Not another bit thread (kinda)

[phoenixrises]

I will try to give as much info as I can.

Horse had colic surgery in Sep. (not sure this is actually important but I’m sharing it). Start bringing back in mid Nov. Notice that horse tilts head, and after riding for a while ,starts putting his head to his chest and like biting hit chest, or maybe just rubbing his face on his shoulder, honestly it’s weird and after 25+ years in horses I’ve never seen it before? Will do this at trot, canter, walk. Have vet out to take a look at teeth. Look great. Problem still ensues. (note this did not exist before colic surgery, though he face was always soooo itchy after riding and he needed you to itch his ears immediately).

Trainer is like I do not want this to become a habit. Try the stubben padded hackamore (leather curb strap) and poof problem disappears horse goes around just lovely, he’s dare I say happy. I am happy for him to live life in the hackamore however, he is a hunter.

Note he went in a loose ring french link, with bit guards. I only mention the bit guards because he salivates a lot so maybe they made him itchy?

So questions are:

1. Any ideas on what could cause behavior (vet said only thing she noticed when she did his teeth was that he hated having the roof of him mouth touched)?
2. What kind of bit could I try for shows? (I’m thinking maybe a super super bendy winderen?)

[dmveventer]

Sounds like mouth problems, not bit problems. Was he sedated when he got his teeth done? Did the vet say anything more about why he was sensitive in the mouth? I would get a second opinion from someone experienced with dental work, while horse is sedated so they can get a good look around, and go from there.

[Huntin_Pony]

I wonder if the ventilation tubes used in the surgery caused some change in his esophagus or elsewhere in his throat anatomy. Maybe time to scope him and have a look farther down (after doing what dmv suggested).

[phoenixrises]

He was sedated, and he was done my the dvm who does teeth at our practice. Happy to share in dm who it was. She just noted that he didn’t like the roof being touched. I had literally owned him 7 days (though he’d been leased for a few months before that with me, so I know the head behavior is new) when he had emergency colic surgery so I had not had his teeth done before. His teeth showed unremarkable issues (a couple small hooks).

Normal vet thought we should test for lyme (which I will still do) however, with the hackamore fixing the issue, not sure. Also his vit E after months on elevate is now just in the normal range (262 ug/dL). I suggested we move to the liquid version for winter and I think we’ll do that.

[dmveventer]

I would definitely want an answer about why the roof of his mouth is sensitive enough that it was noticeable under sedation. That seems like a logical place to start on why he’s unhappy with a bit in his mouth but goes fine bitless. @Huntin_Pony may be on to something about damage from the surgery too. Lyme and vitamin E wouldn’t be at the top of my list with such obvious signs of a physical problem in the mouth, although there may be multiple issues going on if you’re seeing other symptoms pointing those directions.

[fivestrideline]

Yeah the fact that the vet mentioned it (even if it was just during an unsedated inspection) makes me thing the mouth may be a physical problem vs Lyme and E. A bruised palate or even a fracture somewhere? I’d investigate, but also some time out of bits to let his mouth heal might be all it takes.

Interested in hearing about it if you find a dx or solution!

[Jackie_Cochran]

^^^^^
Yes.

I have had to had 2 root canals lately. My mouth is still sore and still healing. If I were a horse and someone put a bit in my sore mouth I would rebel.

Why don’t you try to just ride him in the hackamore for a while, like 2 months, 6 months or a year. Your horse may be telling you he has a PROBLEM in his mouth and really needs an alternative to a bit for a while so his mouth can heal up and not get irritated/re-injured by a bit.

The first bit I would try afterwards would be some type of Mullen mouth, whether metal or plastic/rubber, just so the bit does not irritate the roof of the horse’s mouth.

Then after several months of hoped for improvement you could cautiously experiment with other mouthpieces. I would stay away from single jointed bits for sure.

The Fager jointed snaffles have smaller joints in the mouthpiece that do not project upward as much. The mouthpiece joints in your jointed snaffle might just be too big for your horse’s mouth and he is telling you all about it.

[Small_Change]

If the dental was more to address sharp spots, the horse could have “passed” the exam with flying colours. Perhaps a more thorough check needs to be done for loose or cracked teeth? A cracked tooth can be easy to miss without really going over each tooth very carefully. Dental xrays might be something to consider too.

[Demerara_Stables]

This is exactly what I thought. If he was already sensitive on the roof of his mouth (weird - get that checked via scope, maybe X-ray?), the intubation could very easily have exacerbated the problem. Hopefully it’s something that can be fixed or will heal on its own with time in a hackamore.

Please keep us updated, this sounds like a rare problem to have!

[Xanthoria]

I wonder if he’s allergic to the rubber or neoprene in the bit guards?

[phoenixrises]

That is my thought too! We’re going to give him a month in the hackamore and then try a super soft mullen mouth (thinking the white winderen?) and see if it comes back. He’s been in the hackamore for a week now, and continues to be great.

I will note, I got the behavior once during this week, it was after I got after him for something (not like beat him! but I gave him one good smack on the shoulder when he bulged and ignored my leg) and he reached down and bit his chest once. So it looks like this is a stress response? And the bit is what’s adding stress? Isn’t it great that after 30 years in horses I continue to see new things

[Alterrain]

@Jackie_Cochran

Why don’t you try to just ride him in the hackamore for a while, like 2 months, 6 months or a year.

The horse is a hunter.

[GraceLikeRain]

And? Right now this behavior is completely at odds with being a competitive hunter. If horse is happy in hack, toss him in a hack for a few months while figuring out the root cause. The horse isn’t going to get ruined going in a hack or bitless bridle for a while at home.

[fivestrideline]

I think the point Alterrain was trying to make is that this issue will ultimately need to be addressed because the horse is a hunter and must go in a bit at shows, not that the idea of time going bitless is silly for a hunter horse.

It sounds as if OP is willing and able to dig further rather than just hoping a year without a bit will fix the problem (a valid approach, but not guaranteed to work either!). It does sound to my uneducated mind that there is something physically wrong with the horse’s mouth - having seen a cracked, necrotic tooth and what that did to a horse I’d be ALL over the diagnostics, personally.

OP keep us updated - this is a weird one and I’m interested to see how it goes!

[phoenixrises]

Thought I would update. After almost 3 months in a hackamore, with none of the issues transferring to a hackamore. We introduced a bit and the behaviors came back immediately, and we’re talking like every bit my trainer has, including leather bits, HS Duo, etc, everything very mild, then tried some that horses don’t like on the whole, like a single joint etc. No dice. So I’m gonna have x-rays done and see where we are.

The saga continues.