Non pro breeders - how did you decide to breed?

[BeeHoney]

I am both a pro breeder (though I have cut way back) and someone who breeds for myself.

I have cut back drastically on breeding because recently it is invariably cheaper and less risky to go out and buy young horses. I both breed and buy and I can tell you that flat out. Breeding feels cheaper because you don’t pay all the money out at once. Instead, you spend $1500-4000 on a stud fee, $500-$4000 on associated breeding fees, $6000 board/vet/farrier on the mare, then you have board and care for the mare and foal, vet care for the foal +/- one or two larger vet bills, and then you have to board and care for the foal until it is ready to ride. And even that doesn’t guarantee that you end up with a live, healthy, rideable, useable horse when all is said and done.

Most people feel like they have been singled out with unusual “bad luck” when the mare aborts and a year or board/vet care/breeding expenses have been wasted, or a foal dies, a foal is born with conformation defects, a foal is sick and runs up a huge vet bill, a foal is mediocre, a foal develops OCDs as a yearling/two year old and needs surgery, the mare dies immediately after foaling, etc. No, you have not been singled out. Breeders experience these things, it comes with the territory. If everything goes like clockwork then you have been blessed with good luck.

Here are my considerations for breeding.

1. I have to absolutely LOVE the mare. No confo flaws. Nothing to “improve.” Mare is sound. Mare had a successful career. Mare has a good pedigree.
2. Mare is reproductively healthy, gets in foal easily, foals out with no problems, is either a maiden or has produced consistently nice foals. Problems get expensive FAST, don’t breed for them.
3. Have appropriate, healthy place to house broodmare, and broodmare + baby after she has foaled.
4. Have enough of a financial cushion that the breeding money is money that you can afford to lose. Also, have some extra money laying around. Breeding is risky–at the drop of a hat you might have a mare or foal on the trailer to the hospital and have a heap of vet bills.
5. Know that your foal might turn out very different from what you expect and be okay with that. Might have a very different personality than what you wanted or have an aptitude in a different discipline. If you want a very specific type of young horse, it’s better to shop for that than to breed for it. Many amateur riders are very particular about the kind of ride they want out of a horse. That can be a really specific thing that you aren’t likely to reproduce.
6. Be prepared that breeding and raising foals is a very different skill set than dealing with adult horses. It’s a steep learning curve, you will do better if you have access to experienced breeders, especially when it comes to foaling and caring for foals and weanlings.
7. Realize that the time and energy and money you put into breeding will likely cut back on your riding time.

I feel like I sound rather negative, but if you are financially well situated and really want to breed your mare and your mare is of the appropriate quality, and you have the logistics arranged and you accept the risks, then it’s your business if you decide to proceed or not.

[ElementFarm]

I haven’t read through all of the responses, but my answers are similar to what I did see.

I can’t afford a super high-end horse with no baggage (physical or mental) so it makes sense to try to make my own.

I love love love my mare and would love a carbon copy of her

I want the experience of the whole process – from picking the right stallion, to all the vet visits and watching the mare’s waistline expand, to teaching the resulting foal and experiencing all those “firsts”.

While I had tried (unsuccessfully) to breed many years ago, we moved last year to our own small farm. So while it’s hard to rationalize paying full board on a unrideable baby for 3-4 years, if they can live out in my own back yard (so to speak) it becomes much more justifiable.

I have a lovely, very nicely bred, and with good show record mare. She’s my hearthorse (also my profile picture). I decided the timing was right to breed her(due to my work schedule and her needing some time off). Because I didn’t want the foal to grow up alone, I also bred another mare, who while not as fancy as mare #1, is also very correct, well bred, and had a decent though short show record. I talked to my coach who has a history of breeding some very nice performance hunters, and looked at bloodlines, and offspring records. While I would love to, and am able to if necessary, keep both foals for life, I’d like to have them marketable as well, so while I didn’t go with a flavor-of-the month stud, I did want something with name-recognition in the pedigree.

Breeding went smoothly, though FEDEX screwed me, and ended up costing us about $1K and 2-3 weeks lost. Subsequent vet checks were exciting and I loved watching my mommas-to-be get heavier and heavier.

Mare #1 foaled last week and I couldn’t be more pleased with the result. My new colt is 99% perfect (only improvement would be that I wish he wasn’t going to turn gray). Mare #2 should foal in 2-4 weeks, and I’m excited to see what she produces.

I am definitely bitten by the breeding bug! I fully intend to breed at least one this year or next. I may take a break for a few years due to an impending work relocation, but I think I’ll do it seriously in a few years when I move to a different job, and breed 2-4 every year, with the goal of selling them.

In the meantime, I’m excited to show my new foals on the line, and hopefully one or both will grow up to be my fancy, ammie-friendly AA/AO hunter.

[Didi]

BeeHoney put in a nutshell very nicely. Sound advice.

[Sporthorse_Shop]

I bred my first horse 15 years ago, because at the time I wanted another one of her. I ended up with a filly that ended up smaller than I wanted. As well, I matured more and outgrew in talent that level of horse. However, I kept her and she is a companion/pasture pet, she is sound and sweet just too small for what I do and not worth breeding on. I tried breeding a few more times and just hit problem after problem (mare killed foal during birth, abortions, illness) and quit for over 10 years. I started up again and again hit problem after problem, mainly infertility. I finally took a “free” mare that was unsound in foal. I put free in quotes, because there just is no such thing. The mare foaled, the colt ended up picking up every illness possible and $5,000 in vet bills later, finally had a 3 month old that was going to survive.

Due to all of the extensive care my SO and I gave him, I am quite bonded with him. He is now almost a 2 yr gelding. I know everything that happened to this horse. He trusts me completely. I took him to his 1st horseshow in Feb which had over 2500 horses and he kept it together by looking too me for confidence. He is beautiful, full of personality and super smart. I am very proud of what he is turning into. He is a clean slate and I love honing his skills and teaching him.

I was bitten once again by the breeding bug, but the actual part of breeding can be super expensive. I watched my vets numerous times and decided breeding isn’t rocket science, it is more attention to detail and maybe a touch of luck. I was also not able to stomach or really afford the breeding vet fees which I thought were ridiculous, $2000+ per cycle not including stud fees. I took a repro course taught in CA in early 2015. I learned how to ultrasound, inseminate and flush. I found a used ultrasound machine that cost less than one cycle of breeding fees. I ultrasounded all 3 of my mares in 2015 and thankfully 2 were super patient with my fishing around. I learned to read all 3 mares very well. I also learned in that course the extreme value of performing cultures/cytologys up front. Unfortunately one of the mares had some serious infections issues that I ended up discovering and having a repro specialist vet treat. By time numerous treatments ($$$) were complete, we only had the one shot at breeding since it was Sept and she didn’t take. I am stubborn and determined to try one more season this year and am trying again with this mare this year. The second mare sustained a cervical tear which sidelined her until this year.

However, the third mare who I had tried with a different vet to breed the previous year for one cycle and did not get pregnant, I decided to manage myself. I had the repro vet check my work via U/S periodically. But, I did the ultraounds, tracked her Ovulation, timed the ordering of semen, inseminated her (which made for quite the story for my IT coworkers when I bolted out of a training session because I was tracking the delivery of semen to inseminate my mare) to seeing the first heartbeat at 20 days (beyond cool, I had my SO holding a flashlight to see what I was doing and then both of us saw the heartbeat at the same time) to tracking it through the first 60 days, to now finally in the last month awaiting this foal anxiously.

This was a way for me to continue in breeding and make it affordable, the vet service fees were killing me. I have 3 I hope to breed this year. I am also hoping to take an ET course so I can add ET to my breeding next year. I do think you have to be some flavor of crazy to do this stuff though. It is not for the faint of heart because there are all sorts of things that can go wrong and I have experienced many of them even with my limited time doing this.

[Hulk]

How did I decide to breed? I want what I want, and the only way to get exactly what I want is to just do it myself. The old saying if you want something done right do it yourself. I am ever so glad I chose this path.

[4THEHORSES]

I’m planning on breeding my mare in the next year or so. For me it was a complete no brainier. I always buy babies and raise them myself. My mare has everything I’d look for in a Dam. Confo, disposition, excellent health, sound as can be, etc.

Her breeders are only about 40 mins from us and we’ve become friends over the years. They got pretty excited when I mentioned we’d like to breed my mare and I know they’ll help find a great Sire ( whether it’s one of theirs or not) and will be happy to share their wealth of information and experience as breeders.

I love educating young, unspoilt horses and watching them progress into solid adults, both under saddle and in all other aspects.

It helps that we have our own ranch and use the same vet who works with my mares breeder, so we’re confident in having appropriate facilities and access to a vet who is very experienced in breeding/foaling draft horses.

[butiwantedapony]

I am awaiting my first homebred, due in about 4 weeks. I decided to breed because I had a truly stunning TB mare land in my lap, but she has issues from training and I don’t currently have the time to fix them. The time was good for me personally and so I found a stallion and bred her. She is big, a stunning mover, sweet and perfect conformation, a true modern sport horse type and nothing like most modern TBs.

I also cannot afford to buy this quality of a horse. I have my own facility with plenty of pasture and so my expenses are pretty low outside of the stud fee and the expense of getting her bred (which was about 1500 total).

I am SO excited about this foal and I just love working with babies - I am a professional and primarily start young horses, but this is my first that I will raise from day 1.

I will be beyond happy if I get a carbon copy of the mare. And I’ll be equally happy if I get a carbon copy of the stallion. Plan to keep the foal.

[TrotTrotPumpkn]

I had been thinking about breeding, although the timing was bad (we didn’t own a farm yet). I had been in love with Galoubet for a long time, had almost tried to buy a 20 year old maiden daughter before, until my brain kicked in. One of a handful of his remaining daughters came available locally and I snatched her up and my mare is the result.

Now I’m a bit older and my jumping coach moved and I find I’m less inclined to want to jump. The daughter’s sire really shines through (dual purpose), she is a better mover than her dam, and now I’m breeding that daughter for a dressage horse for myself. I like dressage horses with some jumper blood. However, if she has further foals, they would likely be by a jumper sire and for sale. I’m excited to see what she produces and what kind of mom she is! She will be 10 when this foal is ready to begin real work, so basically he/she is a bit like insurance, although not necessarily her replacement, if that makes sense.

That said, I absolutely agree it is probably cheaper to buy a foal on the ground. I won’t even tell you how much I’ve spent breeding to have only two viable pregnancies (thousands and thousands). There was a pretty financially painful learning curve. You can’t just rely on hoping the professionals around you will do everything in your best interest and you need to educate yourself. I’m also worrying every day that something goes wrong with the delivery and I lose my mare. I also really enjoy working with babies and young horses, but I will say it is probably more dangerous and definitely eats up time, as stated above.

[Adagio]

Temporary insanity that has morphed into long term insanity

[BeeHoney]

One other thing to consider when breeding for yourself is time frame. Under optimal circumstances, it will be 4 years before you have something rideable, and it will be a totally green horse. In 9-10 years, you will have a trained adult horse well into its career.

How many of us know exactly what our lives are going to be like in 5-10 years? How many of us know exactly where we are going to be with our riding in 5-10 years? A lot can happen. Health and finances can change. Goals and interests can change. Confidence levels can change. An illness in the family, a pregnancy (human), a bad fall that shakes your confidence and makes you not comfortable riding young horses, a bad experience in your chosen discipline that makes you decided to change disciplines…all these things happen to people.

The horse you breed for now may not be the horse you need/want in five years. Then you are stuck with the difficulty of selling, accepting that as a smaller breeder you will almost certainly be selling at a loss, or the expense of keeping a horse that isn’t suitable.

Expanding on this theme…life is short. If your finances allow you to both breed and ride, great. But if you have to choose, there’s a very high value to having something you can ride and train NOW rather than four years from now.

[Ajierene]

I decided to breed my mare because I wanted to. I have worked with problem horses (my mare being one), legged up performance horses, and started young horses. The young horses were generally the most fun. I enjoy riding a made horse, but I really enjoy the experience of training a horse up. I enjoy “fixing” problem horses, but I had not had the experience of breeding my own and wanted a potential upper level horse.

I talked to my trainer and other trusted people about breeding my horse and they all concluded it was fine (no major faults that I would not want to pass on to a new horse). My mare was not the most stunning, but she was mostly correct and willing. I had never made it as far in the competition world with her due to finances, but she was the horse I had in college.

I spent the next two+ years looking for the appropriate stallion. One thing I did that I will warn you about was to ask here about stallions. Just be prepared, a number of breeders will tell you to not breed your mare, she isn’t good enough (despite never seeing your mare as I did not post pictures) and buy a horse already on the ground. A touch hypocritical if you ask me. There were other breeders on here that suggested stallions. Also, if I wanted to breed just to breed, there was a nice little paint stallion where I boarded my mare and I could have bred to him for free.

I narrowed my search to stallions within 8 hours of my house - which is still literally hundreds of stallions considering where I live. I wanted to go see that stallion before making the final decision. I decided to breed my TB to a Warmblood to add a bit of bone, hopefully get a bit better feet (her’s weren’t bad, but TBs are known for bad feet and I didn’t want to perpetuate that on less than stellar feet), and I don’t know…wanted a warmblood.

The stallion that I eventually bred to lives about an hour from me, got excellent marks in the stallion test he did in the state stud in Germany and when I went to see him, he was really focused on his owner/handler even though it was breeding season. He had pretty much everything I wanted. The stallion owner was also impressed with my knowledge, stating I knew more about the breed, testing process, results meanings than professional breeders she talks to - in other words I really did my homework.

BeeHoney is right, you don’t know where you will be 5-10 years down the road. My filly is now 5 and really starting her show career. I don’t have as much money to show as I originally thought I would have at this time, so we are starting slower than anticipated. I do plan to be flush with cash in the next 5 years, but we will see how that turns out!

I did a rough calculation of cost of horse for the first 4 years compared to getting a green-broke 4 year old and the numbers were equal to being in favor of me breeding, especially since I did it on a budget. I paid for the stallion fees during the Spring breed auction and got them half price (helps that the stallion was 4 at the time so not really known, though he has great bloodlines), worked off board for my horse and then filly (when they lived at two different places, board for my mare was paid in full), got a great vet that didn’t cost and arm and leg and was also lucky that there weren’t to many big problems.

I wanted mare, slightly taller than my mare, better mover, braver over jumps, Rolex potential even though we may never get past Training Level eventing.

What I got - mare, same height as dam, better mover, braver over jumps and totally Rolex potential (obviously I would need to give her the course map as my eyes will be closed the whole time). I may breed her in another 10 years for a next horse…I may not…we shall see where I am then.

[BeeHoney]

Ajierene, to be fair, the cost analysis of breeding vs. buying should take into account the breeder’s time. For example if you worked off board to pay to keep your young horse, that should be accounted for. This is a minor detail since most of us enjoy horse care (though some of us might rather be riding).

Now, don’t get me wrong–assuming OPTIMAL circumstances–mare gets in foal immediately, no foaling complications, healthy foal, no injuries or illnesses, no OCDS, no conformation defects, and nice healthy three year old as a result–yes, it is possible to raise your own horse at a comparable or possibly even favorable cost to buying.

However, it’s fantasy for anyone breeding a mare to assume that they will have optimal circumstances. If you are doing a FAIR financial analysis, you have to take the risk into account. Not every breeding results in a nice healthy 3 year old horse four years down the road. I wish I had numbers on this–what percentage of breedings result in a nice healthy adult offspring without a huge vet bill somewhere along the way.

Primarily because of the RISK, breeding is not a good value for most people who experience sticker shock when looking at young horses. Not only is breeding risky, there’s no cap on the potential costs or number of complications, and no guarantee you will end up with ANYTHING at the end of the process.

You might pay a fortune in vet bills to get your mare pregnant, and then she might have a dystocia, go to the hospital and have a dead foal removed from her for a huge vet bill with you being grateful that you simply have your mare back alive. That’s right–you could spend $6000 in vet bills plus the stud fee and a year of board and care on the mare, and simply end up on your knees thankful the mare you started with survived. I wish I were being dramatic.

So, make sure you have enough money saved up when you set out on this endeavor and are prepared for the unexpected.

[exvet]

[I]Now, don’t get me wrong–assuming OPTIMAL circumstances–mare gets in foal immediately, no foaling complications, healthy foal, no injuries or illnesses, no OCDS, no conformation defects, and nice healthy three year old as a result–yes, it is possible to raise your own horse at a comparable or possibly even favorable cost to buying.

However, it’s fantasy for anyone breeding a mare to assume that they will have optimal circumstances. If you are doing a FAIR financial analysis, you have to take the risk into account. Not every breeding results in a nice healthy 3 year old horse four years down the road. I wish I had numbers on this–what percentage of breedings result in a nice healthy adult offspring without a huge vet bill somewhere along the way. [/I]

I will first concede that the risk [for unexpected expenses and disappointment] is there and it’s high. However it’s not fantasy for all of us. I have raised multiple foals. The mares I used were either purchased for my children as riding mounts (so an expense for another purpose) or given to me. The stallion is/was mine and produced without stud fee or expense to me other than a performance horse which I trained myself and would have owned in any regard. The mares I also backed/trained myself so no out-of-pocket expenses for their upkeep/board except those I would have paid for as I would for their original intended use. I am a veterinarian; so, there was very little in veterinary expenses. I never had two breed a mare more than once nor did I ever have a difficult foaling experience with my own mares. The one exception was a mare who got crampy after foaling (normal delivery) and required to be treated for colic which I took care of on my own. I trained and eventually sold the foals, well, all but one. Thank fully no injuries on those foals and who knows what the future holds with the one who is left. I own my place and do not have to board. I can promise you that I can and have bred and produced for far less than I would have had to buy the same caliber/quality of horse. I realize that my situation creates some large ‘exceptions’ to the ‘rule’ but there you are.