Normal vs Unacceptable Prep to Pass the Jog

[luckycricket123]

I’m not an FEI competitor, nor do I ever intend to be! So I am asking only as a curious fan. When grooms are working through the night to “help their horses pass the jog,” what exactly are they doing?

Icing? Magnawave? Massage? Hand walking?

I had always assumed any surpass/banamine/bute etc would be off the table, but I also know at USDF shows, you’re allowed to show with small amounts of drug in their system (as long as the last dose was at least 12 hours away IIRC), so when I had my old man on equioxx and we were shipping into show, he was actually able to maintain his regular dosing schedule, per my vet.

Are event horses allowed any NSAIDs (at either FEI or national level)? Do they drug test after the jog?

What is allowed and what’s not? And what types of things are in the grey area for you? This grey area question arises from the comments in the Kentucky thread discussing jazzing the horses up before they jog to mask any lameness.

[luckycricket123]

I actually did find part of my answer on Google, assuming the rules haven’t changed and I’m not misunderstanding: https://brandonequine.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/medication-detection-times-in-the-equine-athlete-ED.pdf

So I suppose you can pass the jog at a USEF competition using NSAIDs and not at an FEI.

Not to derail my own thread, but some of the drug withdrawal times are a real bummer for FEI! I’ve had a horse with hives or minor bouts of cellulitis that I’ve treated with banamine (and other appropriate RX per my vet) without necessarily taking more than a day off riding and if that happened too close to a big event, you’d still have to scratch! I can imagine why FEI riders might want to bubble wrap their horses (although don’t we all!)

[Scribbler]

@luckycricket123

I’m not an FEI competitor, nor do I ever intend to be! So I am asking only as a curious fan. When grooms are working through the night to “help their horses pass the jog,” what exactly are they doing?

Icing? Magnawave? Massage? Hand walking?

I had always assumed any surpass/banamine/bute etc would be off the table, but I also know at USDF shows, you’re allowed to show with small amounts of drug in their system (as long as the last dose was at least 12 hours away IIRC), so when I had my old man on equioxx and we were shipping into show, he was actually able to maintain his regular dosing schedule, per my vet.

Are event horses allowed any NSAIDs (at either FEI or national level)? Do they drug test after the jog?

What is allowed and what’s not? And what types of things are in the grey area for you? This grey area question arises from the comments in the Kentucky thread discussing jazzing the horses up before they jog to mask any lameness.

I assume there are clear rules on the organization web site. As far as grey areas with rules there aren’t. There may be things other folks do that are legal, that I don’t. But it’s not a grey area if its legal. It’s a personal choice. I’m not an eventer but just speaking about horse competition generally.

[omare]

At least at FEI level I thought at some point grooms and staff /riders are not allowed in the stable area after a certain time at night unless you have a Team vet/ emergency?

(For example, I thought Andrew Nicholson was quite angry when team vet was running fluid/hydrating his horse overnight and the vet allegedly left the horse unattended and it was not like anyone esle in the barn was allowed in the barn area so it was up to the vet to be there…or something like that…)

I am sure lots of icing, but again I thought everyone has to be out of the barn area by a certain time to prevent shennigans.

[leighbo009]

I think I agree with that. I saw something from Kentucky asking grooms what time they left and what time they arrived, so I assume that’s because the barns are closed during those times?

[Mack_the_Knife]

Barns at 4*long and above are secured, meaning you have to show credentials in order to gain admittance. Once the barns are closed horses must remain within the confines of the fencing. You can come into the barn, with proper credentials, but must sign in and be accompanied by an FEI steward who observes what you are doing. There is security and an overnight steward at these events. Allowed treatments are clearly spelled out in the vet regs, drugs clearly spelled out in the FEI Clean Sport App. There is also a cut off point for treatment with regard to competition the following day.

[alyssaequestrian]

They do “close” the barns at a certain time, but obviously if there is an emergency or otherwise health concerns you are allowed in. To be honest, your horse is either sound for the jog the next morning or its not. While a bit of ice absolutely helps and hand walking/riding keeps them from being stiff, there’s not really much magic you can do to fix it if “passing the jog” might be questionable.

The only real sort of situation I can think of where you are desperate to make the horse sound is if they have a heel grab or something unusual for them. But even so, they either are fine or they aren’t. No one is trying to hide anything. The only real thing you can do for the jog that could make them “different” is some horses are better and more even with their heads down as opposed to long and strung out, same effect as when riding!

[Marigold]

@luckycricket123

So I am asking only as a curious fan. When grooms are working through the night to “help their horses pass the jog,” what exactly are they doing?

Have you ever gone to the gym and really felt it the next day? The grooms are doing everything (non-drug) that you would want to comfortably move around the next day. So that’s icing, alternative therapies (massage, sometimes acupuncture, etc), low-impact movement (handwalking, usually), liniment, poulticing, bandaging/wrapping, hydration (running fluids), etc. Assuming ethical actors, which I would say is very nearly or absolutely everyone, no one is trying to mask an injury, but they are recognizing that five star cross country is a massive physical effort and they are doing all they can to minimize the normal aftereffects of that effort.

Show jumping is a phase where marginal gains make a big difference, so anything you can do to ensure the horse feels loose and energetic and not like they went to the gym and did a hard workout the day before will be done - that extra inch of height over the fences can mean everything.

[Willesdon]

Eventing is such a tough, even unforgiving sport, that to run a horse that is NQR risks even greater injury or worse. Medication to mask a problem is foolish. There is always another day, no matter how gut wrenching a decision to pull out of a competition may be.

Sarah Clark sold two horses and travelled from South Australia to ride in the two Big Bs and so fulfill a lifelong dream. She finished Burghley last year with a respectable score but had to pull out of Badminton this year immediately before the first trot up because her horse came out of its stable “not quite right”. The highest highs and lowest lows.

[beowulf]

I have a somewhat spin-off question – I’m assuming all FEI horses must be stalled overnight? Just curious what the folks who keep their horses out 24/7 do. I know there are a handful of them at that level.

[Jealoushe]

I just listened to Bubby Uptons groom talk about this on the Eventing podcast. She said she hand walks and grazes Cola as much as possible because he’s used to being turned out all night. She said she keeps him on a lunge line and takes him way out on the grass to graze just like he’s at home.

I know at Landrover they can get pens now.

Are there stewards watching the area by the jogs where they prep the horses?

[luckycricket123]

Thank you! This is the info I was looking for.

Just to clarify, I’m certainly not trying to accuse anyone of trying to take an unsound horse onto the final phase. I’m just curious what everyone does to help their horses without NSAIDs/turnout/days off. It’s just beyond the scope of what I personally have had to do in competition.

[Willesdon]

Another thing to remember is that the Grooms at an FEI competition have only one or two horses to do rather than the usual stableful. There is plenty of time to lavish tender loving care on each horse over several days.

[beowulf]

Ohh very interesting! I understand pens and turnout are probably much harder security wise, and not always feasible on many grounds for several reasons - but if I was competing a horse at that level the last thing I would want is for them to be standing still all night!!

[Willesdon]

@Jealoushe There are swarms of people with accreditation: officials; grooms; competitors; owners; vets, all over the start of the trot-up because everyone is interested. The stables are a closed area with limited and controlled access. The people kept out of the way is the general public. At Badminton, for the first inspection the crowd was about seven deep along the trot up strip.

[Janet]

@beowulf

I have a somewhat spin-off question – I’m assuming all FEI horses must be stalled overnight? Just curious what the folks who keep their horses out 24/7 do. I know there are a handful of them at that level.

My sister’s horse, Sportscar, was one.

LOTS of handwalking and grazing.

[alyssaequestrian]

Horses are not allowed to stay overnight in the pens at the KHP. Mostly a safety reason.

When you are a groom at a big competition like a 4* or 5*, truthfully one of the most difficult things is giving the horse some “alone time”!

We do try to take them out to graze as often as possible. Their riders usually like to take them out to stretch their legs in addition to whatever phase they are doing that day. My rule is each horse grazes a minimum of 1 hour (where they almost get to drag me around like they were in a field at home) and a minimum of 30 minutes of hand walking. When you have just one, you can do all of these a little bit longer, but they do enjoy being not bothered!

[fordtraktor]

I see there are several 5* grooms on these threads…any chance the collective you would do an AMA (except outing yourself/your riders unless you wish) about the behind the scenes? I was a GP showjumping groom, but I imagine it is a lot different!

[OverandOnward]

So I may not have this right, but I thought that eventing 5*'s closed the barns to everyone from 10 pm to 5 am. Grooms and all. Horses supervised all night by an official, vet on hand.

Is that not correct? Credentialed grooms can be there and can manage the horses between 10 pm and 5 am?

[alyssaequestrian]

You are correct, they are closed. However, I can only imagine they would let grooms in for emergency or other health concerns (if one had been colicy or tying up and probably withdrawn anyway). Lucky for me, I’ve never had to test that.

I have groomed at 3 kentuckys for 2 different riders and plenty of times at fair hill and other big events, I would do am AMA!