified “organic” agricultural practices that are equally flawed thanks to regulation.
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I reduced his calories. He gets 1 cup of vitamin mineral supplement, 1/2 cup visceral plus (ulcer prevention supplement) 1 cup soaked alfalfa pellets (1 cup wet) a sprinkle of oil, low protein filler hay it’s nothing hay probably 6% protein I don’t like this hay at this time a year that’s all I can get feed store doesn’t even have hay. I just switched to a 1x1 slow feeder, he looks good but I am trying to slim him down a bit which is why I just switched to 1x1 slow feeder. My vets wanted hay in front of him at all times and alfalfa. He was overweight at the time he saw the internal medicine specialist back in 2017 she said he looked healthy in her report and had no concern about his weight and still recommended alfalfa. He only had a superficial ulcer at the time and appeared healthy. I am hoping with the ultra slow feeder and low quality hay he will slim a bit.
The term “organic” in it’s original chemistry definition, means carbon-based chemical compounds. The alternative is inorganic compounds, things like salts, metals, etc. that aren’t exclusively based on carbon bonding (although they can still contain carbon). Living organisms synthesize complex carbon-based molecules to survive, although just because it’s a carbon-based molecule doesn’t necessarily mean it has to come from a living organism. It works in reverse, too-- inorganic doesn’t automatically mean non-living; living things can also produce inorganic compounds.
But because chemically “organic” compounds are associated with living things, the term began getting used colloquially to distinguish between compounds derived from living things v. compounds synthetically created in a laboratory, with the presumption that synthetic chemicals are “bad.”
Then it morphed into today’s branding of the word to describe agricultural practices that don’t use synthetic chemicals. To get the official organic moniker by the USDA, there is a long list of bureaucratic rules producers must abide by, many of which are merely regulatory in nature and have no basis in environmental sustainability.
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Around here, our coarse low protein grass hay can be scary high in sugars, like 25% NSC. People think it is “low nutrition pony hay” and then their ponies get obese and founder on it. So I would have that tested if it’s being fed 24/7 and he is eating it up.
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Up until a week ago he my horse was on tested low sugar Timothy which was 11% protein. I hope to get him back on tested hay asap. He is not IR and does not have metabolic syndrome. I just don’t have thousands of dollars to have expensive hay shipped in at this moment. However my cousin owns a hay transport company and will bring him low sugar hay within the next month. The hay he’s on now hay has not been tested so I am not sure of it’s. Sugar levels yet but simular hay tested basically had nothing in it , low protein, low sugar just nothing.
Probably so on something on the stomach but you rightly ask, “how do we do that?” Some sort of “hay net?” Automatic feeding device? Barn help? There is just no, easy solution. If you put the horse on turn out you give them a chance to burn off excess calories doing something other than cribbing, weaving, etc. But that has it’s own difficulties, as noted.
Every choice has consequences, for good or ill.
G.
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