Now what!? Ready to throw in the towel

[Critter]

So, my 6yo gelding came home this week from being at the trainers for just about a year. I’ve posted many times about this horse…broken ribs (healed), bleeding ulcers (2x, healed and managed), EPM (treated and on maintenance), Lyme (treated). And so on…I’ve spent 4x plus his purchase price in training, medical tests and vet checks…since I bought him as a yearling.

After the ribs and 8 months turnout to heal, I sent him back to the trainer, because I felt that I needed someone who could deal with his balky behavior (that’s how we found the ribs…he was riding fine until then for me). He got there and was pretty horrible…scoped and bleeding ulcers. Treated and healed (and has been maintained on omeprazole since). Still wasn’t right and was being naughty, tested very high titer to EPM and acute Lyme. Treated for both. Vets only treated one month for EPM (against my desire to treat longer)…had a bit of a relapse, back on meds…and then turned into a totally normal horse again. Have kept him on the 1x week dosing that the studies support.

Decided to leave him with the trainer all winter due to my schedule and to really get him totally back in a normal program. She was able to trail ride him with her infant…he was being that easy and quiet. A few others rode him while there, and no issues. But most of that was trail riding in groups. Did arena work every week and no dramatic issues.

He comes home…making sure we are on full tube omeprazole and sucralfate given his history. He is being super easy on the ground and to handwalk in the arena. I get on and he wants to launch me…backing up, running sideways, trying to paw, being a total mess. I try to just let him stand on a long rein and make a fuss over him and then ask for a few steps of walk. We did not ride long and I ended when it was my choice to halt and get off but it was ugly. He felt cold backed.

Tack is fine and fits correctly…no kissing spines (we had that worked up in the past). So, assuming there is nothing medical at this moment. I am an experienced rider and wasn’t asking him to do anything but walk on a relaxed rein.

Could he associate all the history of when he had the rib fractures with me (we assume he ran into a tree in the field)?? He’s totally fine on the ground for me…as long as I don’t put my butt in the saddle. I’ve put tons of money into training and vets…there’s not much we haven’t checked on him…plus he was going great for the young horse trainer for the last several months. I did not ride him there, due to distance (12 hrs away).

Could he just hate me as a rider?? I am really at a loss…and I admit I am losing confidence on getting back on him at this point. It’s not that I am a beginner and giving mixed signals…though the trainer and I certainly ride a bit differently. But all I was asking him to do was walk off from the mounting block on a relaxed contact. Just starting to wonder if there is something between him and I that won’t ever work out? And this isn’t the level of kick him on…it literally feels like if I do that he will blow up. Trainer is shocked…because he’s been so easy for her.

[fordtraktor]

Is this his first day or first few days ridden in the new place?

It is very normal for horses to get to a new place and revert to feral. My very very good boy at home sometimes has meltdowns in a new place/at a show.

I preemptively give ulcer meds and expect to do long walks where they act stupid, longe, then get on and lose 2 levels of rideability. I think this is normal.

That said, I am 1. Shocked your trainer is shocked, and 2. If you want easy, buy an older BTDT horse that has had someone go through the new place drama already.

Also, zero judgment if you throw in the towel. It is such a PITA to bring along a horse. The horses that just get to a new place and don’t care are few. They are flight animals.

[Jealoushe]

Did you rescope after treatment for ulcers? My gut says ulcers based on what you have posted.

[sammy14]

So horrible, I really feel for you.Are you using the same bridle/bit/saddle etc as the trainer? Can the trainer come and help, perhaps ride first? I would also give some ace the first few rides on a young horse in a new place, because as was previously mentioned, such behavior is not entirely unexpected from a youngster in a different situation.
Lastly, take a deep breath, and remember, you are on the young horse roller coaster, but YOU CAN DO THIS!

[fivestrideline]

OP you said most of the rides at the trainer’s were on the trails - was he mostly ridden with other horses also in work? Are you perhaps taking him away from his “friends” and riding him alone? Could this be a case of extreme barn sour + green horse brain + a long history between y’all that is making it hard for you to be as objective about him as you’d like?

I wonder, too, if there is something different in his environment (hay, grass, water??) that is setting off his internal balance. Like the world’s weirdest case of allergies. Honestly though I’d take a hard look at what is different between your place and the trainer’s and see how much you can mirror what was working for him.

Do you think he could be safely rehomed? Because I wouldn’t blame you if you did. I’m not superstitious, but sometimes you gotta start fresh after such an ordeal. IIWM and I thought he could be fine for someone else, I’d send him to the trainer to be sold. But I can understand if that may not be possible.

[NaturalSelection]

Perplexing for sure!
OP says horse is maintained on omeprazole. Hopefully lifestyle (turnout, feedings) at home supports low-stress for this horse.

I am also bringing along young horses at home and while I’m experienced, I don’t have any nearby professional assistance. When I run into an issue, I work hard to resolve on my own. Lately that means getting creative. I also get resistance from the horse undersaddle that never appears in groundwork. If it feels like too much to work through undersaddle I look for a good place to end and then try with long lines. Ground driving/long lining has been a really good hybrid of riding and groundwork that gives the feel of riding for the horse with less risk for me. Good for instilling forward with a vocal cue that you can use as a bridge undersaddle. This might help you get through the forward resistance you are describing.

Is there a professional you can work with locally?

[vxf111]

Is your tack 100% the same as what was used by the trainer? How is your setup? Is he herdbound? Can he see other horses when you ride?

[mmeqcenter]

Did you ride the horse at the trainer’s? Or just other people?
How many horses do you have at home? Were you riding alone? When doing arena work at trainer’s, was he alone?
How long had he been home before you got on? Did you do any prep work?
Are you using the exact same tack that was used at the trainer’s?

But yeah, sometimes a horse and rider just don’t “click.” Though this sounds like a pretty extreme reaction. I would assume something else is going on. Need more info for sure.

[Critter]

Here’s some more info…
This was first ride after coming home and having time to recover from the trip. I wasn’t expecting him to be a rock star…but I was expecting I could safely get on and walk around. He lived here for 2-3 years pre trainers, so this isn’t a totally new environment to him. I don’t need easy and made…but I do need safe and not going to launch me just for sitting on his back.

The odd part is he was totally chill…tacked up easy, walked around the arena a bit…not spooky or looky, no calling out, not revved up in any way…so it was even more unexpected to get that reaction when I got on him.

Tack is not the same as the trainer…she mostly rode Western but did ride once a week in a dressage saddle (that probably was less fitted to him than the one I am using). Bit is the same (eggbutt snaffle) and bridle is essentially the same style (she used an english bridle on him).

After each ulcer episode he was rescoped and clear. After the last one, we kept him on omeprazole (first UG, then the compounded stuff from FarmVet, then the Abler)…kept him on equivalent to 1/2 tube of UG daily. With traveling, I switched him to a full tube of UG and back on sucralfate, just to be extra careful.

He was being ridden mostly on trails and mostly with others…but he’s not very herd bound and didn’t seem nervous (no looking/calling) in the arena. He was at times worked alone and was fine at the trainers whether he was solo or in a group.

2 other quiet horses at home…they are all out 24/7 on grass unless the weather is really crappy (same as with trainer)…minimal grain (ration balancer and supplements). Hay free choice if they do come in (again, they are mostly out).

Trainer has volunteered to come here if I can’t work him through this…but that probably won’t be possible until later this month due to their schedule.

Asking a friend to borrow their western saddle to see if that makes a difference. Today I just lunged and did groundwork…have to go to the grad ceremony for work, so I’m not in the mental space to deal with any drama today. He was mostly good to lunge with a few mini meltdowns going to the right. (bolt/crowhop/spin on the lunge)…he did settle, but we are also having cold/rain/wind, so that could contribute, though he was not spooking.

Worst case…trainer comes to ride him at some point and if he still acts up with me only…I can give him to the trainer. She can either find a home that will work, or she might even keep him as he is super reliable for her to use to pony other babies…the barn manager loves him and would probably adopt him too…so he would have a safe and soft landing.

[endlessclimb]

To some degree it sounds like he might have your number.

Can the trainer ride him just to see (as you said), but also maybe give you lessons at your place?

[Critter]

Trainer lives 12 hours away…so no options for her working him at may place or doing lessons. She did volunteer to come once and triage what might be going on so we can see if it is a “me” issue or a “my place” issue, etc. But that will take a bit of planning. She’s invested in making sure he is going well, so she is willing to come once to problem solve. But it’s not something that can be done routine due to the distance away.

[BeeHoney]

I really doubt he hates you or that it is some weird association to the rib fractures. Some horses can be extremely specific to circumstances, surroundings, and equine company, and even tack or other factors we don’t recognize, that’s true, especially if this horse was only being ridden in groups for the past 8 months.

I realize you have already invested quite a bit in this horse, but either way if you keep or sell, he needs to be under saddle (or you need to clearly know that he is going to be a more difficult horse which would also affect what you would do with him). What are your options to have a local trainer work with him at your place to attempt to get him over this hump? Or even to send him out again to someone more local?

Also–you mention this trainer lives 12 hours away. It’s really hard to keep tabs on what training and what amount of actual work is taking place when horses are in long distance training situations. It’s a very common scenario to find out that a horse that you are paying $$$ for in training bills is getting put on the back burner because the trainer is busier with horses that have in-town owners that are more involved (or in this case it sounds like the trainer is caring for a small infant at the same time she is “training” horses).

Is it possible your horse WAS going well for this trainer, but then got put on the back burner when things were busy? Or that the quality / consistency of the training was somewhat lax? Trail riding a young horse with an infant is not exactly the height of a professional training program. Also, I would hope this isn’t the case, but some trainers do rely on medication and calming supplements to make their job easier. Either way, it’s easy for a long distance trainer to tell you whatever they want or so send curated photos/videos to support the horse’s progress.

I would assume that the most likely situation going on here is some holes in the horse’s training vs. unresolved original behavioral problems vs. a physical issue (potentially something aggravated by or incurred during a 12 hour trailer ride).

Have a vet checkup, if that’s okay, then connect with a local trainer for assistance with getting the horse going under saddle.

[candyappy]

@Critter

plus he was going great for the young horse trainer for the last several months. I did not ride him there, due to distance (12 hrs away)

@Critter

Tack is fine and fits correctly

I really think that it is beneficial to ride the horse under the eye of the one who has trained them. I realize they were far away but it could have really made a difference riding him with her watching/ instructing and with your own tack. I also wonder if the saddle does not fit like you think it does.

I hate to ask this but did you see for yourself that he was riding calmly enough to do all the things she said he was doing? The " supposed " choice of your trainer ( below) kind of horrifies me…

@Critter

She was able to trail ride him with her infant

Is there any trainer local that you can have ride the horse to see how that may go? maybe your vet or farrier may have a recommendation?

Anyone who could lead him for a bit to just get him moving when you mount up again? I hope you can get some help and be able to enjoy your horse.

[RhythmNCruise]

I was a little horrified by the “trail ride him with her infant” too. That…seems…unwise.

I’ve known horses who much preferred western saddles because they distribute the rider’s weight more evenly across a larger area. I also own a horse who had a dressage saddle professionally fitted for him and he never liked that saddle and it caused him some serious pain and behavior issues stemming from the pain even though the saddle-fitter said it was good. He preferred a lighter weight saddle with, again, a wider distribution of my weight due to the structure of the saddle (Wintec Isabell with the HART system). But he prefers a western saddle even more than that and his favorite is a close contact saddle that doesn’t fit him, but I use a Cashel correction pad between it and the saddle pad. He loves that set-up.

Tack makes a difference. Also, I knew a so-called “trainer” for many years whose training program relied heavily on drugging horses. She had a gelding in training once that was a really nice all-around APHA type (western pleasure, hunter under saddle, etc). She’d been working him western and wanted me to try him hunter. I lunged him a bit first because she said he could come out of the stall a little cold-backed. Once he seemed quiet on the lunge I tried to get on. Tried. Before I could get my other foot in the iron, the horse blew up like he’d just been released from the shoot at the rodeo. I stayed with him for a few moments but kind of half bailed half got tossed while he continued in bronco mode around the arena. When he was caught I took my saddle off and said, “Nope,” no thanks. She took him back to the barn to re-tack, and slipped him a little cocktail while she was at it.

I’m not saying your trainer does that. I’m just saying, there are a lot of things to consider. I also believe some horses don’t do as well in certain environments and, yes, with certain people. But I’d be very interested in seeing the trainer ride him in person, and helping you while you’re riding him with her there.

Are there no other trainers closer to you than 12 hours?

[Critter]

In regards to the trainer, I’ve worked with her for starting youngsters for the past few years. She’s started two horses for me…she sends video updates several times a week. Sometimes it is someone videoing her riding…other times it is videos while she is riding. So I’ve seen regular updates about what he has been doing. I’ve been to the barn and get regular updates from the barn manager as well. Definitely not a barn that uses meds to ride!

There are a few trainers in the area…but the ones willing to get on young horses are the ones you don’t want on your young horse.

I do wonder if some of the issue is related to the saddle and where it sits/hits him, even though the one was fitted to him and the other I tried looks to be an even better fit (given he has changed over the year from when the one was fitted). Have a lead on a friend of a friend who may be able to lend me a decent Western saddle to test out for a few days.

[keh]

Did you ride him there before you brought him home? Not judging, just curious.

If you can’t work with someone regularly, it may be best to part ways. You both sound very anxious in your current roles. I fear something in your equation isn’t working. The transfer of riders/locations may be a disservice to him/his needs.

I really hope you two work it out. You obviously have been very diligent in your care & want the best for him.

[fivestrideline]

I think having the trainer come watch/ride him is a good call. I also think it would be worthwhile to see if there is ANYONE capable to help you locally. Even if they don’t get on him, having eyes on the ground and knowledgeable (impartial) help may do the trick.

Not saying this is you, OP, but having moved all over the country myself it is so easy to think that there is no one in my new area “as good” as my connections in other states. I totally believe you that you may not have good colt breakers in the area, but I’d be asking around about someone locally who is known to do well with youngsters or quirky ones. Any discipline.

Definitely try the western saddle. I’ve got a horse in the barn that is headed that direction as he is SO picky about everything…

[greywithchrome]

I will add I also know a horse that strongly prefers western saddles. Is unrideable in anything else.

OP, I remember reading your last post and you’ve been THROUGH it. I think having the trainer come ride him at your barn to see what happens is a good plan, even if it’s a month out. And it’s good you have a soft landing in mind if it doesn’t work out. You’ve put so much into this horse and seem like someone that deserves a horse they can really enjoy!

[vxf111]

The difference in tack jumps out immediately to me. The dressage saddle may “fit” but he may disagree and prefer the western saddle. Have you tried him in a western saddle? I would try that first, it’s an easy thing to rule in/out.

[RhythmNCruise]

Yeah, it sounds like you’ve got a good trainer there. If it were me, I’d still want to at least see the trainer work the horse in person and get on the horse myself with the trainer there in person at least once or twice, with one of those times perhaps being when you pick the horse up to bring him home (unless he’s professionally shipped, in which case, that obviously doesn’t work).

12 hours is a long way away. Is there a difference in climate, etc? Is it cooler where you are? Hotter? Humidity levels different? Is the horse on the same type of grass in turnout? Same type of hay? I’m just thinking of environmental issues that could be causing the change.

My money is on the saddle though. The fact that he’s so good otherwise but gets tense when you sit in the saddle tells me it’s probably something to do with the way that pressure is distributed over his back that he doesn’t like. At least that’ll be a simple fix too!

Best of luck! Keep us posted! I’m rooting for you!