NOT a dressage horse?

Finally going to post here because maybe some COTHers have experience with this type.

Firstly, I’m not a pro. I’m about as far on the other end of the spectrum as one can get without being called a beginner. I’ve had the good fortune of starting half a dozen or so greenies, under the guidance of my trainer, who have gone on to compete and be solid citizens. I’ll admit they were all very easy, straight forward babies who enjoyed their jobs.

Enter my new youngster. My ISO ad read “seeking next forever horse, 2-4 year old to be low level dressage prospect, trail partner and hacking buddy.”

Even my dressage horses spend most of their rides schooling in the field or woods and just pop in the ring once a week or so to ride a test if a show is coming up (see profile pic, you get the idea.) I wanted a brave, kind, fun partner. Sooo after the PPE I bought a “fearless” unstarted three year old friesian cross who checked all the boxes, had phenomenal gaits and a brain to match.

Training went similar to how my other youngsters have gone, ground work in the round pen, free lunging progresses to lunging to long lines and finally to riding with a ground person. Within thirty days we were there. BUT I soon found that being fearless is a double edged sword because the lunge whip meant very little to him. The lunge whip with a plastic bag at the end also doesn’t mean much. I’d get the reaction, eventually, but it took me running after him with a plastic bag like a lunatic to elicit the response a typical
horse would get from flicking a whip in their direction.

Ok, that’s different… but maybe he needs a different approach. After basic steering and unenthusiastic but acceptable gear shifting was installed under saddle in the arena we took to riding with another horse in the field, not ponying but tagged along and following their lead, or leading with them following when he felt confident enough (surprisingly quickly given how green he is.) Tada! Baby has a go button. Understandable, I get it. The sandbox is boring. I’ve never met a neon green coming four year old who is so bold on the trail and so unimpressed with the arena, but if nothing else I think I have a great trail horse in the making… with great gaits… which may or may not be relevant since he seems to utterly despise the arena.
He’s thoroughly convinced riding in the same 20 x 60 m rectangle is unbelievably pointless and boring. Great gaits quickly morph to something akin to a western jog and his perked ears from the trail are immediately replaced with the equine version of RBF. Traditional assertive “go forward aids” in the arena get the tiniest response and so far I’ve been calling that a win and exiting the arena after a few reluctant but compliant transitions and heading to the woods or field to school. Leave the arena and it’s a totally different horse with a zest for life and the biggest ground covering gaits on the farm.

…So at thirty (forty?) rides under saddle, nearly all of them have been in the pasture or trail (read dirt roads connecting one farm to the next and so on.)
Off property he’s braver with another horse but happy to hack in the woods and field on the thirty acre farm alone. Wades in the pond, marches up to the ducks and chickens, wants to make friends with the neighbors cows. Not a ton of cantering yet, but some. I’ve never met a horse like this, that at such a young age is so decidedly against the sandbox. Is this just a different kind of baby quirk that he might outgrow or become more “trainable” with time and patience?

I get this sneaking feeling that I’m not really training him, he’s training me how he wants to be ridden. We popped back in the arena tonight with his trusty trail partner, did just a bit of unimpressed baby trot then headed out to the dirt roads where he bravely left his bud in the dust to do some long trotting, stopped to rendezvous with bud on our way back then happily headed off again at a brisk trot to finish our rounds and headed home. I’m sort of dumb founded. Do we just keep going this route and see where it takes us? He’s such an odd duck.

We’re able to ride circles around trees in the field and zig and zag through the woods but it’s a far cry from anything that suggests a future in dressage. It’s not a deal breaker if we don’t ever canter down centerline but surely a lesson in the arena down the road isn’t too much to ask for?

At this point I feel like that would be obtainable if trainer stood in the middle of the dressage arena with a lunge whip (and maybe a plastic bag too 😬) with ideally another horse motoring around to add interest. I suppose I’m having trouble wrapping my head around this scenario because it’s just so backwards from every other horse I’ve encountered. It could definitely be worse, he’s not really being naughty or trying to get me off of him, just telling everyone loud and clear what he prefers.

I should add, he hasn’t pulled any nonsense. No buck no bolt (ha) or rear. The most he ever did was get a little hoppy when I asked for a canter transition from a not quite balanced enough trot in the woods. Taught me rather quickly to make sure our sh*t was together before putting the aid on and then all was well. He just shuts down in the arena and forward motion is a chore… for both of us. On the trail (field) forward is off voice command or just thinking “go ahead.” Has anyone dealt with this before? Thoughts?

I’d love to send him to a pro for 30/60 days, to see what kind of work ethic they can coax out of him in the arena, but for now my bank account is still recovering from the purchase, the ppe, the saddle etc… so it’s at least a few months off. My trainer (also my boss, I’m a ft farm hand/groom where my horses live) is retired from riding other’s horses, but she coaches and is the rider of the seasoned horse he rides out with several times a week. Her take is, slow and steady wins the race and keep doing what we’re doing, but I feel like a pro could absolutely move things along and plan to send him that way as soon as I can scrounge up the pennies for it. In the meantime, I’d love to hear about others experiences and suggestions for such a non reactive, adventurous horse.

Trainer is headed to a show with another student this week and we’ll have a few days of solo rides in the field and woods (and arena) to play around and see what we can accomplish just between both of us. Our most recent rides without a buddy have been transitions steering (“we’re turning left at that tree, trotting over that log then circling back,”) and maintaining steady rhythm.

Just wondering what others’ experiences have been with this type, particularly at such a young age, what approaches worked best for them and how they ultimately progressed.

To his credit, I wouldn’t have dreamed of taking my other babies out on the trails or cantering through the woods this soon, but I also never had any that were so obviously unimpressed with the sandbox.
thanks for reading, thoughts appreciated :slight_smile:

He sounds like fun! I would suggest you ride him forward on the trails, and school everything you can on trails or in fields.

Then pop into the arena for 5 minutes in the middle of a good trail ride.

I don’t think horses “get bored” of short stints in the arena. I do think they can find arena work very difficult when they are green because it involves bend and balance they haven’t yet got

Friesians are wonderful for their gaits and impulsion. But they are not naturally balanced or bendy or catty horses. Thus despite having a baroque look, they are the opposite of say an Andalusian. Friesians are built to go in a straight line and look amazing doing it.

So he may just hate how off balance he feels in the arena and not be confident in moving out on a circle or corner. I would take advantage of the trail enthusiasm and try to school lateral movement and bend in open spaces.

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Check out this blog for inspiration: https://aenterspooking.blogspot.com/
She is a young pro but her current horse is a half-fresian now 9 year old that she’s been bringing along, and he sounds similar to yours. They are currently showing 3rd level dressage, but she also does a lot of trail rides and obstacles which the horse loves! And she is very honest about the struggles that they have had.

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Everything Scribbler said. I’ve trained quite a few Friesians and this is quite typical. He isn’t bored, he’s not ready to do the work in the arena. You can do all the training you need outside. So keep doing your circles around trees, your encouraging forward on the trails, your lateral work in the field. As he gains strength and balance, he will not find the arena work so hard and he’ll come around.

Friesians are also super smart. You are right that he thinks he’s training you. That’s OK. Use it to your advantage and reward him for being such a smarty!

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Sounds like he really needs the “go” button installed. It’s not there yet. I would do thousands of transitions, walk to trot and like, kick kick kick or a good smack after the first ask to really move forward. Then ask again and again until he moves off your leg aid the way he should. It’s just about being really clear that he has to move forward forward forward when you ask. And yes I mean literally a thousand transitions.

I also suggest checking saddle fit. I have seen a few TBs who don’t want to move forward because of this. New saddle and all of a sudden they are fine. Outside the excitement and scenery might take away the discomfort of the saddle in his mind and thus why hes different out there.

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Are you certain he is sound - of body, and of limb? How is his respiratory rate, his heart?

I had a very similar experience this spring. Last fall I lightly started my filly and she was very sassy the entire time. Definitely a pro’s horse. W/T/C on the lunge + a few rides under tack before she was put away for the winter.

This spring I sent her off to a professional for 30 days. I was surprised to hear from the pro she was quiet and amateur friendly, because she was a handful for me when I started her in the fall. She was sound, so I didn’t pull her out of the program. Trainer praised her as one of the quietest horses she’s worked with to the point of being too quiet. That was a compliment but she is sired by a stallion who is not known to be quiet…

Once her 30 days was over I brought her home and continued working her and found her unenergetic and just lazy in the ring. I had the vet out that week as it didn’t seem right despite my pro promising me she was fi. Turns out she had been battling a low grade chronic respiratory infection… that she probably got when she first went to the professional’s. She never had a temp but vet did a few cultures and scrapes after she had some discharge out of her nostril. The vet prescribed a month of antibiotics and time off.

She’s back to her good old feisty self. She just tried to buck me off last week because a leaf landed on her butt. :lol:

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Are you talking about my 3 year old fjord??

Seriously haha, very similar experiences from what it sounds like. We’ve had a lot of success doing lessons with a dressage trainer in the ring (45 mins max of “work” every couple weeks) and then taking the concepts to the trails, then back to the arena for maybe one or two 15-20 min sessions per week. Balance is our main focus right now and is most definitely the source of our struggles which is to be expected, esp with a little freight train :lol:

We were really struggling with getting balance at the canter in the arena. Getting any canter ask was an ugly running at the trot into the canter mess, sometimes with a little hop that I have since attributed to balance issues vs being a jerk issues. On the trail, in a straight line, he knows exactly what I want. I started asking for more canter transitions with a verbal cue and slightly exaggerated physical cue so there should be no confusion on what the ask is for and did that more over the last couple weeks. Last night actually, we had an excellent arena session…he very much knew my asks and I found asking him from the walk gets a much better overall response which is fine by me. He will trot for maybe two strides and then pick his canter up…usually on the correct lead as well. I can feel him trying to figure out what the deal with the corners is, but our work at the walk and trot is helping him figure that out too. Overall, I think keeping our training sessions very short is what is really helping a lot. Too much and he’s over it all.

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Expecting horses to go well in a small area where they’re off balance and constrained… while being green… no bueno.
Keep schooling outside of the ring, use the trees to circle, enjoy the fact he’s sane and steady… when he’s about 5-6 I’ll bet you after all that time, he will be able to maintain balance etc much better.
There’s no reason to rush or send off to a pro to “make it happen quicker”. He will likely just get body sore and mentally unhappy.
Just keep on keeping on outside of the ring and think of the long game, not the short one.

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IMHO, there is a big difference between working a youngster in the small ring before their balance is ready to handle it, and walking around the ring and expecting the horse to trot off when you put your leg on. The first can wait, the second really shouldn’t. I’d much rather install the go button right from the beginning. If you put your leg on, he must go.

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I did make my mare rather ring sour by pushing too much in the ring when she was green.

I had/have a non-motivated 3 year old WB - I’d be lunging him sounding like a crazy person clucking and kissing and running after him. My trainer had to re-train me - I quietly say trot and if he doesn’t go, it’s a big deal and I touch him (or smack sometimes) with the lash of the lunge whip.

For about 2 weeks, I had to get off several times a ride and re-install forward on the lunge line. I also hardly did any walking during the ride until the end - if I let him walk too much, he’d forget about going forward. Now that we understand the leg aids a bit better, I try to make sure I take my legs off and don’t nag him. If he’s not forward enough, it’s a quick leg aid and then back up with voice and crop.

I’d try warming up outside doing a little bit of very forward trot, then trotting into the arena and motoring around for a few minutes. If he backs off, really get after him until there’s a big forward reaction and then remove all pressure.

Also, what kind of footing do you have - if sand, it may just be a little abrasive on bare hooves and make him tentative and balky.

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Although I agree with sticking to trails for now, one thing I have learned from working with draft types, is that you ask nicely, and then you have to immediately escalate to “do it now!”. If you escalate aids slowly, they learn very quickly to be dull. (its the “staying one step ahead of the wolf” mindset of draft types, vs the “escape the cheetah” mindset of hotter bred horses).

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