Honestly, I would like to see the USEA Aggressively reach out to landowners. That is to say, actively solicit them, low cost insurance is a huge start but they are not exactly telling landowners that is an option or that this is a sport that is looking for land. In addition, how about the organization start to foster volunteers, start to foster jump builders, course designers, never mind day of’ volunteers, etc…and then prominently advertise that they are looking for land?
For giggles, I just spent some time on USEA’s website. Which is very nice. There is some area for volunteers, but not very focused. I could find nothing that might encourage a landowner to be involved.
(but maybe this is just my perennial decades long complaint about horse sports…land conservation and land use and the importance thereof is somewhere in the negatives as far as horse owners are concerned)
Just one person’s viewpoint.
I started Combined Training in the 60s as a Pony Clubber.
My first recognized event, in 1971, was at Training, the then new “lowest level”. Then I went off to college and grad school, and stopped riding, at least competitively.
When I started competing again in the early 1980s there was a NEW “lowest level” called Novice, so I started there an worked back up to Training (and one Prelim).
Then another “lowest level” was introduces, Beginner Novice. I started several young horses who did 2 or 3 Beginner Novice HT before moving up to Novice. As I have noted before, I have some concerns about the conflict between BN being “a good introduction” and “a level where year end results are important.” But I have never had any problems with the horses and riders who chose to compete at BN, whether 3 times, or for years on end.
Fast forward to the mid 20 teens, and I had a bit of a hiatus from competing. I was bringing along a young horse, and put my older horse on the back burner. Then the young horse (who was eliminated in SJ at her first BN HT) started having some physical and behavior/ performance problems. So I was schooling, and doing some low jumper shows, but not eventing. Then in 2018 I fell off her crossing a stream (at a walk) and cracked 6 ribs. It took a while before I was riding again, and I was still schooling (both horses) but not competing. In spring of 2019 I was diagnosed with a benign brain tumor. The surgery was completely successful, but again it was several months before I could ride again. Spring of 2020 I was planning to get serious about riding and competing, but then everything shut down due to Covid.
In my slow comeback, by the end of 2020, I had only got to the point of being comfortable jumping 2’ on either horse. Spring of 2021 I started taking serious lessons again, and was determined to get back into competing. But I was still being a wimp about jumping. I was jumping my older horse, Belle, 2’6", and she was thoroughly annoyed at such low jumps, but she tolerated my re-learning curve.
In late spring 2021 (after a break of 5 years) I took her in a BN Combined Test (Dressage plus untimed cross country). When we were on the cross country course she immediately wanted to go 450 mpm, but I kept her at a trot except for the actual jumps. She did fine and we finished third. But the point here is that I was feeling somewhat embarrassed/ awkward about dropping back to BN when we had done Training for so long (qualifying for Area Championships several times). But everybody, from people who had known and competed against me for years to up and coming young riders said “Good for you” .
This past weekend we did a BN full HT. Again, she wanted to go 450pm on cross country, and I had to keep slowing her down to be in control. As a result we had time penalties (to go fast, you have to go slow). But we had clear rounds in terms of jumping penalties. By the time we got back to the trailer I was exhausted (not as fit a I thought I was). I tied her to the trailer (with hay net and water bucket previously set up), pulled off her tack and dumped it on the ground a safe distance away, pulled off my helmet, vest and boots, grabbed a bottle of ice water, and lay down on the ground for about half an hour before I was fit to do anything else. The people at the next trailer were sympathetic. When I felt well enough to go to the secretary’s office to pick up my dressage test, one of the people there (she is competing now at Prelim) said “Don’t laugh. At my last event, when we got back to the trailer I lay down on the ground for half an hour without even taking the horse’s tack off.”
My point is that not only have I never been disdainful of anybody competing at BN, no one was disdainful of me. Of course, I do not know what, if anything, they are saying behind my back. (It MAY make a difference that, even while not competing, I have remained active in the “Eventing world”, as a licensed official, committee member, and on the board of the local CTA. Someone who does not already feel “part of the community” might have a different perception.)
Finally, there is no question that “new to eventing” horses and riders might have safety issues the first time they do a full cross country course (which can be a big change form schooling a few cross country jumps at a time). But everyone has to start somewhere, and the safety issues are definitely reduced by having levels like BN (and Intro) where the heights are lower and the speeds are slower.
Hmmm. I have shown at WEC multiple times in all kinds of competitions - classical dressage, western dressage and hunters. People have been so kind at ALL the shows.
At my last hunter show, my trainer was showing a few western dressage horses on the same weekend, so I went to the ring to get in a rotation and to address add/scratches (normally my trainer does this). The ringside staff were extremely kind and helpful.
When my trainer went to school me the night before in the warmup area (no schooling over the course that day), another person was there schooling a rider and she helped my trainer set an oxer and then we shared it. There was none of the weird territorial jump “ownership” that we often see. By the time I left there were four trainers in the ring and we had all been sharing jumps and rotating the riders. It was actually a better way to school and I’ve never seen that before.
As for my classes, my horse is green and I have to make every change happen, and after I laid down a solid trip and got the changes the other people in my rotation cheered me on and congratulated me (even though I’d never met them before).
Coming back to the barn we had to walk across the throughway outside by Sgt Reckless and you’d have thought I was walking a red carpet. What looked like a bus load of people had unloaded and they pulled out their phones and took pics like the paparazzi as we walked by. Even the spectators were kind. Nobody asked to pet the horsie - they all stayed back and were respectful.
Back at the stalls, a family came through our aisle as I was in my horse’s stall. They had never been to a show and were asking all kinds of questions about the horses and the competition. They had no idea that horses were imported to the US and it was a fun conversation as I explained how the shipping works. They weren’t pushy at all about my horse and were very respectful so I untied my horse and let their daughter pet him - the parents were really appreciative and I hope I inspired a future equestrian.
I truly believe kindness starts with us. We get back what we put out.
I grew up doing hunter/jumper and equitation. Now I event. The difference I see in the people at competitions is about how competitive they are, not how nice they are. I never encountered rude people at a H/J show, but there was a certain amount of competitiveness. You wouldn’t share your tips or secrets with other competitors not at your barn. In eventing, at shows I see a genuine desire from all the competitors for everyone to do well. Everyone is not just friendly, but helpful, and wants every single person to finish successfully and safely.
There is certainly camaraderie. My first Training, I was walking the XC alone because my trainer was coaching another rider for dressage. A large group with an instructor noticed, and offered for me to walk with them. When I told them it was my first training the instructor included me in the course-walk coaching/prep-talk like I was one of her own. I was forever grateful because at that moment I was thinking I’d made a horrible mistake moving up.
There were no trakheners or corners on BN. My son rode BN and I walked the course a few times with him. No idea where they got that from. The course was very well done for a BN championship level course. I actually felt it could have been a little harder. There were a couple of related distance questions but no combinations, no banks and the waters were both very simple with no jumps before the water. Obviously no jumps into the water should be there, but a jump before the water would have been a good and fair question for the level and is something we see at BN fairly often.
The BN track at Tryon this past weekend had a corner and lots of wide tables, houses, ramps and brushes. Was sad to see no bank up or bank down, no ditch and very few natural looking xc jumps.
I think the h/j model promotes this, with the idea that you can’t go to the in-gate without your trainer present, unless it’s maybe a flat class. When I think about my experience at dressage shows, I may be warming up my horse independently of my trainer, as she may have a ride time right before or after mine and may be on a different horse. It’s a very different experience. I think the h/j model promotes that reliance on your trainer more, whereas other disciplines require the rider to be a little more independent, and when you put a bunch of independent people together they will tend to help each other out a bit more.
I think another difference is that eventers want everyone to finish successfully and safely, whereas hunters really just want everyone to finish before sunset, with few ring conflicts along the way!
(Or woman)
Oddly I saw people trotting fences (on purpose) at the AEC at Modified level. I’m surprised nobody stopped them and removed them from the course. Oh wait, because it’s perfectly fine. If someone who’s qualified for the AEC at that level isn’t safe enough to go XC then the rest of us smurfs are screwed.
If you’ve never seen anyone trotting a fence in XC warm up or on a course then you probably haven’t been watching a lot of eventing. I see people trotting fences all the time, schooling or recognized and it’s really nobody’s business and doesn’t mean that they’re scared, or brave, or anything. I have noticed zero issues with people trotting fences in warm ups, at any level.
I’d rather see someone trotting a fence in warm up than the people who are galloping 47 warm up fences. If you’re going to run over the top of someone in front of you trotting a fence then maybe you’re the one who doesn’t belong in the warm up.
I don’t understand how it’s a safety cut off that you MUST canter the entire course or all your warm up fences or you’re not safe and don’t belong at shows. I’ve seen riders at Kentucky 5* trotting warm up fences. I’ve seen some pretty scary ass XC rounds by people cantering. I’ve seen trainers go “you went to fast last show, you can either trot half your fences or you won’t be showing again.” I’d much rather a rider trot when needed and make it over all their fences in control than cantering out of control. Banning trotting fences in warm up or on course isn’t going to make people safer.
Who is suggesting THAT?
A bit of extrapolation on my part, but it seems pretty clear to me that this poster would be more than happy to ban trotting fences at recognized events. Because trotting a fence isn’t eventing and trotting a fence isn’t safe.
If you haven’t seen a nervous or scared rider in XC or SJ warm up then you probably haven’t bothered to talk to anyone! I’ve heard all riders, all the way up to the top, comment on nerves in warm up. Should they not be eventing? I have seen nervous or scared riders in warm up and riders trotting fences at every level and every show, yet the warm ups seem to be managed just fine.
If trotting fences isn’t eventing and nervous people shouldn’t be allowed in warm ups then should these people even be allowed at schooling shows? Shouldn’t they be hiding back at home for fear of judgement? Why would you attend a schooling show ran by someone with this much disdain?
I’m not talking about people who are actually dangerous that’s an entirely different matter. I just strongly disagree that trotting in warm up, trotting on XC, or having warm up nerves is an indication of unsafeness.
"I mean there is a place for trotting logs in the world, but at recognized events? Why? It is not eventing."
"So how do you manage warm up areas with riders who aren’t cantering and are nervous and scared? Warm up rings are terrifying for confident capable riders as it is."
"The definition of XC is galloping over solid fences on varied terrain…not trotting over flat manicured grass."
"What’s there to outline about safety issues? You don’t think there is an issue with people who can’t canter courses showing at recognized events and I do, you’ve shown you aren’t interested in learning just interested in complaining and then making excuses why you can’t take action."
"Sorry I don’t agree it’s safe to have beginners who aren’t cantering at recognized events."
You are really reaching with your interpretation.
She means people who CANNOT canter. Like, have never cantered. Or are nervous cantering. Or aren’t comfortable cantering out in the open.
This is always an issue - if someone who is afraid to, or can’t, or won’t, canter, then has a horse who acts up in warm-up and canters and they panic, and then get out of control, and set off others in the ring, then they fall off and then the medics have to come, and the show has to stop, etc. … that is not safe.
Nobody cares if you are comfortable cantering but just want to trot any jump or even the whole course if that’s what’s appropriate for you and your horse that day.
How is this different from someone who is comfortable cantering whose horse acts up in warm-up and bolts/bucks/spins/rears and they panic, and then get out of control, and set off others in the ring, then they fall off and then the medics have to come, and the show has to stop, etc?
I’m struggling to understand how almost every other discipline can safely have W/T riders in warm-up rings but eventing can’t.
I didn’t see her specify riders who have never cantered in any of the posts I quoted, and she specifically says there’s no place for trotting logs in recognized eventing which means yes, she expects people to either canter all their fences or to stay home.
I also don’t see how beginner riders in the ring are such a menace. Other sports and shows have riders of different skills and even disciplines smashed together in the same warm up (when I showed arabs I’d warm up with carriages, WT riders, western pleasure, saddle seat riders, and juniors on stallions) so what’s the difference? How many times have I seen someone who’s comfortable cantering get lawn darted in the warm up but that’s not an issue? At a recent recognized show we had a 20 minute delay due to a Novice rider falling off in warm up and having a pretty good injury.
I’m not suggesting we need a X rail course at Recognized, but we do have Starter at recognized shows and it brings in plenty of entries and revenue and gives those riders a good opportunity to get used the atmosphere at big shows without the need to move up first.
The difference would be jumping. Preparing for, the flight, the moments of landing, and right after landing. It’s that part of our ride that is always the most dangerous whether you’re in the warm up or not.
I would not use the word “menace,” but with all due respect I’m currently showing BN and I don’t like being in the BN warmup. For eons the common trope has been the BN Rider warm up is the most dangerous place at an event. Statically speaking it might not be, but it sure is the scariest place to be riding. I’ve never in 40+ years of eventing come off the XC course with a lame horse, but I’ve come out of a low level warmup with one after having someone crash into me. I am much more concerned and aware of my and others’ safety in that type of warmup than I am on course.
On this forum people spend endless words trying to imply (or just plain say) that hunter riders can not really ride, but some how their warm up ring involves jumping - in both directions even, with little itty bitty walk trot kids to people going over big sticks, and some how people being killed in warm-up is rare, very rare even.
I have said this before in this thread, my typical volunteer job is show jumping warm up. I find the lower level warm-up ring to be much easier to handle than the higher levels. Most of the lower level riders are busy trying to be safe. Almost none of them think they own the space and can do what they want.
Hunter rings somehow manage to have both short stirrup riders and jumpers all at the same time, jumping in both directions. I fail to see how a rider trotting in SJ warm up or trotting a fence is a danger, especially when all of us eventers are supposed to call our fences. What about all those BN riders galloping at 475mpm in xc warm up trying to work out issues that should have been worked out at home? I have been in plenty of lower level warm ups as both the person trotting fences and the person cantering watching out for those trotting and honestly I’d much rather keep an eye on a trotter who’s moving slower than someone cantering like a drunk While I agree that lower level warm ups can be a circus, I have not noticed anything to make me want to force someone trotting to stay home.
I hate to say it, especially since my experiences are two decades out, and all at the lower levels…but in my experience, the eventing warm up rings are ugly. I have a distinct and very unpleasant memory from King Oak of being absolutely torn into by an upper level eventer (who shall remain nameless, but who was and is very well known) because…well I’m not sure why…actually,…? And that wasn’t the only time.
Never had that experience at either dressage or jumping events.
So you agree that eventing warm up rings at BN level can be crazy. I’m not sure why you are arguing for people/horses who aren’t comfortably cantering to be in these situations?
I mean… I’ve been riding most of my life, eventing for over 20 years. I don’t feel comfortable taking a green horse to a show unless I think I have reasonable control of that horse at W/T/C. Could my green horse act up and I feel out of control? Yes! And that’s why I want them to be comfortable doing everything at home so that when they “go green” at the show, we will still stay safe. But would I start from a position of not being in control and then adding all the stress and activity of a show? No.
