Novice needs advices on naughty horse (We have a baby!)

[AnnaCrew]

(Short update: We survived our first year with horses due to all the wonderful COTH community help and now we have 7 horses. Thank you all!) And now back to beginning - how we started a year ago:

Hello!
I’m complete novice in horses, so please be patient with me. (And English is not my native so forgive please my mistakes too).

My partner and me have had agreed to take a horse as our neighbours (very nice retired couple) is physically not able to care for. My partner Peter had some horse experience in his childhood when he spent time around stalls and was riding horses, but it was very long time ago. I have no horse experience at all, I’m a city girl and have no any knowledge, experience or feeling about horses. I had never been one of the girls, dreaming about her horse, but now we own a big boy. He is 16 yo Latvian breed (warmblood) gelding, big (over 17), and a bit of character.
We own him for a week now :sigh:

He had been with his previous owners over ten years and all these years he had been a biter. He is not a nasty horse, actually he is a nice boy, but this light biting somehow must be stopped otherwise I will be not able to take proper care of him. On top of his biting he is very very bored and spoiled – as his previous owner was getting weaker and weaker, he was mostly kept inside, in a very small box, with one cow as a company. He had not had any job at least past 6 months, and before he was in cart only about 4 times a year for a light 10 km ride, not more.
Since we got him Peter is walking him every day, the farrier had been here to tidy his hoofs (front is done now, back legs will be done after a month as horse can not hold his right back leg up, so after he will get some exercise and loose a bit weight, farrier will rope him to lift up to do his back legs).

So question is
Is it possible to get him out of this biting habit if he was allowed to do that for past ten years as a minimum, and the best ways how to do it?
Other than that his manners are quite good – he is not a really nasty boy.

It is him a week ago (he just enjoyed so much rolling in mud, sorry)

[CanterQueen]

He’s beautiful!!!

So, you package him up and send him to me – for a year or two or six. Then, maybe, I’ll send him back to you all fixed up. :lol::lol::lol:

[AnnaCrew]

Noo, I would really like to keep him… Because the sad truth is that if we shall not be able to stop him biting, he will end up in a slaughtery… It would be not nice solution, isn’t it?
I’m in Latvia, so probably sending horse your way for a groundwork would be not the best idea
I’m planning to go to stables on Saturday to get same basic lessons how to handle the normal, well beheived horse and I do hope that I will feel better then, but at present… I can go to him and brush him only when he is in his box.

[JB]

Wow, that’s the biggest WB I’ve ever seen! Are you sure he’s not a Percheron, or some draft cross? Regardless, he’s adorable!

Yes, absolutely the biting can be stopped. There are many ways to go about this - pick one that suits you and your horse.

• very quick and smart smack on the nose - make it count. YOU have to be fast. Then forget it ever happened and continue doing whatever you were doing - no grudges. Be sure to routinely stroke his face/muzzle when he’s being polite - don’t make the only contact with his head this smack

• keep a thumbtack sticking pin-out in your fist so that his nose hits that. You aren’t jabbing him, his actions cause him to run into the pin.

• grab and yank whiskers

• give him more of what he’s seeking - attention with his mouth. Vigorously rub, hard, his muzzle until he decides that’s no fun and backs off. Again, his action brings this on. Once he backs off, make nice and politely rub him so he understands you are not the enemy.

Know first though that he can’t bite if he’s not close enough So, one of the first, and best things to teach any horse is to stay out of your personal space.

[CanterQueen]

@JB;2987104

give him more of what he’s seeking - attention with his mouth. Vigorously rub, hard, his muzzle until he decides that’s no fun and backs off. Again, his action brings this on. Once he backs off, make nice and politely rub him so he understands you are not the enemy.

This is what I do and have found it to work well. I usually grab a lip and pinch like crazy until he backs away. Then pats and rubs.

Good luck!

[caffeinated]

Is there someone at the stables who can help you, not just with trained/easy horses but who can maybe help you with your horse too?

It sounds like the horse will be fine as long as he gets consistent/firm handling and a job (he sounds bored, LOL), but it’s kind of hard to explain things over the internet, especially since correcting biting and pushy behavior requires good timing.

If you can afford it, see if someone from the stables who’s very experienced can work with you AND your horse a few times a week until you are more confident.

[Calena]

I agree that is one drafty looking warmblood! Cute as a very big button :).

I’m glad to hear you’ve signed up for some help. That would be my first piece of advice. Regarding the biting, there are two methods that work for me.

First, remember that your bony elbow can hurt when teeth run into it. Keep elbow prepared at all times and let him run into it if he swings toward you. This might not be the best way of dealing with a biter, but it has the advantage that your elbow is always there for you.

Second (I hope I can describe this correctly), when working from the ground, use a lead with a chain shank. Place the rope on the opposite side of the horse from where you are standing and drape it over the horse’s back so that you can hold it from the side you are on. If the horse swings towards you, grab the rope and yank! You’ll effectively pull his head away from you and discipline him with the shank at the same time. It doesn’t take long for the horse to think twice about swinging in your direction.

And as in anything horse - consistency, consistency, consistency.

Congratulations on your acquisition. I hope all goes well for you.

[AnnaCrew]

Thank you.
No, is not Persheron - he is purebreed Latvian breed. They can be huge. I really wish he would be a bit smaller.

This biting for me seems not even a dominance thing - he just wants to play. Like today when Peter was brushim him outside, he was trying to chew the lead or get Peter’s sleeve (not hand). So Peter just passed him metal scraper and he was not happy to chew that. Other than that he was standing quite still and enjoyed brushing.

Poor horse is bored to death - he has spent 6 months in barn, in very small box looking at bare stones, without any excercises or job to do, or at least an entertaiment.

he enjoys being outside and taken care so much, so he just gets into playful mode. And he do not like when you leave. Yesterday he was not letting to put bridle on, he was shaking his head all the time, so Peter said - ok, I’m leaving you. Horse walked after him, calling him to return and allowed to put bridle on then.

I’m trying to read all possible information about how horses think, what is their body language - I must understand him.

I have 4 dogs (3 GSD and one St. Bernards), and I feel them even with my back, but horse is something new and different to me.

[justhanginon]

A little girl at my barn got a nice quarter horse in every way except being nippy. Sounds just like your guy - he had been bored. He wasn’t really trying to bite being mean, just mouthy. She consistently gave him quick smacks on the nose anytime he tried it and in no time (like 2 weeks) it stopped. Good luck, he looks like a cutie and I am sure he is happy to be with you.

[AnnaCrew]

We shall try out these things out tomorrow, hope something will work. Thank you for advices.

A quick novice question about bite. he has soft mouth so he has quite soft bite. But there is a problem: on his old bridle (that you can see on pictures, just one rope with a bite at the end) the bite is 15, and when we went to get the new one, the largest was 14.5.
Seems that the new one fits right, but anyway I will better ask you - is it OK to use a bit that is smaller by 5 mm?

here he is last summer, when he was in better shape

[criss]

If his old bit fits, a smaller one may pinch. But if there was a little room between the ends of the bit and his lips, the smaller one might be fine.

Just out of curiosity, does everyone in Latvia lead horses around using bits and bridles? Over here we only use those for riding, driving, etc, not just to walk the horse around. For just walking around we use halters with lead ropes clipped to the bottom ring. Or, for a little more control, you can use one with a chain threaded through the side ring, wrapped around the noseband, and clipped to the other side.

The horse is lovely! I hope you are able to get some lessons on taking care of him, because there’s a lot to know and you will all be happier with someone to help! He’s a big horse, and while it looks like he wouldn’t mean to hurt you, it certainly could be dangerous!

It looks like your husband is standing right next to him while he is rolling. The horse could easily roll on him or accidentally kick him while getting up, so he should be careful.

Good for you for giving this horse a better life!

[JB]

@AnnaCrew;2987151

Thank you.
No, is not Persheron - he is purebreed Latvian breed. They can be huge. I really wish he would be a bit smaller.

Wow, very interesting! I’m going to have to read up on these guys!

This biting for me seems not even a dominance thing - he just wants to play.

A play drive is all well and good - as long as the first thing to adhere to is human safety Can you guys get what we have, called a Jolly Ball? Rubber, nearly indestrutable ball with a handle? Many horses LOVE to pick those up and fling them and play with them. I would encourage his playfulness as a productive energy outlet

[AnnaCrew]

Jolly Ball is actually the only toy available here for horses. I’m looking for a toy, that he would play with in his box - so something that I can hang on the ceiling and he can play with, chew as much as he can. When he is outside, he is quite busy, the boredom is the life in box. As he had spent 6 months in the box, we can not keep him stright out all day (it is still winter here) as his barn is warm, and I worry that without normal build up immunity to cold he can get something like pneymonia.
So we are just increasing his out time by half hour every day, and spring will be here soon anyway. Until then he must spent time in his box anyway, so a chewable toy is needed.

PS. Here is the short history of Latvian breed if you want to read about them
http://par.zirgiem.lv/enindex/envesture.html

[veezee]

Neat horse

Congratulations on your new horse. He is beautiful. I had never heard of the Latvian breed so I looked them up. There was alot of information about them.
http://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/latvian/index.htm for those that might be interested in learning more.

As for the biting, I have experienced horses that bite when they have been bored. After a short time of putting them back to work the bad little habit of nipping has stopped. I have also immediately reprimanded when they bite and then go back to work as normal. Luckily this would work in a short period of time as they got put into their new routine. Sounds like you and your husband are on the right track with him. He is lucky to have you.

I wish you and your husband lots of happy trails with your new horse.

[AnnaCrew]

Thank you!
Probably best known Latvian breed horse so far is Rusty
http://www.eurodressage.com/news/dressage/germany/2000/rusty.html

(Internet is full of info about him), he was quite good in dressage.

[Petstorejunkie]

Anna, Welcome to COTH! you have quite a handsome boy there!
Horses play bite with eachother, and you are on the right track in assuming it is a behavior out of boredom. The solution is two fold

1. Correct the biting without engaging the horse in play. When he gets mouthy, you must repost subtly and quick. If you were to swing your arm back and smack him hard on the neck, to him you are just playing back! I usually do a very swift subtle flick of the wrist and smack them on the nose. No movement other than hand and wrist. I have done the method with the thumbtack and it works very well.
2. Mental stimulation. Obviously it’s still cold outside, and you have limited toys, but if you can teach him something every day that will help him alot. Do things like getting him to stop when you stop, follow behind you instead of beside you, backing up, picking up his feet and being mannerly about it. putting your fingers around his ears, nose or mouth. Pick one thing to work on a day, and then end on a good note. You could get a book on horse tricks and see if you can focus his energy towards something fun!

[pearl_s_mom]

He is a very handsome boy . he is lucky to have you. Sounds to me like you are going about things the correct way. My Percheron mare can be nippy and playful at times. I keep my elbow out between she and I. If she comes to close, she bumps into my boney elbow. Make sure he does not get into your space. Imagine you have a big circle around you that he can not enter unless you ask him into the circle. I think he is going to be great once you get to know each other better. Good for you and your husband for taking on such a challenge. Someone said he looked like a Percheron and I thought so too. When I looked up the history of your horses breed, I noticed his ancestry is similar to that of the Percheron. Very cool. It sounds like at one point they were almost extinct. What is his name? I bet he is very smart and will learn quickly. Best of luck and keep us posted. And your English is excellent:)

[FancyFree]

He’s so cute! I have mare who is three. She can be nippy. As has already been suggested, I use elbows or sometimes I pinch her nose. I hate biters. She does it less and less. Some recommend not giving treats in the stall but we haven’t had to do that yet.

You also should look into the toy that dispenses treats. It’s supposed to keep them interested for hours. I have a Likit ball hanging in my stall. When I can afford the treat inserts that is. She’d go through it in a day unfortunately.

[witherbee]

Some good advice here. I usually do the quick little slap on the nose and then go back to grooming etc. If it takes 100 times, it takes 100 times.

Question - is he a stallion or a gelding? Also, he looks to have a swollen and/or dirty sheath (one of the pictures shows something hanging down in front of his sheath, adn that usually means it’s past due for a cleaning) - I only mention it because you say you are new to horses, and want to make sure you have someone knowledgable check it and possibly clean it. You don’t want an infection there :o(. Not a fun part of horse ownership, but has to be done lol!

He’s beautiful. Some of what you do with your dogs can be helpful with him. A confident, leader-like, “alpha” attitude like you have with your dogs works wonders on horses as well.

Good luck - sounds like you are really helping this guy out and are trying to learn. Going to a riding stable is a good way to observe and learn (as long as they are calm and confident and the horses are treated well).

[AnnaCrew]

he is a gelding - I would not agree to take care of a stallon, nooooo, I m not SO brave
Yes, his sheath looks enlarged, but it had been like that at least past 5 years and our horse vet had not find anything. Other than that, he just happy rolled in dirt (it is about zero here at night, so ground is very muddy and even on trimmed lawn his hoofs are going deep in, so when he runs it is complete mud splash splash.
But it is clean clay with grass bits, so nothing terrible, except that he does not look neat and tidy. When he dries out not much brushing is needed.