Exactly. Take action.
The people who have an excuse for everything seem to be like that in every area of their life.
You can not make someone give you a volunteer job, no matter how much you call them and bug them. Why do you think that is not true @Jealoushe?
On the running a starter trial where there is not one.
Let us pretend there is land and people who will let it be used for this (which since I know the local pony club can not find anywhere to run a hunter pace, I know is not the case).
Do you also expect the land owner to provide machinery to move around the jumps? Provide whatever is necessary to make part of their land into a parking area?
I know it sounds easy when you type that we should all just do it, but it is truly a pretty darn HUGE hurdle. There is not an available place to run even a small starter trial in many places.
For the record, I do volunteer. I do not compete, I volunteer. My volunteering happens at events that are over an hour away.
The local pony clubs do not hold events to add a starter trial to.
It is interesting that some find the best way to get their point across is to insult those who do not have the options that they have.
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Youāre attitude about some imagined issue about people trotting instead of cantering is preventing you from supporting your fellow eventers. I only started posting here because I found your posts elitist towards individuals running at lower levels. It seems you also want someone to spend say 1,000 man hours setting up an entire separate schooling venue rather than say 200 man hours adding a division to the recognized show. For someone like me, we are looking at doubling or tripling whatever hours you can calculate that you spent setting up that show because we do not have any āinā so why would some pony club or especially a hunt want to help some stranger that may or may not follow up on their proposal?
As tubandloki stated - there are a lot of obstacles to overcome, even more so if you are not āinā. We did lose one schooling venue a few years ago because while the show itself managed to get all done on the property ownerās land (VERY zig zaggy course to make it happen - but no complaining, it was a great place), parking was on someone elseās land. New owners to that property no longer allowed parking. No place to park the trailers, meant no more show. You can still go school cross country there.
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Thanks for the added words, trubandloki and to add to this - one schooling show that I attend is the only Pony Club that I know of in the area. the Pony Club also runsā¦um district? Ratings? Something higher than Pony Club level - I think the next level up is District. What do they do for the cross country phase? They add it to the recognized or unrecognized show at the local state park. So it is not a separate venue or day, itās just the last division of the day.
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This entire thread has just illustrated to me why Iāve stayed out of recognized competition entirely. Why would any organizer jump through all those hoops when it seems like nobody walks away happy and itās next to impossible to actually turn a profit?
Iāve also found that the eventing community (at least in my area) is incredibly unwelcoming. The newbies and the people trying to learn the sport get nothing but derision. The āOh, weāre only interested in the real eventersā attitude that has appeared on this thread is also pervasive amongst our local eventers. Iāve volunteered, attended events as both a groom and a spectator, and all of itās left me completely put off the sport.
Iāll stick to my grassroots local Hunter/jumper circuit, where people are supportive whether youāre a junior on a big fancy warmblood or a adult amateur on a green horse. 
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Iām sorry youāve encountered this in your area. I have lived, competed, and volunteered in 3 different areas and have nothing but good experiences across the board. Is there an isolated bad apple? Sure, always is in life. But I promise you in Area 3, home to perhaps the most number of accomplished, experienced, world class riders in the US every seasonā¦the lower level riders are just as respected. As SJ steward, Iāve watched 5 star riders coach a random BN competitor (NOT their student!) who was nervous, late, frazzled, and needed some positive words. Iāve seen a respected ground jury member, sitting in a booth at show jumping for 8hrs on a hot FL day, hold the ring empty and wait an extra 10 minutes for the final novice ammy rider who was running late when we all wanted to be done for the day. I see comraderie, friendship, tolerance, and open welcoming that you donāt feel at HITS or WEC when I visit.
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I think the difference is what you stated - when you visit.
An outsider does not feel welcomed in either world.
A person there, even a lower level person, might not feel that same outsider feeling.
Though, I have to say that if some posters here express the same amount of disdain for lower level people in person as they do hereā¦I can see lower level eventers not feeling welcome either.
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Honestly your opinion of me is so far wrong at this point Iām just likeā¦whatever.
Donāt tell me I donāt support eventers. You have no idea the amount I give back to this sport. Sorry I donāt agree itās safe to have beginners who arenāt cantering at recognized events. Iāve been eventing since I was a small child and hosting shows for this level of riders for almost a decade. I have experience and that is where my opinion comes from. Iāve seen hundreds of rounds of dressage, XC and showjumping at the baby to N level at schooling shows. Iāve helped riders, Iāve called tests, Iāve picked up countless riders off the ground shuttled them away in ambulances, seen riders go from poles on the ground at my shows to Prelim 5 years later. With experience comes insight.
It has nothing to do with elitism and everything to do with practicality and safety and what makes the most sense for the hosts and competitors.
The fact you say I have elitism to those running lower levels shows you donāt even read my posts AT ALL you just have some biterness towards me because I MYSELF RUN THE LOW LEVELS OFTEN. Ridiculous comments towards me that arenāt warranted.
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Iāve literally never seen this in my 20+ years eventing. Everyone is welcoming. What is perceived as this is just controversy over people saying they donāt want X rails type levels at recognized events for various reasons. Iām not sure how that translates to not supporting new eventers or those who event low levels.
Lots of mental gymnastics happening in this thread.
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Um, people want either the scope creep to stop or something to replace what was the lowest level that is no longer what it originally was.
It is not just that people want cross rails at rated shows.
Talk about mental gymnastics.
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Thatās not what Iām discussing at all but with the way you follow my posts you know that, you just canāt help yourself can you.
You like to tell me that I follow your posts. I am not sure why that is a thing for you. But I can promise you that I do not follow your posts. If you think that, that is on you. I read the forum. A lot of the forum. I do not avoid you, but I certainly do not follow you.
I am sorry that I care about eventing and that makes you think it is all about you.
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I think it is possible to experience the overwhelming kindness that the Eventing Community likes to believe it is known for, and also experience the unkind and ugly side too. It makes me extremely sad to read @Amy3996 and others have had this experienceā¦ but I donāt doubt it happened.
Not every eventer is nice. Iāve had my fair share of experiences that left me cold ā most of while volunteering. It truly is thankless work, and not enough competitors volunteer, so they donāt get the perspective of what itās like sitting on the other side.
I can understand why to an outsider, comments in this thread seem unwelcoming. They do. We should be working towards a solution together rather than nitpicking; weāre a small community divided over a positively huge landscape, with lots of different, outside factors playing into our accessibility and experience in this sport. An A1 rider probably has no idea what the struggles are like for someone in A9, and vice versa - although I will say that eventing is fast becoming the sport of the affluent/rich, and that A1/2/3 riders really have no conceptual clue what it is like for riders in the midwest or west because those A1-3 riders can afford to show up and down the east coast and never run into the āevent deficitā that is seen in many (non-eastern) regions in the country.
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There seems to be some hyperbole being used here for emphasis.
This thread started with complaints about scope creep, how BN and N used to have simple, inviting courses suitable for green horses and green riders, and that now you are likely to see ditchs, water, banks, skinnies and corners on a BN or N course, and that the safe, inviting courses seem to be disappearing.
Some reasonable discussions ensured, about how the growth of the divisions meant the courses had to get harder so it wasnāt just a dressage show, that a championship course, such as the AECs, should be harder than the courses at a regular competitions and how to make a championship course harder without the scope creep that leaves the average ammy scrambling to find an appropriate venue.
Somehow we got from that reasonableness to āYouāre dumbing the sport down!ā and āYou want a cross pole division at recognized events!ā and āEventers are elitest jerks who donāt think the average rider belongs at recognized shows with them.ā
Thereās also a little bit of false generalization going on, that is: āThis is how it happens in my part of the world, therefore, this is how it happens everywhere, and anyone who tells it doesnāt happen that way where they live is wrong, lying or lazy.ā
Whew.
Step back and take a breath.
Availability of appropriate schooling venues and appropriate competitions for people/horses new to the sport is a problem that needs solving. Scope creep is part of that problem, but there are other issues as well. Letās get back to a constructive conversation of them.
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Iām glad youāve had such a positive experience. Please understand that not everyone has had that luxury. I specifically said that I was referring to my experience with the events that are local to me, so as not to make a generalization to the eventing community as a whole. I never said anything about a crossrail division or anything else. I can completely understand wanting to respect the integrity of the sport and the levels, and that there is a baseline of skill and competency needed to safely navigate a recognized event. I never argued that.
My personal experience had nothing to do with the discussion/ācontroversyā here regarding level creep or adding divisions. I simply watched how riders treated each other, how professionals engaged with their own clients and other riders at these events. More importantly, I watched many riders (not just an isolated few) treat volunteers poorly all day. It was not welcoming environment at all.
Itās a shame, because I would have loved to try my luck as a competitor when my young horse is ready. But I have no interest in dealing with a group of people who treat each other poorly and are even worse to newcomers.
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This. I donāt doubt that there are events where the vast majority of riders and trainers in attendance are wonderful.
Before my senior horse passed, I had the opportunity to take him to lessons and clinics with an Advanced level eventer who also competes on our local circuit in the summer. She winters in Ocala. She was wonderful. It was because of my experience with her that I became interested in the sport of eventing. I started volunteering and attending events to groom or spectate. She coached her intro riders with the same level of dedication that she did the Training level group. Iām not here trying to say that all eventers are bad.
Unfortunately, I did not encounter the same friendly, supportive attitudes at our local recognized events that I found amongst riders at her lessons and clinics.
Wandering past this threadā¦because I Loved eventing as young adult back in the 90ās. And still do. But, if I had to point to a real problem with eventing and the lower levels? It is the complete lack of schooling opportunities. Unless you are well connected or live in a particularly advantageous place for eventing, the opportunities for schooling cross country Do Not exist. They barely existed thirty years ago. I think that lies at the root of a lot of the complaints about level creep. Like it or not, the biggest challenge for alot of people at the lower levels is cantering in a controlled fashion across new, unfamiliar, and undulating terrain. For many people going BN/N, cantering across new fields and jumping competently is an achievement; the jumps donāt need to be super technical. And the reason for that is there is no other opportunity to do so.
If the USEA really wanted to build the lower levels and accessibility, they would support landowners opening their land to cross country schooling. My opinion.
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Support them how? They do offer low cost insurance and you can advertise your schooling venue on the appropriate areaās web page and social media.
I never actually said āyou have elitismā.
I said some of your statement reeked of elitism (see post 75, if Iām reading the marker correctly). I then described my experience. You could have responded then to my statements, but your next post was in reply to someone else and cited safety as your concern but did not elaborate on exactly how lower levels and/or trotting over jumps is a safety issue. You then stated āThere are plenty of schooling events that cater to this exact nicheā.
Trubandloki replied that schooling show opportunities do not exist everywhere, to which you replied , āNot if people do not have land and all that other fun stuff to do them onā.
I then replied to your post stating safety is a concern with questions with a question as to how it is a concern and an explanation that some things are best overcome in a show envirnment and listed those things.
You replied to that post with āThis statement alone shows you donāt understand how events are run or the skills required to go eventing.ā Which, in my opinion is a dismissive statement that assumes you know anything about me. I called you out on it in my next post with āThis statement alone shows you donāt understand how events are run or the skills required to go eventing.ā Then asked you to elaborate on your previous statements so I can understand.
My further replies were specific to my situation in as a way to show not everyone has the same resources (See post 105, 137 for reference).
You then made some statements about if people want a schooling show, they can make it work, if they wanted. Since they do not make it work, they do not want (see post 145 through 147 between yourself and trubandloki).
Post 150, I asked if you could elaborate. You started that post with āFirst of all, letās start with a positive attitude that it can be done, an open mind and remove the passive aggressiveness in our thoughts that make things seem impossible.ā Which I find as another dissmissive and belittling statement.
In my reply, I told you I found it hard to take your ideas to heart since you threw in that condescending comment.
You then decided to tell me I need to work on myselfā¦apparently, I have a bad attitudeā¦This is after my posts stating my roadblocks getting more into volunteering.
Thatās when I decided to throw the barb about āImagined safety issuesā. (post 163).
By my count, you threw 3 barbs, I threw 1 back and now you are dismissing me completely.
What does this have to do with eventing? Well, if you start out by insulting people and being dismissive of their efforts, donāt be surprised when they donāt want to join your group.
Had my trainer not been supportive of me going Elementary (18") at my first event, I would have never started eventing. If I did not have so many schooling events in my area to attend and there was no opportunity at that level (at the time it was Elementary, then Beginner Novice. Now my area has Elementary, Introductory (2ā3"), then BN) at recognized events, I would have never tried eventing.
We are not all the same personality, we do not all live in the same area, We all have different challenges. We should be working together to help everyone be successful rather than tearing each other down. Please do point out how you see it differently so we can clear this up and move forward.
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I do appreciate this but Iām always on the fence. Maybe itās just my age showing but until I came here, I never knew each area had a page. Now, I donāt frequent the USEA site much so maybe something is listed thereā¦is there anyway for someone knew the the sport (volunteer/competitor/hopeful host) would see this? I know seems and odd questionā¦maybe itās just my lack of social network footprint.
