Not eating, prascend, and tough decisions

In a catch 22 situation with my old retired mare. She has been cushingoid for about four years now, and is currently 23 years old. She started off on Pergolide (very hard to get her to eat it, a hard no in plain powder form and barely acceptable in a flavored compounded pill that we still had to work at daily to get her to eat) and has now been on Prascend (.5mg for the first year, currently 1mg) for about two years. Last year, she did well over the summer, then stopped eating anything but grass in September. We tried cutting the dose in half, which did nothing to improve her appetite, and I was nervous about her getting too thin going into winter, so we stopped the Prascend all together, and she regained a normal appetite, did fine over the winter (mild here last year). We resumed the Prascend in April, trying to go up slowly (1/2 pill every other day for a couple of weeks to 1/2 pill every day for a couple of weeks, finally to a full pill at the beginning of June). She did not shed well on 1/2 pill, has mostly shed now on a full pill, but her hair is definitely longer than a normal horse. Her appetite is very low and she has lost her spark somewhat and seems depressed at times (when on meds but her usual self when off meds). She is refusing all grain and hay, only eating grass again. Her mouth and teeth were just checked a couple of weeks ago and are fine, not a dental issue.

I would say that her body condition is currently about a three and at the minimum I’m comfortable with. I think she can maintain for the rest of the summer (turned out on nice pasture 24/7), but I’m at a loss for fall/winter. To at least maintain in the winter, she needs free choice hay and a minimum of 5lbs Ultium. Not to mention that she won’t be getting the meds without eating at least a handful of grain. She refuses it in a fig newton or hiding it in treats. If we stop over the winter again, she’ll still need it in the spring to shed, and the episodes of refusing food seem to be happening earlier each year.

Any suggestions? At this point, I’m leaning towards giving her a great summer, stopping the meds, and putting her to sleep in October or so. I don’t see her improving, and I want to let her go before she gets to a bad place. She is boarded with a friend of mine, who is lovely, and is trying everything she can to get 1 pill per day into her. Also relevant to the situation, I’m pregnant with my second child and due in January, so if she were to decline rapidly this winter/spring, it would be a bad time to deal with it. I’ve owned this mare for 18 years, and this is such a tough decision, but better a day too early, right? :cry:

It sounds like you are doing all you can and have given your mare a wonderful long life.

I always have the vet check the mouth when an oldie is off it’s food. Their teeth can break, fall out, etc., quite suddenly once they become senior citizens.

Is it possible to stop the Prascend for a week or so to let her appetite come back, then add back the 1 pill every other day, with perhaps 1/4 to 1/2 a pill on the in between day?

Is there a sweet spot between accepting few of the less dangerous symptoms of Cushing’s and keeping the med dosage low enough that mare has an appetite ? Can the mare be off the Prascend for the summer then take it thru the winter?

Prascend is well known for causing nausea. Horses can feel nauseous. Is there anything your vet could suggest giving your horse for the nausea? Maybe one of the pepto type products?

3 ancient recipes for nausea are Ginger tea, Peppermint tea, and Fennel Seed tea which is good for gas/bloat also. Perhaps wet her food with a tea or offer it in a bucket. Try to use fresh ginger/mint/fennel seed it is easy to make a big batch of herb tea in an Igloo barrel. Many of the herbal supplements have fillers and sugar.

Beware of the artificial sweeteners. Some cause gas/bloating. Real Stevia should be safe.

If it is not possible to mitigate the nausea/anorexia, I think quality [time] is better than quantity.

Jingling for you and you girl!!!

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I don’t think your decision is irrational.

That being said, I have a 27 year old cushings pony on Prascend. I had to clip him because he didn’t shed this spring. Not a big deal, in the grand scheme of things.

He has EOTRH so he has dental issues. But I was amazing what a dental VET found when she sedated him and floated him using a speculum. All KINDS of stuff way in back that the non-vet dentist had missed. He was like a new man, gobbling up his food after just the float-- even with problematic teeth still in his mouth. He was 100% after he got the bad teeth extracted. This was in January.

He went off his feed again a month again and I had her back out. It had only been 5 months since his last float. She found sharp edges cutting into his gums. Addressed them and he’s a food machine again. Again, even without any extractions.

He just needs floats more often and for them to be more thorough.

So… if your horse’s prior dental work was NOT done with sedation/speculum I would invest in that first. But if there are no tooth issues, then I probably would do the same as you-- give her a grand summer/fall and let her go before the ground freezes and the grass dies.

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My 30 year old is on 1 1/2 tabs of Prascend daily. It does nothing to help him shed out. His coat is long and super thick and he must be clipped 2x a year.

Try putting the meds in a small piece of apple or carrot. Give a small piece w/o the meds to entice her to eat the treat, then add to the next piece.

You just need to find the right flavor to add to grains so she will gobble it up. Try some oils too.

I’m surprised she’s allowed on 24/7 turnout, my retire is only allowed 2 hours on a semi-dry lot.

Don’t give up, something will spark her to eat her meds.

I have similar issues going with my mare. She is off prascend now. She is not IR and had low levels. She had colic symptoms and lost weight . I am going to start Ulcer Guard again . She has been treated before. I clip several times a year. The move to Texas has been hard on her. I added alfalfa pellets to her Purina Senor feed. It is a horrid condition.
Sounds like you are taking care of her.

Thanks all.

We have pretty much come to the conclusion that to maintain a good quality of life, she will have to be taken off Prascend. She has to be able to eat, especially when grass becomes limited. My issue with that is obviously Cushings with no meds is going to catch up with her at some point…I think I feel better about being able to determine an end point and know she has had a good last few months rather than wait for her symptoms to progress and something bad to happen.

To answer questions, a very well respected equine dentist just looked at her teeth two weeks ago and she didn’t even need to be floated. I’m very confident this is not a tooth issue; you can literally watch her appetite decrease rapidly once she starts Prascend and it comes back full force within weeks of stopping. Even 1/2 pill has her greatly reducing her intake and would not be sustainable in the winter.

She is not IR and has never been laminitic or foundered. But I don’t want to play with fire and bet that it won’t happen at some point. Also, no other symptoms of ulcers.

She has always been picky about supplements, don’t see her eating herbs or drinking tea when we can barely get her to take a bite of grain at the moment. Good idea though.

If you’re going to take her off the Prascend anyways, you could add some chaste tree berry powder. It can help with the symptoms of Cushing’s but I don’t think it does anything for the disease itself (it doesn’t control the ACTH levels, for example). My picky gelding eats it just fine (I feed a “heaping” teaspoon daily) and it does help him shed. He’s also on Prascend, but that does nothing for his coat.

The anorexia/loss of appetite is the number one side effect of pergolide. Most horses get past it somewhat easily, every now and then we have one where it is a real challenge. Since we board retirees we deal with a lot of PPID/Cushing’s horses and prascend.

With these horses that truly struggle with the loss of appetite we take them off prascend for however long it takes for a normal appetite to return, be that a few days or a few weeks. Then we start back at a quarter tablet every other day for a 2 to 3 weeks, then a 1/4 tablet every day for 2 to 3 weeks, then alternate between 1/4 tablet and half tablet for 2-3 weeks etc., and eventually we reach the desired dose. We had a pony that, like your mare, I really thought we were going to have to euthanize him. He would not eat on prascend, but really needed to be on the prascend. We did the above protocol (and when he wouldn’t eat we would either dissolve the prascend in water in syringe or just shove it down his mouth like pilling a dog or a cat), and he is up to 1.5 prascend tablets per day, eats like a machine and looks fantastic (with regular body clipping). It took 4-5 months of the above routine, and being willing to find a way to get the tablet in him when he wouldn’t eat, and that was three years ago now. I honestly thought we were fighting a losing battle but it all worked out.

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I did the same thing exactly 4 years ago… I took my then 29-yr old Arab gelding off of Prascend due to lack of appetite. I decided, with the vet’s blessing, to simply let him be a horse for the rest of his days. I had to clip him every few months, but he simply flourished after being pulled off the meds. I allowed him to graze, knowing it might hasten the arrival of the day he crossed the bridge, but also knowing he was blissfully happy out there grazing with his pals.

I finally lost him on March 4th, this year. He was 33 years old. He was fine in the AM, and down at 5pm and just had no desire to rise. Not painful, just tired and peaceful. He actually laid down on his buddy’s grave, that we had lost 6 months earlier. The vet came out and he went peacefully. He was ready, and so was I.

I do not FOR ONE SECOND regret taking him off Prascend. He was just one of the few horses where Prascend/Pergolide were not the “miracle cure” that they typically are.

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I have a pony that stopped eating grain/ picked at it after I started him on Prascend. I tried giving it to him dosed with molasses and he spit it out. Then I mixed it with his grain ( ration balancer). He either did not eat the grain or left the last part of the grain that had the Prascend in it. So I dosed him before he ate. Wouldn’t eat grain but was fine with hay. So… I take his half a pill, crush it and mix with water and dose him AFTER he eats his grain. Then he gets a handful of alfalfa or goes out to graze immediately after. He chows down on his alfalfa or grass.

He did lose about 100 pounds when we started it but the weight loss was a GOOD thing for him. He is now about a 6.5 body score and vet says it is a good weight for him. Dosing him after he eats seems to work for him although I am not sure why. Maybe the feed dilutes the effect when he takes it.

Can you melt the pill in liquid or applesauce and squirt it in her mouth?

Guys, the main issue is not how to get the mare to eat Prascend. It’s that when she’s on Prascend she GOES OFF FEED due to the side effects of the medicine

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I have a mini that had a hard time adjusting to the Prascend. We ended up putting him on the compounded Perglide from Wedgewood because my vet said that sometimes he had better luck that way, for some unknown reason. I super slowly upped the dosage, and it worked.

A few years in, he’s now on the Prascend without any of the side effects.

If the side effects returned, I’d go back to the compounded, and if they persisted I’d have no qualms about eliminating the pergolide altogether. I’d do what you’re doing.

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Not to mention that you shouldn’t be crushing prascend. Dissolving in liquid, okay, but not crushing. It’s bad for human health!
I’ve had two friends take their horses off prascend. Both diagnosed about two years ago and just not a good fit for them. Prascend made one of the horses very spooky and the other the owner felt it contributed to some health problems. One of the horses is 24 and the other 29. Both still being ridden and otherwise okay. Obviously talk to your vet but if it’s prascend or euthanize I would take her off the prascend.
we’ve got seven horses at the farm on Prascend. Most of them still need body clips 4+ times a year. I’d say it reduces the amount of hair growth in some but certainly their hair growth is not normal!

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I have not experienced the loss of appetite side-effect myself, but on the “getting her to eat it” front, my 23 y.o. mare gets a compounded pergolide liquid through my vet that we squirt in her mouth once daily. It may sound like a pain, but its no more work than shoving a pill in a treat. We draw up the tiny syringe, and squirt 1 mL in her mouth as she walks by the feed room on her way to turnout. Being a tiny amount of thin liquid, it plunges really easily. Sounds like this won’t fix your appetite problem, but just wanted to post this for others that may have issues feeding the pill (we too tried hiding it in a treat, dissolving it in wet grain, etc. to no avail - she would spit the pill out or refuse grain completely). Good luck with whatever you decide - you obviously care and are doing what is best for her.

If it comes down to a choice between treating Cushings and an immediate health risk (for me it was treating Cushings or my horse’s asthma) you have to do what’s best for your horse. I flat out told the vet that if it was a choice between Prascend and breathing I had to choose breathing.

It sounds like you WILL lose your mare this winter if you keep giving her Prascend, but she might winter fine without the Prascend. But I don’t know what her symptoms are and how that might affect her. Cushings is a degenerative disease as it slowly but surely causes ongoing damage to various systems in the horse’s body. Prascend helps us limit that degeneration but cannot reverse previous damage.

If I were in your situation I would stop the Prascend. In the fall I would then separately assess my horse’s chances of handling another winter well.

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For anyone else having Prascend delivery issues, try dissolving the pill in 4-6ccs of water (Iuse a 12cc syringe). It is a small enough amount of liquid that it just spreads out in the horse’s mouth and cannot be spit out. If your barn is cold use warm/hot water or it will freeze before the pill dissolves (ask me how I know! :wink: ).

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Personally I would stop the Prascend, probably add chasteberry in the hope it might curb symptoms a bit, and plan to euthanize when her quality of life declined. Prascend is amazing in managing this illness, but eating is important too! It sounds as though you have tested every variable and if the Prascend is impacting her appetite even at a slowly increased dose, it may not be the best choice for her. Horses live in the moment, and she would probably rather feel good than have more days.

For those struggling with administration of Prascend, putting it into an empty pill capsule to hide the taste can work wonders. Do NOT grind or handle broken tablets excessively as there can be substantial side effects for humans.

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My horse’s blood levels are within normal range on Prascend but he still needs multiple body clips per year. He has always been that way.

OP, one thing that helped with my horse’s appetite on Prascend was starting APF. If you determine that it is best for her to be on Prascend for the days she has left with you, perhaps that would make a difference for her.

And as far as getting meds into a horse, I’d always had very good luck with dissolving them in Powerade and syringing… but recently was introduced to treats called Nickerdoodles. They are soft, sweet, and just sticky enough that they make the best pill vector I’ve found. My horse goes nuts for them and will tear apart my tack trunk to find even an empty bucket of them to lick.

Outside of that, I think the decision you have come to sounds thoughtful, well-reasoned, and appropriate for her condition. :frowning:

Good thread discussion going on here. I also am having issues with horse losing her appetite and acting very depressed on 1/2 tab of Prascend. I’ve had her on APF for several months, even before starting the pill, but am not sure if it’s helped much or not. Had to back her down to 1/4 pill to get her appetite back and now we are going to slooooowwwwwlllllyyyy ease her up to 1/2 tab and hope she does better. She’s supposed to be on 1 tab but when it comes down to nauseated horse or stopping meds, I’ll stop the meds every time.

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Our 19 year old is on 1 tablet of Prascend without trouble, but he is also on Thyroid supplement.
I was giving it to him without any trouble on a bit of Fig Newton, chased with another bit without the pill.
Then I had surgery and a friend was feeding and he quit eating that.
Now I drill a 1/4", pill sized hole in a piece of cottonseed/alfalfa cube and stick the pill in there, finish the hole with a little bit of Senior feed packed in there and he eats that and a second clean treat without any trouble.
At his spring shot time, our vets said, “whatever we are doing, keep it up, he looks great”.

I wonder if that thyroid powder makes a difference, if some could try that and see what happens, see if your horse perks up?