non-traditional breeds at the upper levels

[QUOTE=Gestalt;7938322]
I think ASB’s are a breed that could do well for ammy’s. My heart is owned by tb’s and standies but I readily admit my current horse is very easy to get along with. (he’s asb)[/QUOTE]

Since starting the job I currently have, I have fallen in LOVE with ASBs. Some can be batsh*t, but its typically in the breeding. If you find one that didn’t make it as a high $$ show horse, they are a little bit more grounded, and make great partners for just about anybody. Their biggest struggle is their conformation, which makes it really hard for them to lift those 800 mile long backs. The brains and heart are all there.

[QUOTE=vineyridge;7937954]
Don’t forget Teddy O’Connor, who although a TB x, had some arab and shetland pony.

I also seem to remember that John Williams’ Sloopy had some draft in him.

AAs are a traditional eventing horse.[/QUOTE]

As mentioned before, Sloopy is all TB. It’s Carrick that has some draft in him via his sire Cozy Commander. Commander’s son Cozymyn also had a bit of draft in him and has produced a number of upper level horses (including mine).

There have also been a number of Australian Stock Horses (not a breed well known on this continent) who have reached top levels.

[QUOTE=weixiao;7937942]
There was a horse that was blogged about on EN that did at least the 3* level and maybe the 4* level (blanking on the story right now) that was some sort of crazy mix of a bunch of things that I think included draft, maybe Arab, and maybe some sort of pony breed?

Snooze Alarm and Tamarillo are both Anglo Arabians if I remember correctly. And I think there was a giant footed gelding at Badders last year that might have been a draft cross? I also recently read about a Cleveland Bay who was at the highest levels on EN or Horse and Hound, although it wasn’t a recent competitor.

Of course there is Forest Nymph too.[/QUOTE]

Anglo-arabians may not be “typical” eventing breed, but I think the combination, although on the small side, would tend to provide all the traits of a good eventer

Andrew Nicholson’s Quimbo is a Spanish-bred with very little blood, as I understand. Also as I understand, he has a working agreement with the breeder and is bringing on more of the same or similar bloodlines.

[QUOTE=fooler;7940093]
Andrew Nicholson’s Quimbo is a Spanish-bred with very little blood, as I understand. Also as I understand, he has a working agreement with the breeder and is bringing on more of the same or similar bloodlines.[/QUOTE]
Bit of a thread derail here, but:

Would love to know a bit more about the dam side of his breeding. I can’t find a complete pedigree for him anywhere. His sire is Lacros, who is a Landgraf I stallion so there is a lot of HOL and HANN in his breeding. Hanoverian and SF in his dam’s sire line as well, so lots of traditional warmblood breeding. My understanding is that the CDE registry relied heavily on other european warmblood and TB lines, but I honestly don’t know very much about it. Horse telex has him listed at 25% blood, I think, but I suspect it might be a bit higher than that in actuality. That said, Rolex does seem to have been a bit of a fluke and his subsequent 4* showings have not been as impressive, but he is still a relatively young horse so maybe next year will be more consistent.

Quimbo’s sire is a very traditional, very well regarded line for show jumping horses, as is his dam-sire’s line. So it wouldn’t surprise me that they are looking for more horses of similar breeding because they are bred to jump. No doubt Quimbo is an excellent jumper, but I think he is evidence that blood is necessary. Just my $0.02 and musings!

[End derail]

Another memorial, but here was a Morgan!:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/dragonfire-kublakhan-my-time-legend

Jen McFall’s Khubla Khan was a morgan or morgan sporthorse. And he went pretty high before she retired him. Jessica Heideman’s 4* horse French Twist(I think that was his name, we just called him Frenchy) was a Canadian Warmblood. And what about Erin Go Bragh, he was a Connemara stallion.

[QUOTE=weixiao;7940114]
Bit of a thread derail here, but:

Would love to know a bit more about the dam side of his breeding. I can’t find a complete pedigree for him anywhere. His sire is Lacros, who is a Landgraf I stallion so there is a lot of HOL and HANN in his breeding. Hanoverian and SF in his dam’s sire line as well, so lots of traditional warmblood breeding. My understanding is that the CDE registry relied heavily on other european warmblood and TB lines, but I honestly don’t know very much about it. Horse telex has him listed at 25% blood, I think, but I suspect it might be a bit higher than that in actuality. That said, Rolex does seem to have been a bit of a fluke and his subsequent 4* showings have not been as impressive, but he is still a relatively young horse so maybe next year will be more consistent.

Quimbo’s sire is a very traditional, very well regarded line for show jumping horses, as is his dam-sire’s line. So it wouldn’t surprise me that they are looking for more horses of similar breeding because they are bred to jump. No doubt Quimbo is an excellent jumper, but I think he is evidence that blood is necessary. Just my $0.02 and musings!

[End derail]

Another memorial, but here was a Morgan!:
http://www.chronofhorse.com/article/dragonfire-kublakhan-my-time-legend[/QUOTE]

Agree with what you state about Quimbo as that is all I remember ever reading about him.
Also agree that even with the short format, a greater percentage of blood is needed to be successful long term.

[QUOTE=Superminion;7938841]
Since starting the job I currently have, I have fallen in LOVE with ASBs. Some can be batsh*t, but its typically in the breeding. If you find one that didn’t make it as a high $$ show horse, they are a little bit more grounded, and make great partners for just about anybody. Their biggest struggle is their conformation, which makes it really hard for them to lift those 800 mile long backs. The brains and heart are all there.[/QUOTE]

I think there are more and more ASBs quietly making their way into eventing. Not all of them are easily identifyable as such–those that are a little less typey can end up looking like some kind of a WB/WBX.

Agree that the brains and hearts are fantastic–that’s why I love the breed.

It will be interesting to see if a few more start climbing the levels.

[QUOTE=fooler;7940093]
Andrew Nicholson’s Quimbo is a Spanish-bred with very little blood, as I understand. Also as I understand, he has a working agreement with the breeder and is bringing on more of the same or similar bloodlines.[/QUOTE]

There was an article on him…he may be Spanish bred in that he was born in Spain…but it is all WB breeding (traditional sport horse type). Just his breeder’s location is unusual but not the lines they are using.

His dam line is a bit unknown (just dam of dam) but likely more WB or TB lines.

http://sporthorse-data.com/d?d=Quimbo&sex=&color=&dog_breed=any&birthyear=&birthland=

If we’re including connemaras, we can count Ardceltic Art who competed through the 2* with his amateur owner. Sue Moessners Epic Satin went to the 2* level also. She was a TB/Clyde cross (and the dam of the lovely stallion Satin Art).

Canadian Kelly Plitz rode the AQHA mare Dialadream to the 4* level.

Akhal-Tekes, for their extremely limited numbers in the US, have done very well in eventing. The purebred stallion Sengar competed long-format 3-day with Craig Thompson and was long-listed for Atlanta in 96 before being injured. Purebreds Kandar ( Advanced ) and Senova ( Intermediate ) also were successful. Teke crosses have also competed through 4*, including Zang, who did Rolex more than once with Karen Yates of Alabama.

[QUOTE=earsup;7940819]
I think there are more and more ASBs quietly making their way into eventing. Not all of them are easily identifyable as such–those that are a little less typey can end up looking like some kind of a WB/WBX.

Agree that the brains and hearts are fantastic–that’s why I love the breed.

It will be interesting to see if a few more start climbing the levels.[/QUOTE]

Do ASB’s have gait problems? I’m not sure if they are one of the racking breeds or not…or does racking have to be taught and they naturally have walk, trot, and canter?

[QUOTE=overhorsed;7944234]
Akhal-Tekes, for their extremely limited numbers in the US, have done very well in eventing. The purebred stallion Sengar competed long-format 3-day with Craig Thompson and was long-listed for Atlanta in 96 before being injured. Purebreds Kandar ( Advanced ) and Senova ( Intermediate ) also were successful. Teke crosses have also competed through 4*, including Zang, who did Rolex more than once with Karen Yates of Alabama.[/QUOTE]

I want a Teke SO badly. Overall, I’ve been very unimpressed by what I’ve seen in the US but some of the ones I’ve seen in the Ukraine/Russia have been very impressive. If I could just win the lotto I would love to experiment with them for a modern event horse.

One of the Appaloosas at Advanced was Naughty By Nature, who was up in Canada. I can’t think of his rider’s name, but I remember that he was a spunky little guy! I can’t remember if he ever did Rolex but he did a bunch of top level Canadian events.

There was also a Gypsy Vanner cross at Badminton or Burleigh one year. That was pretty neat to see.

[QUOTE=ravenclaw;7944277]
Do ASB’s have gait problems? I’m not sure if they are one of the racking breeds or not…or does racking have to be taught and they naturally have walk, trot, and canter?[/QUOTE]

They’re not “gaited” per se the way a Foxtrotter or walking horse is - they do have a true WTC, but it gets added to for the 5-gaited ASBs. I looked at a few when I was shopping, and really loved them. The show ring wash-outs I looked at tended to have more “forward” than “up” to their trot, which is good for a sporthorse (to state the obvious :lol:). The big key is finding one strong enough through the back… they’re hard to put muscles on, but it can be done.

No one mentioned Jester’s Quest - Gemma Tattersall’s cute little Lusitano gelding that came 32nd at Badminton 07’…he was too cool!

I’m not going to be able to contribute much to the original question. Just wanted to say that I’m so glad to see Saddlebreds being mentioned here. Obviously I’m biased since I’m a fancier of them, but I honestly feel like they are one of the best kept secrets of the horse world – but it’s a secret that shouldn’t be kept any longer! They can do a lot of things well, and Eventing is one of them!

I sent my young girl to a pro Eventing trainer this past Summer for 90 days. She was very lightly broke and green as grass, but everyone loved her! The trainer couldn’t say enough about her intelligence, bravery, and willingness to work. And the trainer felt she was so ammy-friendly (at barely 4 years old) that she had kids riding her around. I believe that most Saddlebreds are extremely ammy-friendly animals – you just have to look for them away from the high-end saddleseat barns (these places usually house the high-octane version ASBs who require an educated, quiet rider).

[QUOTE=Superminion;7938841]
Since starting the job I currently have, I have fallen in LOVE with ASBs. Some can be batsh*t, but its typically in the breeding. If you find one that didn’t make it as a high $$ show horse, they are a little bit more grounded, and make great partners for just about anybody. Their biggest struggle is their conformation, which makes it really hard for them to lift those 800 mile long backs. The brains and heart are all there.[/QUOTE]

Long backs can be found quite a bit in ASBs, but only certain lines carry them. Other lines are well-built and compact. Have a look at my young mare, for example. She is 15.2 hands and wears a 69" blanket. She’s a nice, compact little lady.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y67/jlk37/My%20Herd/3507505_16225046_hd_zps0394f622.jpg

You will find the rare Saddlebred that naturally gaits, but the vast majority of them are born with WTC only.

…Sorry, I just had to gush! Carry on!

[QUOTE=rascalpony;7944446]
One of the Appaloosas at Advanced was Naughty By Nature, who was up in Canada. I can’t think of his rider’s name, but I remember that he was a spunky little guy! I can’t remember if he ever did Rolex but he did a bunch of top level Canadian events.

There was also a Gypsy Vanner cross at Badminton or Burleigh one year. That was pretty neat to see.[/QUOTE]

Naughty By Nature’s rider/owner was Jessica Ruppel - barn name is Chance. I got to ride him a few times. Really good boy!

[QUOTE=weixiao;7944405]
I want a Teke SO badly. Overall, I’ve been very unimpressed by what I’ve seen in the US but some of the ones I’ve seen in the Ukraine/Russia have been very impressive. If I could just win the lotto I would love to experiment with them for a modern event horse.[/QUOTE]

Ask and you shall receive;)…maybe.

At least if you are looking for a performance horse.

As my user name suggests, I love Akhal Tekes. I stood a homebred cremello stallion of my own, Kinor, for several years till a horrid pasture accident took him from me. Most of the mares he covered were Arabs for the endurance market.

His dam, Karma although not considered PB by the American registry (long story; it is possible (never proven) she is something like 10% TB), also gave me a filly who I retained. She is a 15.2hh liver chestnut with loads of chrome. Her sire is a PB, so she is (genetically) something like 88% Teke…enough to genetically be the same as a PB.

I kept her because I feared she would go to the wrong hands. Like many Tekes she is SUPER sensitive and SUPER athletic. Not a mean bone in her body, so is very sweet and easy to handle. Never a “bad” girl and actually pretty ok in strange situations, but I’ve seen enough of her pasture antics to know that, as a green horse, if she was to “lose it” under saddle, the rider would have to be very, very good or she would dump 'em. The first time I put an English saddle on her she bucked so hard she bucked the blanket out from under the saddle!! And that girth was not loose. I had her advertised for 2 years and never found the right person who had the mix of desire for the breed AND the skills to do right by her. So she stayed.

I also kept her because when I lost Kinor, and then his dam Karma at age 26, I still wanted a Teke around :o. I’ve since switched my program to WBs for dressage and I’ve done very well. Had a bunch of foals win their inspections, finish in the Top 10 nationally, win in hand…and now have a young WB being shown by a dressage pro.

But not really been in the Teke scene in years.

Last few years, as the horse market has gotten strong, I’ve been looking at Heart (the Teke mare) and think she should be bred… I feel she is a quality horse for her breed: she has a HUGE canter, a showy trot (could use abit more collection naturally, but tons of freedom in the shoulder). I confess I’ve never jumped her, but I honestly have never met a Teke who couldn’t jump. Her brother Kinor was a fantastic jumper the few times we tried it and her dam Karma is full or half sibling to all the Teke you mentioned in your post.

In addition Karma actually did one endurance ride when she was 11 yrs of age…just one…and they started her off with a 75 miler. Despite bucking off her Jr. Rider at the start and having to be caught up and returned to start again, Karma STILL finished in the Top 10!

So these are athletes. NOT horses for people who aren’t athletes themselves or for people who are timid or unsure. I have to stress…these horses aren’t mean or crazy…they are just sensitive and UBER athletic. When a horse with those qualities has a bit of a fit (which they might some day), you have to be able to match their “fit” ability with your riding ability…:lol:

I would have killed for a horse like Kinor or Karma or Heart when I was 20-35yrs old…alas they came to me as an old, crippled woman…still, I can see their potential as superior sporthorses.

So in 2015 I am going to finally breed Heart…NOT to another Teke because (honestly), the market is not that strong for them and generally I need to sell what I breed.

But there is a stunning WB stallion who has come into the area: his sire is a very nice son of DeNiro who has/is been successful at FEI dressage (I-1 or GP). His dam is a full siter to Verdades, Laura Graves WEG performer.

The stallion himself is lovely – about 16.1-16.2hh, black with some white socks I think. Nice boy with a VERY active trot, round canter, marching walk.

The resulting foal will be o/o the box breeding, but I believe it will be an extremely talented athlete for dressage and eventing at low-med. levels. Because I breed to sell and I realize this breeding will be considered non-trad, I hope to keep the price realistic.

If that foal turns out well, I will look around for an eventing stallion to use, since I think that is a sport that suits Tekes well.

I don’t consider this to be advertising, since the foal is not even conceived yet,:yes: but I’m hoping there are enough riders out there who are willing to purchase a horse for it’s future ability and affordability.

And I always love seeing any of my “babies” go into serious competition.

As far as this thread and the non-trad breeding…well, I’m old enough to remember when have abit of draft blood in your eventer was not odd at all; it was pretty common, actually.

Now we get our “cold” blood from WBs…the blood that supplies the bone, the foot, the calmer mind, etc. Just a more refined, probably more consistent producer that drafts, since they were never actually bred to event (talking about draft breeds here…NOT RID).