Novice needs advices on naughty horse (We have a baby!)

[QUOTE=AnnaCrew;3725879]
Lieslot, special for you! Today Peter rode Giva for the first time! Look at them both - such a happy couple!
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/BBCedrik/14-12-08Giva1ride/PICT8420.jpg

We both are soooo happy about her! What an angel she is! Giva enjoyed soooo much, so happy, responding to any lightest command, easy as a couch ride and light as feather, taking great care of Peter. Car went past - she was great with it too!

OK, this was going on for 20 minutes only, just light trott and walking, we still must be careful with her back, we put medical gel pad on, of course, but still… This is the only first step, but what a step!

Now just go slowly, grow her muscles back in right places, and it will be not long when you will see them clearing jumps! Yahoooooooo!

Not bad for a horse that cost us 464$ (including vet bills) :D[/QUOTE]

They look great! :smiley:

And, no Anna, it’s not “novice fever”, I could spend all day at the barn, grooming, mucking out, cleaning tack, cleaning water buckets, organizing the grooming tools, you name it! And I have been with horses all my life (I’m 36)! I’m MUCH happier with a clean barn than with a clean house! :lol:

Happy Christmas!!

Merry Christmas to you all! Hope you all are enjoying time with your herd!

So far we were lucky to get a nice Christmas Eve. Got a tree home from the forest, decorated, had a meal (my mum is here so she made it while we were down at stables). At Christmas morning it was time to wash our foster swan. We did it in the dining room, in front of the open fire, next to the Tree. Our mistake. The swan really enjoyed the bath, but about 12 gallons were splashed out :slight_smile: Then mum tried to cook the gingerbred, but not much luck as cat stole the whole icing :slight_smile:

The worse was today.

Nice frosty day, no wind or wet snow so time to let horses out. Ours went out nicely - they do like the time out, of course. Then we tried to take out our Big Girl - one of the rescues. Our mistake. We tried it just in halter and a rope. No luck - she walked out of the stables, looked around and run back to hide in her box.

The second attempt with braidle and bite was the same. Nicely walking out, stop, quick run back into her box. Bite was not stopping her - there is no way that you can just hang on reins - she is huge and strong.

OK, we decided to try to take out other rescue in hope that Big Girl will follow her. Brenda walked out nicely, went into pastures, instantly stopped at the first hay pile and that was it - she was not interested in anything else.

Then Peter tried the slowly way - some hay down on isle, some on the road, some - near the pasture gate. A lot of kisses, a lot of patience and she went into pastures by herself. Our herd understood that she is frightened so they were not coming close, not making the usuall silly games like “Who is the boss?” or something. We thought that the problem is sorted. Wrong.

Big Girl suddenly, out of the blue run to the fence and flied ower it. Then she run into our winter paddock, through electric fence, jumped over the wooden fencing (at least 5 ft) and hide in the shelter (there is plenty of hay). As she was inthe paddock, we tried to get back our horses who enjoyed the damaged fence and were heading through the garden to the house. My mum got Inka (she is the naughtiest troublemaker), Peter got Giva and me - Shella. See, our horses think that escape means great fun around the house, not running away, so to get them back is quite an easy job.

Brenda, our calm rescue was a really a good donkey - she was just standing at the broken gate waiting for us to take her home or leave her there - she was just standing and waiting for us to tell what she needs to do - at least she is not a problem.

But another one… Big Girl dashed out of the shed, run around paddock 3 times, then jumped ower wooden fence on the other side, run into the neighbours yard, around their pond, run back, jumped back into the winter paddock (she was able to run down along the fence, but she decided to jump thus taking shortcuts so yes, she can jump), spotted that the barn door is open and with an excited squek run into her box, crashing again through the electric fencing that was left.

The good news - she always run back to her box if she can. The bad news - we have no idea what’s wrong with her. She had been to shows and was jumping with a rider so she must be controllable somehow (I have show records on her, it is for real). And she somehow was loaded into the trailer to travel here too. And she unloaded very easy here.
So she must had seen some outside world, but now she is acting like outside world is frightening her to death. And she is nice, sweet and polite in her box. She is quite sweet outside, she comes to you for a kiss and cuddle and then again runs away in a panic.

Her beheivior is so confusing! Maybe you can throw some ideas our way?

I just discovered this thread today. Anna, you and Peter are amazing! I have spent hours today reading about Puika and then Shella and then Giva… Please keep writing. I really think you should turn these posts into a book with photos. I think it would really do well. I am going to tell all my riding friends to read this. How is Puika doing now? Is Shella still breathing ok?

We think we found out Prega’s problem - she is just scared. She does not know the meaning of noble freedom outside - she likes HER box and is frightened if she must go in different box, she is scared if she is taken out and there is no job - when we took her, owner told us that she 1) never had been in electric fencing; 2) is pulling out chain. Seems that she just “forgot” to tell us that Prega has never been out in pastures like any normal horse as there is no other explanations to her mad beheivior when she is left outside with other horses in pastures - she is just panicking, completely crazy.

When she has bridle on, she is not the best horse, but absolutely bearable young lady - still scared but controllable. Put the saddle on and she is 90% of a normal horse.

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/BBCedrik/28-12-08/IMG_2931.jpg

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/28-12-08/IMG_2877.jpg

http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/BBCedrik/28-12-08/IMG_2934.jpg

http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/28-12-08/IMG_2878.jpg

She is trying out rider - maybe it is possible not to listen, but just trying - nothing really serious, very nice, strong young lady, indeed.

Now we are thinking how to calm her down, how to show her that outside life is nice, not scary… Peter took her out on lead today and walked in small circles over an hour, showing things like branches, pond, grass, snow… Poor girl. But she is listening, and at the end there were some contented phrrr phrrr - so we hope she will be ok soon. But when I’m trying to imagine horse’s life, 7 years without freedom in pasture … I only hope that her legs will be ok.

She has such sweet truthful eyes
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/BBCedrik/28-12-08/IMG_2900.jpg

Other, Brenda, is very cool girl, sweet and gentle, she is not a problem at all, I would say that soon she will be as good as Shella - she is standing even at broken fencing and not sneaking out - just standing and waiting until we shall appear and tell her what to do. When we compare tummies, seems that she is due after Shella, maybe even a month later, but let’s see.

Shella is in good condition, a bit wheezing again (it is cold here, so at night she must stay inside, in box)

Others are ok, enjoying life in full. :slight_smile:
Queen Giva
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/BBCedrik/28-12-08/IMG_2924.jpg

Shella
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/BBCedrik/28-12-08/IMG_2919.jpg

Inka
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/BBCedrik/28-12-08/IMG_2915.jpg

Weather here is quite nice for this time of the year - chilly, not much snow, some sun during the day…
http://i103.photobucket.com/albums/m138/BBCedrik/28-12-08/IMG_2986.jpg

some from today - just overall winter pictures
http://s450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/29-12-08/

Thanks for the update! I hardly recognize the horses (before and after pics). They look fabulous!

Keep fingers crossed for us tomorrow - we are planning to convince Puika to move in our stable. It is quite cold here, and horses are out only 4-5 hours during the day and Puika is spending his indoor time in his old box in his old - in that barn there are a cow and 5 pigs - not the right company for him. Too warm there and air is disquisting - he must move with other horses, next door to his best friend Shella. It will be a hard fight as Puika is very stubborn and likes his own place, but it is so wrong for his health! So keep fingers crossed for us!

Other than that all seems to be OK. Today we had one small victory with our latest addition - the large scared mare Prega.

She has something like seperation annexy - when majority of horses had been taken out, she panicks in her box until sees you approaching with bridle - then she calms down. It is such a job trying to read their past and find out what had been done to her.

See, others are there!
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/01-01-09/PICT8569.jpg

See, Giva and Shella are being real pigs there! Do you want to join? Look how nice is hay there!
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/01-01-09/PICT8589.jpg

Peter walked her, then lightly rode her bareback and then we released her in pastures along with other horses - she stayed there!

She was not panicking, started to eat, and the only problems we had when needed to take her back in.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/01-01-09/PICT8579.jpg

This is really happy picture - she is starting to relax outside on her own without a human leadership, she will be able enjoy her life as a horse among horses
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/01-01-09/PICT8587.jpg

She can not tell her story and what had been done to her, but she has problems to be led home. She is approaching in pastures when called - no problems at all, let you put the lead on, easy and sweet, 5 steps and then she panicks. Peter took her out through the gates and then again she panicked, Peter let the lead go, and she with a scream run back to her box by herself.

Other than that she enjoys human contact, she is not scared of many things that would scare other horses (car, running engine, tarpoline in wind over the hay near barn entrance - she is cool to all of these things, but frightens when led. Weird. We brushed her and she enjoyed every minute of it, she lifts her legs when asked - but leading is a big problem.

My favorite picture of today - I was taking picture sitting in car while Peter was on one side of the car door, and big girl - directly at the opened door from other side.
“Relax, gal, let’s have a fag!”:smiley:
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/01-01-09/PICT8560.jpg

But we hope that we shall be able to convince her that nobody will hurt her anymore, that she is safe now. She already rides better, still tries you out, but less and less.

Like this - nothing to really worry about
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/01-01-09/PICT8555.jpg

Giva, for example thinks that riding is a fun, a big bonus that she must earn for, this girl takes it as a frightening torture. But a small, 10 min ride each day, ended on a positive note, a lot of praises and some treats will make the deal - I’m positive about it.

She likes it, in general, and Peter keeps talking with her all the time.
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/01-01-09/PICT8552.jpg

At least today she was much more happier about life than yesterday

I’m very fascinated about the herd dynamics. Giva, our alpha mare has decided to help us in full to get the new, spooky mare Prega to adjust and learn all the patterns.

Prega is still very frightened of being outside, but Peter has the patience of the saint to win her with kindness. Today when horses went out, Prega again was frightened and run away from gate instead of going into the pastures. Peter stepped back and called her softly, She turned back and went to him. Then run away again. Peter continued walking backward, still talking calmly and she returned again. Many praises and into the pastures she goes.

At the beginning it took much longer and she was running not only 10-15 strides away but much more. I see her soon, very soon just going out without any issues.

I do not know what previous owners had done but other people who took buddies of our two abused from that stable, are having the same beheivioral problems - spooky outside, seeking comfort only in their box, so Prega’s problem is part of the whole problem in that stable. But we shall win, I’m sure. Because Giva is helping so much!

When it was time to take them in, Prega again freaked, jumped ower fence and run away. Peter released Giva to sort her out - Giva went stright after her and less than in a minute Giva was chasing her back directly in the stables and in her box and then calmly went into her own. Of course BOTH of them got many many kisses, cuddles and praises.

Maybe some of you will say that it will develop bad habbits or something and we must be stronger, but we really believe that calmly and in a kind manner we shall be able to convince Prega that not all people are evil and that now she is safe everywhere - inside or outside. It probably will will take longer that usual strong training but she already had it all and is frightened to death. So we decided better go slowly, step by step to convince her that good beheivior is always awarded and no punishments here more than strong voice.

Why I’m so sure? Because it worked on Puika! I’m sooooo happy about him now. He does not need even a lead - he follows voice command and is going nicely out of his box and stables to pastures, and the same way goes back - call him, open pasture gates and tell him to go home and he does - calmly and happy goes home, into his box next door to Shella. And he has been in his new box and new stable only 3 weeks now - when we tried to get him used to the new stable last summer, he refused in panick and now he is going by himself, so obedient and happy.

I would say that Puika is a different horse now in comparison that poor soul that we took over nearly a year ago, so I believe that the same will work on Prega. She wants to love and wants to be loved - even Giva understands that so we are very optimistic.

Other new mare - Brenda - in general is very calm, only some issues over hay - today she even tried to chase Peter away a bit from the hay bale in pastures when it was time to go home, but again - Giva instantly told her that such beheivior is not allowed here and Brenda went to Peter to say sorry and obediently followed him back home.

Do your alphas are such helpers to you too or Giva is a special one? :smiley:

herd dynamics are so important to understand and you are good to have recognized all that your herd needs…the natural herd of horses is one stallion/gelding out with mares…if more people understood that i don’t think they would have all the problems that they seem to have when they seperate their mares and geldings…mother nature gave the lead mare wonderful ways to keep the herd peaceful…if only more people would use her wisdom

Anna- I had a mare who came for the race track and was also afraid of being outside alone. If I sat in the field she would eat grass and be fine but otherwise she would knock the gate down or run up and down until we let her in. She finally learned that it was OK to be outside all day from another horse who told her not to be so silly and to stop running and eat! Then a few years later she had some weaned foals to take care of and she taught them to be calm in the same way. It was interesting to watch.

In our case it seems more that being outside means senseless beating for Prega so she is frightened and panicking when we shall start to beat her. Now she had learned that being in pastures is OK, it is not a sin, and eating grass also is OK - others can do it and is not punished so she can too. It will take her some time to understand that GOING in and out does not mean punishment as well… Poor horse - all in all she just wants to be a very good girl.

Isn’t it wonderful to have a helpful alpha mare? We once had one who always made sure the herd was orderly and peaceful. If fights broke out between the geldings, she would run over and stop it, if a horse didn’t come in with the rest she would go back and get it. But she was also very deferential to humans and understood that the human was her boss. Lovely mare, I miss her!

I think alpha mares are worth their weight in gold.

My daughter’s first horse was an alpha mare, often referred to as the smartest horse in the barn. Never got in trouble, never had stupid accidents. Because we have always boarded, I have not had the opportunity to study the herd dynamics as much as you have. But it was always fun to watch when I was at the barn.

She could keep a group of horses peacefully grazing on separate piles of hay with, as the barn owner said, “all it takes is one look or flick of the ear.” (of course, this was after she had to take a bite of each pile first!). When it came time for them to come in at night, she rounded up the stragglers in the field and kept them briskly marching towards the barn.

She was a “one woman horse” who was devoted to my daughter. Her way of dealing with being away from home at a show venue was to stand in a corner, eat, and pout. No energy-draining pacing or calling out for her!

She was the most “un-needy” horse my daughter has ever owned. As long as she had food and someone to boss around, you never heard a peep out of her.

Your herd looks great in the winter wonderland!

Anna, I just found this thread a few days ago and it’s a good thing I’m home sick, so I can’t be accused of wasting my time reading your posts! It was obvious from your early posts that although you and Peter had no horse experience, you were already true horseman. You were always concerned with what was best for the horse, not what was convenient for you - that is the mark of a true horseman! You both are examples of what love and patience can accomplish with an animal. Thank you so much for sharing our lives with us.

Just latest news about Puika

Puika is happy. Just plain happy. He has accepted his new stable and new box and new freedom instantly and tries to be the best beheived one not to loose the key to the heaven.

For past few days we had established a nice routine about going to pastures. Peter takes iur little naughty Inka out first and leads her to pastures (she is just very naughty girl, can run away just to create havoc, just for fun so she can not be trusted). Then he opens Puika’s box, Puika is waiting inside until Peter gets Shella out of the box - then Puika is following Shella to pastures and I’m standing at the gate and letting them both in.

Then Peter does the same to our both newcomers - Prega is really frightened to le led around so we let her go free - Peter lets Brenda out and Prega happy follows directly to pastures. I am letting them in. And then peter takes out Giva and they have their special time together and he takes to pastures.

It makes our life easier - less walking to take out 6 horses one by one, and main thing - makes Prega feel much happier and relaxed.

Pictures are poor - it was dark and snowing, but you can get the idea how Puika is doing

Puika has just a life now
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8796.jpg

See, what I have now?
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8810.jpg

Puika with Inka and Giva
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8834.jpg

Shella, Prega and Brenda
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8836.jpg

Inka, Giva and Puika
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8842.jpg

Puika rolls while Inka watches
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8856.jpg

Inka rolls while Puika watches
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8858.jpg

Giva rolls while Puika watches
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8867.jpg

Giva, Inka and Shella
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8861.jpg

Company together
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8792.jpg

Peter and Giva on a walk…
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8774.jpg

…and on an easy bareback ride
http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq222/ozolkalni/22-01-09/PICT8771.jpg

OH Anna, your pictures are as always such a delight to watch! :yes:
Your herd is so happy and so peaceful together.
Indeed Puika couldn’t wish himself anything better really, I’m so happy for him.

And Peter & Giva are really buddies, so great to see them having an amazing bond :).

Sounds like you have found a wonderful routine to turn the critters out.

Yesterday was the first day when Prega let us lead her in without pulling and running away, and today…

Prega wanted a hug!

Peter goes into pastures to talk with horses, and they do queue up for a cuddle - it is the usual, daily routine.
Today Prega decided that Peter is not so scary, and took her position in the line, waited for a cuddle, and stood still for the second, and the third round ( it takes some time to cuddle all 6 standing in line and asking “me, me, my turn”).

Peter patted her and hugged her 5 times - all the time she was standing still and waiting for her turn, Peter put his hands around her neck and all what she did was calm and contented phrrr, phrrrr :slight_smile:

Peter before had just ignored her if she wanted to be alone far away at the other end of pastures, but today when he whistled and called the horses, she arrived along with others and stood in line.

What a relief - we are not scary enemies anymore, we are not dangerous, we can be trusted! Hurrah!

Nearly 2 months were needed to convince her that not all people are bad and that she can love and be loved again. She is still far from well trained horse, but today it was her own choice - to stand for a hug or move away back in pastures, and she made her choice. A HUG!

It is a big step in the right direction, isn’t it?

Anna, I have never posted on your thread but I read it regularly. I have to laugh at the title really. First you were asking advice, but I think that now, you could give advice yourself to new owners and old owners alike. “Be patient!”… I think that sums it up! You have shown such patience with these horses and every time, it has worked out!

A friend of mine ended up with a rescue who would always turn around and try to kick when approached. She ignored her and let the herd show her… it took a while, but it worked! She became as friendly as the others and always wanted the same pets/treats as the others.

You are doing a beautiful “job”… only so many more weeks till Spring!!!

So far I can not feel spring in the air - last night it was -19 C (-2 F) here :frowning:

Same here Anna… - 20ºC last night and for the next few nights… but we can always hope and dream!

Today is a very big day for me - my first anniversary on COTH! I want thank you all from all the help that I got and still am getting - you all here are so nice, encouraging and ready to share your knowledge and experience with such a novice like me. Thank you all!!!

I still feel a very novice, but this was a hard year for me - first time in the box, first walking on lead, first lunging… First riding, first falling off, first broken bones :slight_smile: And learning, learning and learning - tons of reading and then going out and learning horses alive, back here and out again… day by day, night by night… We did it. better or worse but we did.

Puika, our first baby is not biting anymore, his beheivior is sorted out and now he is living happy healthy horse life - he has his own, quite large box which he likes and goes out and in without any problems. He has nice horse company around and has learned herd beheivior. Now he is free from chain and had learned new possibilities in large pastures with electric fencing around.

Farrier had done with his rear legs and he has no problems there as well. His tummy is much better now and with simple medications we can keep him without these annoying daily colics now. And now he starts to blossom and act like true Latvian breed horse must to - sweet, clever and very obedient boy. And the best thing - I’m sure - he is absolutely happy horse now.

Without all your kind help Puika would be gone to slaughtery. Instead of miserable death he has a wonderful life now!

THANK YOU ALL - THE WONDERFUL COTH COMMUNITY! YOU ARE THE BEST!