Non pro breeders - how did you decide to breed?

[kashmere]

Like probably every horse owner who has ever owned a nice mare, the thought “well, maybe I’ll breed her” has crossed my mind off and on recently. Realistically, I likely will not. I know that it’s a smarter move, generally speaking, to buy a young horse that is already what I want and not to gamble - let alone risk my mare’s health, the foal’s health, etc.

That being said - if you are a person who breeds occasionally, or who has bred for your own personal horse - what were the steps that went into that decision?

Or, if you want to play a more hypothetical game, what are some of the questions/ thought’s you’d go through if:

• you had a well conformed mare with good bloodlines/ registered
• proven broodmare before purchase
• proven performance horse - in whatever discipline, let’s assume at a higher level than just “got a blue ribbon at the fair” kind of thing

If you were toying with breeding that horse - what would you be thinking about?

[Didi]

I decided to breed because (A) It was an experience I had never had before in the horse world, and (B) I don’t have the money to buy an A/AA horse and wanted to take my chances to breed something that I would never be able to afford to buy. Having said that, I realize that the money going into the breeding is only the tip of the iceberg and I have been squirreling away money to get my colt the best training possible.

Not having a mare, I went first to a breeder who leases her broodmares. Very reputable. She told me “if you are willing to take the money it takes to breed and throw it out of a moving car onto the highway, then you could breed.” I always appreciated that honesty. I thought about it and she bred dressage horses and I wanted a hunter/derby horse, so I looked elsewhere for a mare.

I found one in my own backyard! My BO had a beautiful Rio Grande mare that she had bred to Sir Caletto. The mare had injured herself and could not perform, but was an outstanding mover and had previously done well on the A circuit. The breeding my BO did had gone smoothly and her colt was terrific. I asked if I could lease her.

Knowing I wanted a hunter, I looked for a quality hunter stallion. I found Crown Affair, who had excellent blood, an outstanding performance career as an AO horse for his owner and a multiple derby winner under John French. He was also known for his puppy dog personality.

I did not care about registration as I intended to keep the foal whether he turned out to be the derby champion of the Universe or a nice backyard trail horse.

I enjoyed the entire process from start to finish. I loved researching, going to all the vet appointments, keeping up with the development of the foal, even getting very little sleep the last week of gestation! I have also loved bringing along my gorgeous foal. He moves like a dream and even jumped a 4-foot fence once when he was accidentally startled by someone cutting across his paddock!

It is risky. I have read many stories of heartbreak on this and other forums. I enjoyed it and had the best luck I can possibly imagine. That’s my (very long) two cents!

[ASBJumper]

[QUOTE=kashmere;8600306]
Like probably every horse owner who has ever owned a nice mare, the thought “well, maybe I’ll breed her” has crossed my mind off and on recently. Realistically, I likely will not. I know that it’s a smarter move, generally speaking, to buy a young horse that is already what I want and not to gamble - let alone risk my mare’s health, the foal’s health, etc.

That being said - if you are a person who breeds occasionally, or who has bred for your own personal horse - what were the steps that went into that decision?

Or, if you want to play a more hypothetical game, what are some of the questions/ thought’s you’d go through if:

• you had a well conformed mare with good bloodlines/ registered
• proven broodmare before purchase
• proven performance horse - in whatever discipline, let’s assume at a higher level than just “got a blue ribbon at the fair” kind of thing

If you were toying with breeding that horse - what would you be thinking about?[/QUOTE]

I would be thinking about how awesome my mare is and how I want a carbon copy, just younger. :winkgrin:

My first horse was a mare - I did everything with her, Dressage lessons, hacking, Hunters, Jumpers, bareback frolicking, lol… she was never lame, she was never nappy or dangerous, she had great conformation, an even better disposition and a great jump - her gaits were “meh”. She was papered.

I bred for myself, because I wanted all of my mare’s qualities plus hopefully a little something extra (a little more height, slightly better gaits maybe?) and I wanted a clean slate. I wanted to control everything from instilling manners to good nutrition and vet/farrier care right from the beginning. I didn’t want to fix anyone else’s mistakes. Yes I could’ve shopped for a just-born foal but I would’ve known very little about what the mare was really like (no breeder is going to admit to you "oh, fyi, the mare is a dangerous b*tch, but i’m sure the foal won’t be anything like that), so I never go by what other people consider “ammie friendly” or “good temperament”. I have found people have very low standards in that department, as a general rule. :eek:

My second mare, my main broodmare at the moment, I bought as a coming 3-yr old and I started her myself - she proved to be everything I wanted in a broodie prospect: sane, sound & hardy, comfortable, athletic, low-maintenance and a blast to ride and train - had she not been all of those things, I would not have bred her. Her coming 5 yr old daughter is the same way.

I am still what I would consider an ammie/hobby breeder. Have bred 3, none of which I own anymore, and am breeding for another this year (tried last year, mare aborted before the 35-day mark). I love, love LOVE breeding and raising babies myself. In my “youth” (LOL i am 35), I was riding/handling nothing but older/made horses and, like most riders, every so often I would get bucked off, stepped on, dragged, slammed into stall walls, kicked, bitten, etc etc… since i’ve started working with/starting young horses, MY young horses, no injuries. None. Zip. In fact the last two I bred I never even came off of - not once. It’s sooooo much better (and more rewarding) to install the buttons yourself!!

Good luck with whatever you choose to do! :yes:

[candyappy]

A big majority of the horses I’ve owned have been “home bred”. Being registered is not a concern for me. When I have a mare who is built well, has a mind to match and is a pleasure to ride I would look into finding a stud who complimented her. The stud was always registered and on several occasions I bred for a mule foal.

I was never disappointed in any of my foals and when the situation came where one would need to be sold years later ( life happens), I never had a problem finding a willing buyer.

My current mare is coming on 12 and as much as I like her, I currently have no plans to breed her because raising and then training take time I don’t have right now.

[kashmere]

This is great, thanks! My mare is still in the project phase, but I have a spidey sense she’s going to be something pretty special. Like all of my horses, she’s a bargain-bin find with some baggage (best kind, love 'em!), and despite how much I truly adore bringing along remedial horses, I would love for my next one to be an actual clean slate.

I know a bit about breeding - I was a w/s at a place with a small breeding operation, so I’m not totally in the dark; however, something I am wondering about is age of the mare. This mare is not a maiden, and by all accounts from her previous owner is a great broodie - easy births etc (had two foals - saw one of them who was just lovely). Is there an age where the risks start to really increase, or is it more about overall condition of the horse at whatever age?

[Tory]

Sorry in advance for the long story:)

The first mare I owned was a retired broodmare. I got her so that friends and family had something to ride. Although she was a nicely bred mare, she was not very athletic and there wasn’t anything about her that would lead me to want to breed her.

When she was 19 yrs old, I had her at a boarding facility that had an Appy stallion who had mostly been used for western pleasure. He was older too and was not being used much for stallion services. His owner and I were friends and since the stallion had been used for live-cover and that was how my mare had been bred, we came up with the great idea that these two horses could just enjoy each others company once a month or so. Because who would have thought a 19 yr old mare who hadn’t had a foal in 7 years could get pregnant?

Well on the first cover she did. I just figured during her pregnancy that I would sell the foal since I was pretty darn sure that anything those two produced would not make a good event horse. She had a beautiful chestnut filly 354 days later.

Too cute to sell, I figured it would be a great next horse for my mom.

About the time that this filly was 6 months old I retired my event horse from jumping. Not wanting to start from scratch, I decided to go serious horse shopping. I flew all over the country and my budget kept jumping up in increments of $5,000-$10,000 with each next trip!!! One day my dad (whose only horse experience was a plow horse) asked me why I was flying all over the place looking for a horse when I had a perfectly good one right here (the filly)? What did he know?!

Well about a month later and still no new purchase, this little filly was loose in the arena and just started jumping 2’3" fences on her own! Perfect form, knees high and tight, bending lines, combinations, etc… 7 fences in all!!!

She has been the best event horse I have owned and in July of 2015 she had her baby!!

I love every day that I get to work with them. From the moment they are born to the day I get on for the first time. The bonding is something that cannot be described. I am a second mom to them.

[khall]

I have been lightly breeding since 1989. Mostly WBs but one Conn/TB cross and my most recent was a Luso X 3rd generation mare line for me. I like foals, I like young horses and I like making my own mistakes and not fixing other peoples so that is why I have been breeding off and on for years. I have sold just a few, but not a “pro” by any means. I have been a stallion handler as a professional for a breeding farm so I like the whole breeding aspects from the get go. It is a journey and so much fun to be the first to lay hands on them, the first to halter them, the whole she bang. Only two have not worked out over the years, one extremely spooky, found her a new home that loves her, and one just did not want to be a riding horse, never heard one bellow like that when putting a saddle on for the first time! (usually a non event for my horses) she went to a young horse pro who liked challenging horses.

Not sure if I will breed again, though my Luso X filly is the nicest horse I have bred to date and it would be great to put her to a PRE or Lusitano (I am liking the baroque horses these days). She is just two so plenty of time for her.

[JenRose]

I got into breeding to breed my next show horse. I found an older proven TB broodmare who I adored and bred her to Cunningham. Mare was big, kind and had a long history of sporty offspring who were going and showing. Since I was inexperienced in foaling out, I wanted a mare that knew her job and my girl was a great teacher. I loved that Cunningham has such a long history winning in the 4’ hunters and packing his mom around the amateurs. I am now riding the first foal born on my farm who is a 5 year old and is exceeding all my wildest dreams. There is no feeling like riding a horse you planned for and dreamed of, watched them grow up for years (seriously the waiting is torture!) and then riding them. I cried the first time I threw a leg over and have also cried for pretty much every other milestone (first trot, canter, jumps, etc) we have accomplished.

Of course after the first foal was born on my little farm, I found that I loved breeding! The matchmaking, anxiety filled ultrasound appointments hoping for a perfect follicle and then that elusive black dot that will hopefully grow up to be a champion, foal watch, caring for the mommas and babies, etc. I love it all!

I now have 2 broodmares who I alternate breeding years on so I have 1 foal per year and the mares get a year off after foaling. I am a one woman operation and it works for me. I have sold 3 foals and kept 2. The 3 that sold have been shown on the line and last year, a colt I bred won his 3 year old Non-TB colts/geldings class at Devon, and a filly I bred was 2nd in the 2 year old Non-TB fillies class. It was a dream come true and I still have to pinch myself that I made such stellar babies!

Things I have learned:
#1 - Breeding is EXPENSIVE!!! Like I could go to lots of A shows every year for what I spend on vetting, stud fees, proper mare care, etc.
#2 - If you don’t want a carbon copy of the mare, then don’t breed her. Mares bring more to the equation than the stallion. For realz!
#3 - Don’t breed for the hot new thing. Breed for something that you are prepared to keep for life if needed. Pick your stallions and mares with the mindset that they may be on your dime forever and you will be the one riding and showing them.

[exvet]

I first fell in love with a breed of which there are not many in the states. When I was looking into the breed there were far fewer than there are even today that were broke to ride. I purchased a couple of two year olds, then another and started backing/training, etc. I decided then that I wanted to get into the breeding aspect. I am a vet who use to do the equine repro thing and grew up on a farm in a family familiar with the process. It took me a long while to find the stallion of my dreams. I already had the mares. I was overjoyed at what I produced but my tenure was cut short for personal reasons. I kept one foal for myself.

That being said I bred every one with the goal that it was what I would want to keep, break out and ride because if I didn’t then it wasn’t worth putting on the ground. My mares were trained and shown by me as were my stallions, from the beginning. I weeded out a few by this process who despite good looks and meeting breed standards never made it into the breeding shed because they didn’t make my entire list of criteria which included trainability/rideability and disposition. My breeding stock were also kid tested and mother approved. I don’t think I would have done anything differently.

[Boo]

Like others i couldn’t afford to buy what i wanted so took the gamble to breed.

My first attempt at breeding was not successfull - mare aborted at 9mths. She was a quality mare and had successfully bred prior and since i owned her but wasn’t to be for me.

The next mare i bred was a quality athletic tb mare i had been gifted as a 21st bday present - more eventing type though. I bred her to a percheron x sporthorse sire who had done well at dressage and showjuming. The foal was a cracker but so not my type personality wise. He was into everything, very confident, bossy and athletic. I ended up selling him as a near 2yo for bugger all money. With that owner he took out the newcomer dressage board as a 5yo and was schooling grand prix at 7. Super mind for working as long as he had something to do that was new and challenging. She ended up selling him on and the new owner let me come out for a ride as by fluke i found out he was being boarded at a co-workers place. Was great to see him and have that ride but i’m glad i sold him. We would have been bad for each other personality wise…i just dont’ have enough sense of humor to cope with his playfullness lol

My current mare is a clydie x ??. Shes well and truly proven herself as a riding horse and she a nice heavier type but with her unknown breeding i’m very hesitant to breed her. I keep joking that if i ever got pregnant so can she but that’s really not likely

Both times i did try the breeding game i my parents had acreage so the keeping costs were low. I’d never do it if i had to board.

[DarkBayUnicorn]

I bred my mare at age 8 because I truly wanted to reproduce her with a few minor improvements. An inch in height and a titch better trot. She’s 15.3 on a “tall” day in her shoes, but can walk the lines. She’s been a big winner for me since age 4.

So many people questioned why I would take a year+ away from the competition ring to breed her.

Guess what? She’s gone back to the ring and continues to win and win and win.

And I have a strapping young gelding coming 3, who could win a hack anywhere, jumped a 10 his one and only time through the chute, and is a complete pocket pony. He is already wearing some of his mother’s hand-me-downs.

And he is unflappable.

Whether there is ice sliding off the roof, or a toddler under foot, or another boarder’s dog nipping his heels, he just looks at me, and if I don’t react, he doesn’t react.

[Beentheredonethat]

I have bred four horses in an area where it is expensive to do because of lack of land and costs. I did it because there is no way I could afford to buy the quality I wanted. I borrowed someone’s mare who had produced nice horses and paid her costs for the two years and bought frozen semen on a stallion I knew well personally who had produced quality horses. I knew a GP horse by similar breeding, and my long listed friend knew the mare of it and the mare I borrowed, and told me the mare I borrowed was better. So, pretty good bet.

I brought the result to GP. That’s what my thinking was on them. I cannot afford to buy the quality, and I’ve dealt with enough issues on horses I didn’t raise, so this allows me to raise them the way I want–in pasture and not ridden until four.

I think I’ve been extraordinarily lucky and successful. My last one was born super windswept, but she is phenominal now at almost 6. My only real failure was trying for ONE more and getting my Knabstrupper. Everything went perfectly twice in breeding, but she didn’t take. That was expensive.

[mtngirl]

I fell in love with a particular stallion…a Friesian, when there were relatively few in the US. I didn’t want a full Friesian though, and leased a wonderful TB mare who was a proven broodmare. The resulting filly was everything I could have hoped for. She was literally “born broke” as my trainer coined it. Took absolutely everything in stride…show her something once and she had it. She got the best of both breeds…the wonderful mind and substance of the Friesian stallion I loved, with some refinement from the TB. Beautiful gaits. Born for dressage.

Total heart break when I lost her to colic from a rare birth defect at 19 months.

So, took the plunge again and with my trainer, this time bought a Hanoverian mare in foal to a young stallion. Mare had a crooked leg due to injury. Both had outstanding blood lines. Mare was steal of a deal. I had the choice of the resulting foal, or to rebreed to stallion of my choice, trainer would keep the mare afterwards. I’d loved the whole experience of working with the young horses. Saw this filly’s birth and was instantly smitten. She wasn’t quite as easy going as the other filly…but still a joy to work with.

Heartbreak again…lost her to colic at 11 months. Turned out that despite following deworming protocols to the letter, she was infested with large strongyles and two large tapeworms…despite being dewormed three weeks before with Ivermectrin Gold. My vet and everyone else was stunned (this was 7 yrs ago when resistance was just becoming known to the public).

I’d like the stallion so much I went back to the breeder and bought a half brother to the filly from the same foal crop. He’s now 7 and everything I could ask for. I have enjoyed the experience of raising a foal. Yes, it’s expensive. But I can honestly say that any problems are the result of me and not somebody else. And, since I have owned him since he was a yearling, I pretty much know his whole history.

[frugalannie]

As I write this, my 12th and final foal is due to hit the ground. “Perfect” due date was yesterday- maybe April Fools? In any event, I’m most definitely in Mare Stare mode. I have had all the foals (and two others) born at my home barn with me in attendance. While most went very well, I had one dystocia (which we handled successfully with the vet’s help) and one set of twins that survived and thrived. I have always bred mares that I loved in order to get another heart horse. Haven’t quite succeeded yet, but have produced some nice, useful horses.

Issues to consider:

1. Do you have the means to be able to handle all of the expenses associated with breeding?
2. Do you have a Plan A and Plan B for the good and the bad that can happen in a normal life and is exacerbated when there’s a baby on the way?
3. Do you have the temperament yourself to be patient, persevere if the going gets tough, stay calm when things are stressful, and make tough decisions if necessary?
4. Will you enjoy doing all the little things that will make a foal into a good equine citizen? Do you have the time to devote to this process?

If you can honestly say yes to the above and really want to do this, commit and enjoy. I love it, and I’m trying hard not to be an enabler!

[Cumano]

I have always been a passionate of both horses and genetics. As far back as I can remember, I was probably 12 or 13 yo, I would follow the breeding industry in europe, the stallion shows and the young horse shows. I was also a great fan of the sport. I had friends who bred champion dogs, cats, cattle, pigs, even reptiles. I just couldn’t get enough of discussing genetic, selection and breeding. I have been riding forever and have showed a little bit. When I could not show anymore, I took any job I could with horses where I could learn. I have groomed and have had the chance to follow the GP circuit in NA, and I went two summers in Europe to work in breeding farms. My dream, of course was breeding show jumping horses.

All along, I was dreaming of the day I could begin breeding horses. Our first broodmare was my then GF (now wife) show mare, a 1m40 jumper mare with great pedigree, from a very strong dame line. After a few years, we added a second mare. We shopped for a long time both here and in Europe to find the very special mare to bring our program to the upper level. We finally found the filly of our dream in France and imported her. We had a precize idea of the mare we wanted, we were shopping for that exceptional dame line with many international performers very up close. We couldn’t pay 200K for the mare so we were looking at fillies and yearlings. We rapidly had a reality check when we realized that even with a good budget, those fillies are very rarely for sale. We saw hundreds of fillies before finding the one, but it worth to be patient.

Now we breed between 2 and 3 foals a year. I see breeding as an art. I do not breed for profit or to produce a horse for ourself we couldn’t aford. I realy breed to put together an exceptionnal band of broodmares, and produce a horse I would be proud of. Our dream is to have horses jumping in the 5* events and in major championship. We however keep our focus on a good mind because we know those horses are rare and we must be able to produce good horses for amateur competitive riders. All money we get from our horses goes back into the breeding program. It may not make much sense economically as we paid a lot for our mares and we pay whatever we have to for the stallions we think are the best, but our goal is realy to produce one day that special horse.

[kashmere]

You guys are all great! Wonderful stories, and exactly the perspectives I was looking for It’s still a future decision for me - I need to see how this girl does in the show ring and how we really gel as a team.

My old mare was a real heart horse for me, but she did not have the kind of conformation I’d want to breed for. Her previous owners did not see things that way, and had bred her eight (eight!!!) times by the time she was ten, so even if she’d been a conformational dream, I’d promised her I wouldn’t put her through it again - though I’m not sure she would have been all that upset; she spent her dotage stealing every baby goat that was born on the farm.

If this mare continues to wiggle her way into my heart as she currently is, and she’s as talented as I suspect she might be… maybe a baby will be in our future. Stay tuned for approximately 7 thousand more threads and questions :lol:

[Manni01]

[QUOTE=kash![](ere;8601465]
You guys are all great! Wonderful stories, and exactly the perspectives I was looking for It’s still a future decision for me - I need to see how this girl does in the show ring and how we really gel as a team.

My old mare was a real heart horse for me, but she did not have the kind of conformation I’d want to breed for. Her previous owners did not see things that way, and had bred her eight (eight!!!) times by the time she was ten, so even if she’d been a conformational dream, I’d promised her I wouldn’t put her through it again - though I’m not sure she would have been all that upset; she spent her dotage stealing every baby goat that was born on the farm.

If this mare continues to wiggle her way into my heart as she currently is, and she’s as talented as I suspect she might be… maybe a baby will be in our future. Stay tuned for approximately 7 thousand more threads and questions :lol:[/QUOTE]

My personal opinion… not always is the horse with the best conformation the best producer… If your old mare had 8 foals you should really have a lot of information what she produced… Did you ever check how her babies turned out??? If her babies turned out great, I would probably rather breed her then a young mare you know nothing about…
by the way we just took a picture yesterday of one of my babies after 8 rides. It was amazing how much she looks like her mom.

mom (when I got her with 8 she was pregnant with her 5th foal…)
[IMG]http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad152/Gretaundlucky/PB262883_zps81b06adc.jpg)
her daughter yesterday
[IMG]http://i931.photobucket.com/albums/ad152/Gretaundlucky/IMG_3702_zpste0qlze0.jpg)

[kashmere]

Manni01 - your girls are both lovely!

As for my old mare - I did see her offspring. They were cute horses, but she did unfortunately pass on her less desirable traits. She was honestly successful on heart - not natural talent She has also since passed away, so a bit of a moot point!

New mare is also a proven broodmare - had two absolutely lovely babies with an APHA stallion. Not my particular type of horse - but she throws alllll her good stuff to her foals. When I bought her, her last baby (recently weaned) was available for sale as well, and it took a lot of willpower not to buy both

[Megaladon]

Keeping up the family tradition and passion for the breeds. Plus, I want to know everything that is going into the foal. This will sound like a funny comparison, but it’s kind of like growing and cooking /making my own food.

[silverbirch]

Non pro breeders - how did you decide to breed?

For many of the same reasons that people have posted here.

Almost 15 years ago, I had a mare that I adored. So much so that I did everything I could do to track down her previous foals (she was a racehorse). I made contacts with a race trainer who had one but then he stopped responding to me. I lost that beloved mare to colic.

My current mare is that little unassuming mare that just wiggled her way into my heart. Unlike my rather fancy bred TB mare, this little girl (I have been calling her that since she was 3 even though she is now 15) doesn’t have a glamorous background. Her dam was a QH and the father was a jumper from VA that by accident ended up in the same field with the dam. Owners would not disclose anything about the stallion and they passed the baby along (when it did come) as a BOGO with a trailer. Future owners couldn’t do anything with this non western pleasure horse so they used her for overnight trail rides as a 3 year old for their kids.

She has everything I love in a horse, kind, willing, forgiving, quiet with lovely confirmation, solid gaits and a cute jump. I would not mind having an exact carbon copy of her.

I had wanted to breed her when she was around 6-8 years old but didn’t have that kind of money. Life changes and I had the finances, resources, time, and circumstances with an amazing stallion worked out well.

Baby is a forever baby (I don’t sell horses) and even if baby doesn’t turn out like mom will always have a home and be provided for. I didn’t want to have that same kind of heartbreak I had with my first mare.

I don’t think I can do this again - it is scary for me and definitely not for the faint of heart. I worry about labor and delivery (she will be at the vets starting at day 326 (if not sooner based on how she progresses), but in general the risks seem far scarier to me as we get closer. If I were to ever do it again, I would prefer to do an embryo transfer and lets be real I don’t think my little mare is that “special” to warrant that expense (granted in my eyes she is worth a million bucks).