Novice/Beginner Novice Competitors

[subk]

@enjoytheride

Hunter rings somehow manage to have both short stirrup riders and jumpers all at the same time.

Having spent some time working on the hunter circuit I would tell you their warm up ring etiquette is quite different. Gate stewards hold the ring. There is typically no time or set order that if you miss your eliminated. Nobody thinks twice about holding up the ring. They don’t feel pressed for time. Because of this my experience both as a working groom years ago and as rider in some local shows more recently is that a trainer comes in and commanders a warmup jump for all her students to warm up at the same time for a given division. Now, technically you could go over and jump that jump following one of her students if you wanted to, but it is an unwritten rule that you wouldn’t do that if it wasn’t totally necessary and it will make for an awkward interaction. The lack of pressure to get to the in gate creates an environment where riders/trainers sort of take turns with use of a warmup fences “owning” it until they are completely done warming up. (And they are all happy about it!) I assume it doesn’t happen exactly like that at every show, but it does if they can make it work.

Granted it’s been a few years so maybe things have changed, but never I saw jumpers and SS sharing warm up jumps either–rarely saw them sharing even the same warmup ring.

@trubandloki

Almost none of them think they own the space and can do what they want.

I think it is more likely that there are no small details a lower level rider needs to focus on and prep for to be able to bring on their best performance. Their warm up should be more about trying to get the big picture stuff taken care of, so they can be and usually are quite flexible. Upper level warm ups tend to vary more and be ridden to a plan to meet the quirks of individual horses. They know what they need to get accomplished and there is some determination/competitive factor that presses them to get it done. I never had the problems as a rider in an UL warmup that I’ve had in a LL one.

ETA: No one gives a damn if someone is trotting. What they ARE concerned about is WHY someone is trotting. If you are trotting because you lack confidence as to whether you are able to have basic control in all three gaits it is concerning. If you don’t understand that I’m not sure anyone can explain it to you. I don’t like to be on the road with 15 year old drivers either, much for the same reason.

[enjoytheride]

@subk

ETA: No one gives a damn if someone is trotting. What they ARE concerned about is WHY someone is trotting. If you are trotting because you lack confidence as to whether you are able to have basic control in all three gaits it is concerning. If you don’t understand that I’m not sure anyone can explain it to you. I don’t like to be on the road with 15 year old drivers either, much for the same reason.

But the previous poster specifically said that trotting logs isn’t eventing. SEVERAL TIMES. So yes, she does care that someone is trotting and she didn’t specify that she only disliked people who felt more comfortable trotting. Eventing is cantering fences, period. So let’s ban all trotting of fences and then eventing becomes magically safer and the REAL eventers will be happy that people who don’t belong stay home (or at the very least stay at schooling shows where they won’t bother REAL eventers). Frankly I’d much rather someone show up at a HT, realize they didn’t have as much control cantering at a show as they did at home, and trot. I’ve seen people who have other horses going Prelim trotting their baby ottbs because they lack confidence in their ability to control the horse’s canter in a exciting warm up. Should they also be banned?

I want someone to make the decision to trot or canter in warm up or on course because it was the right thing to do, not because someone on a BB pressured them into cantering or staying home. Frankly I find the slow trotters easier to avoid than the mach 7 gallopers in warm up. How many times have I seen someone trotting a DN ditch or into water? Or pulling up after their first BN XC with time penalties but no jump faults with a dumb grin on their face? How many of those people trotting logs are volunteering for those of you doing REAL eventing? How many might canter their logs next season? How many might find a different sport that’s more welcoming based on the rantings of people on a BB?

[enjoytheride]

@Blugal

So you agree that eventing warm up rings at BN level can be crazy. I’m not sure why you are arguing for people/horses who aren’t comfortably cantering to be in these situations?

Because I do not see and have NEVER seen how someone trotting a fence in XC warm up because they are nervous, or on a green horse, or just plain feel like trotting is any more dangerous than someone cantering out of control. And we have no idea if they’re fine cantering at home but their horse is a little up at the show so they trot for control or they’re a little nervous, or they just ran Rolex last week and are taking a client’s green ottb out, or what.

Because we’re trying to draw a line at who BELONGS and who doesn’t BELONG and if we’re going to go down the line and remove people from recognized events, or define what’s REAL eventing and what’s not eventing then it’s a long line and we end up eliminating a whole bunch of people who previously thought eventers were a welcoming sort and then we have to rename all those schooling horse trials since trotting logs or manicured ground isn’t REAL eventing.

[ClassyJumper]

@enjoytheride thank you! I wish I could more than once haha

[Ajierene]

To back up what @enjoytheride is saying, I trotted stadium my first season of BN with my current horse. I’m a bit older and am working on an irrational fear we are going to slip and fall in stadium since most places I compete at have stadium on the grass. My horse also had some attention issues when she was younger. She’s great and locks onto the jump now but before she’d be like “SQUIRREL…AHH, where did this jump come from!!!” So we trotted.

No one watching us knew why we trotted. You cannot go to an event and immediately know why someone is trotting over cantering. I trotted all of cross country before because it was so mucky out, I worried about her and her butt issues (I know people say hind end but I like to be technical and scientific about it).

My first Novice, I trotted down a long hill to a scary jump - we did pick up the canter before the jump but then trotted after down another long hill. I am not sure if she downshifted because I have been working on hill work and making her trot down hills. I don’t know if it was easier because of her aforementioned butt issues. But she did downshift and I didn’t kick her on because I figured she knows what she’s doing. She cantered the rest of the course and ate it up for breakfast, it was those two big downhills that for some reason she trotted and to an observer, they may have thought that was at my direction.

Does that make me unsafe?

[Ruth0552]

I have been in both eventing and hunter/jumper warm-up rings and my opinion of them is pretty much the same- they are all a shit show. There is always some BNT barking instructions at their students from the middle of the ring, completely disregarding the other people in there. The only place they aren’t a shit show is if the facility has enough rings to have multiple warm-up rings. At dressage shows, they always limit the riders in warm-up to X number of people before your ride. I don’t know why they don’t do this for eventing, but I suppose it’s because of lack of volunteers and available facilities.

My current horse does poorly going downhill because he’s aging etc. If the footing is crappy, we are definitely not galloping down a hill, or even cantering. We’ll trot down, and canter fences a few strides out, or if the fence is small enough, just trot it. When I was a teen and I had a big OTTB off the track we definitely trotted entire BN courses. He could bolt when cantering, so we only cantered selectively. We were trotting to stay safe, and were safer because we were trotting.

[pony_grandma]

You know sitting as a fence judge you see all kinds of things… and pretty damn quick you learn to recognize when it’s done right. I repeat this story. Coming from the 70’s when you started at Training I had to get over my snickers at Starter. I learned a huge lesson one event. I saw a young pro, or just a GOOD rider, bring a young horse through at a very strong forward road trot, ridden like a rr track between hand and leg, justa stringing those fences together that day. That horse never even saw a fence judge. It was beginning to hunt those fences, ears pricked forward and focused. Straight and forward! HUGE difference to the non forward moving canter, canter, hip out to the right, hip out to the left, then brace the front legs and the rider goes plop scenario.

I quit judgement that day. Came home, we were starting a 4 yr old over cross poles that fall - I moved all the standards and poles out into the field and said strong trot around over and over and keep changing direction. Also I am a huge gymnastics teach forward taught person.

Our young horse was xc schooling at 6 and he trotted his first presentation to a Prelim corner and had zero hesitation.

Altho, I temper this with the fact that I have seen very unprepared people/horses at events. Especially tight tense hanging on the reins, leaning forward, at the slightest hint of a decline in ground. Then punishing the horse for a stop. That upsets me.

[Libby2563]

@Ruth0552

At dressage shows, they always limit the riders in warm-up to X number of people before your ride. I don’t know why they don’t do this for eventing, but I suppose it’s because of lack of volunteers and available facilities.

This must be a regional thing because I’ve never been to a dressage show with a limited warm-up. This includes many recognized shows in Regions 1 and 9, as well as USDF Nationals (where I did almost get crashed into by a horse bolting across warm-up while the rider flopped around ineffectually on top…this was the Grand Prix final too!). The only shows I’ve ever been to where warm-up was limited as you describe were actually horse trials at one specific venue in Area 2.

[Impractical_Horsewoman]

@Ruth0552

I have been in both eventing and hunter/jumper warm-up rings and my opinion of them is pretty much the same- they are all a shit show. There is always some BNT barking instructions at their students from the middle of the ring, completely disregarding the other people in there.

Yeah, I’m a little surprised by all the posts of people who have had positive experiences in beginner hunter-jumper warmup rings. The ones I’ve seen and ridden in have been terrifying, given the vast levels of difference in horse and rider ability and speed. (I mean, I survived, since this is not my ghost posting, but still.) Young riders in particular seem to have a strange belief that they MUST obey the trainer at all costs, even if another horse has just turned directly in front of them.

The dressage warmups I’ve been in have always had fewer riders, perhaps because of the size of the show and the greater ease of juggling rider times. The lack of obstacles in the ring itself helps, though. There isn’t the pressure to “get at that practice jump or else.”

[endlessclimb]

I will concur that the warm up is the one place where I grit my teeth. I almost hope for XC right after or before SJ, so that I can pop one fence and be done and ready for the next phase. I’ve almost been in several wrecks in the warm up (and yah, at schooling shows, not sure about recognized).

[asterix]

There ARE eventing warmups that limit the number of riders. My husband has been running SJ warmup at our barn for years - we do several recognized HTs through Intermediate, a 3 day, and several unrecognized.
Our warmup space is limited, so he in turn limits the number of riders actively warming up. Every show he gets push back from someone who hasn’t been there before.
People who come on a regular basis mostly love the system. It’s never chaotic and there is always room and time for riders to get their warmup done.
I’ve been at other local events as a competitor, had people recognize my husband, and ask him to step in and sort out warmup.
We went to Kentucky (Land Rover) a few years ago, were walking the xc course as spectators, and two competitors recognized him and asked him to come steward warmup at their upcoming FEI event.
I know it’s not commonly done, but there is no reason it can’t be. Done right it works well and riders actually like it.

[atl_hunter]

Hunter jumper rings are paradise when compared to stock breeds where as a 12&under child I warmed up with reining people galloping and sliding (and bombarding) into me! Reiners were the absolute worst! Even the gaming riders had better etiquette.

Give me a hunter/jumper warmup any day!

[Spudsmyguy]

Regarding the attitudes of eventers over HJ riders, I will take eventers over any of the others for being helpful and friendly. I was at a HJ show doing a schooling jumper class without a trainer in tow and my horse took a rail in warmup. I asked one of the coaches standing around if they would mind putting the rail back up and she acted like it was the biggest imposition on her time. She game me the snottiest look while doing it and I thanked her profusely. I guess she expected me to dismount in a busy warmup with horses going every which way and put the rail up myself.

Meanwhile, at an event in warmup, I had coaches offering to assist me if I was there alone. Offering the help instead of making it into the biggest hassle of their life to put up a dropped rail.

[trubandloki]

There are snotty people at events and nice people at HJ shows and the other way around. Shrug.

[ghst13]

I don’t think any one group of people get to claim superiority in being the nicest. In fact, I personally find it rather ironic that some eventers will continually profess how they are the nicest, most welcoming people around while simultaneously disparaging other disciplines. Why does niceness among one group have to come at the cost of unkind remarks against another?

I’ve encountered nice people and not so nice people in all the disciplines I’ve participated in - eventing, hunter paces, dressage, H/J, trail riding. For every anecdote someone has about a negative experience they had in a certain discipline there will be someone with a positive experience and vice versa.

[Libby2563]

@asterix

There ARE eventing warmups that limit the number of riders. My husband has been running SJ warmup at our barn for years - we do several recognized HTs through Intermediate, a 3 day, and several unrecognized.
Our warmup space is limited, so he in turn limits the number of riders actively warming up. Every show he gets push back from someone who hasn’t been there before.

Pretty sure this is the Area 2 venue I referred to in my post. Cool that that’s your husband! I was definitely a little surprised the first time I showed there (no push-back from me though!). I wouldn’t like it for dressage since there are some horses that need a much longer “first warm-up of the day” than others, but the system does work well for SJ. Thank you to Mr. Asterix for being the traffic controller!

[equinelibrium]

@atl_hunter

Hunter jumper rings are paradise when compared to stock breeds where as a 12&under child I warmed up with reining people galloping and sliding (and bombarding) into me! Reiners were the absolute worst! Even the gaming riders had better etiquette.

Give me a hunter/jumper warmup any day!

Oh my gosh so true! I showed QHs as a kid and riding with the reiners was the worst, especially when your pony is a reining dropout with PTSD Just like everyone else, I don’t like a hectic warmup but I can deal with it pretty well after those experiences!

[beowulf]

@asterix

There ARE eventing warmups that limit the number of riders.

Several venues in A1 do this as well. No complaint from me. I’ve often found it is sorely needed. I want to say I’ve never gotten flack for it as a ring steward, but I have a few times when riders have shown up a full hour before their ride time at a one-day event.

I wish more shows did it for dressage. Many do it for SJ and XC warm up, but I’ve found as a competitor I’ve needed it the most in dressage. Between everyone being oblivious, people showing up to warm up a full hour and a half before their ride time, and people riding out their tests while there are fifteen people in the warm up, I find dressage to be the most stressful phase to warm up for… and it’s my favorite phase to ride.

[enjoytheride]

@atl_hunter

Hunter jumper rings are paradise when compared to stock breeds where as a 12&under child I warmed up with reining people galloping and sliding (and bombarding) into me! Reiners were the absolute worst! Even the gaming riders had better etiquette.

Give me a hunter/jumper warmup any day!

Try open shows. My mare’s very first horse show had saddlebreds, walking horses, people in native costume, and carriages in the same arena. I think she was so overwhelmed that she decided to let me be in charge for once! After that a beginner trotting in warm up was no big deal!

[McGurk]

The Virginia Horse Trials at the Lexington Horse Center used to have the most amazing warm up for stadium. There is a covered arena next to the coliseum, and a tiny indoor with one schooling fence between the covered arena and the coliseum. Only riders within 30 minutes of their ride time were allowed in the covered arena, or less than 15 riders; you were only allowed in the tiny indoor when you were on deck, so you had a minute to collect yourself, breathe, jump a final warm up jump, and then walk down the chute to the coliseum. I saw the steward refuse entry to riders who were 40 minutes or more out from their ride time.

Heaven.

But this venue also has tons and tons or warm up areas all over the grounds. I don’t remember the dressage warm-ups specifically, but I don’t remember it being crowded or harrowing.