I’ve been thinking (obsessing) over my horse’s hoof quality and diet. My question is: how can a horse be deficient in vitamins and or minerals if he is getting the reccomended amount of a complete feed?
I understand that iron tends to inhibit copper absorption, but other than that, why on earth would he need a comprehensive v/m supplement if he’s on the appropriate amount of a complete feed?
You need to look at the guaranteed nutrition in the feed. Lots of complete feeds don’t have that many different vitamins and minerals in them. Or at very high levels. Same with VMS as well. All over the place. You need to read labels and do a bit of mathm
Is this a complete feed being fed on top of hay, or as a sole ration?
Most “comprehensive” supplements are anything but, and, despite how popular they are with horse owners, the vast majority of horses eating at least the minimum specified amount of a quality, balanced commercial feed don’t require additional supplementation.
HOWEVER, the minimum feeding rate assumes that you are feeding at least a certain amount (usually 1.5% body weight) of an average quality hay. Many, many, many barns don’t feed nearly enough hay. Some of us feed considerably more hay than that. So, the recommended feeding rates are not set it stone.
Edited to add: A complete feed is designed to be fed as the horse’s sole ration, in the case of a horse who can’t eat hay/grass for some reason or lack of forage availability. That is why the recommended feeding rates for complete feeds are much higher than traditional concentrates.
I’m not exactly sure how a “complete” feed can be labelled as such. There are so many factors that affect the nutritional needs. Geography being the first one that comes to mind! I live in an area that is iron rich (so I supplement copper/zinc), selenium deficient (so I supplement Vit E/Sel) with limited grass/pasture (small state that is densely populated) so even more Vit E. He also get a high quality pre and probiotic so he actually absorbs these expensive supplements.
My horse also has suspected PSSM 2 so I supplement him with high quality proteins and amino acids (Whey protein isolate, casein, etc) to support his muscles as he is in regular work (5 day/week dressage). He’s also a hard keeper, so lots of forage and fats (omega 3s to reduce inflammation) to keep him at a good weight.
This all in addition to his balancer, as he needs to be as low NSC as possible. I hope this helps! 
@JB this is right up your alley.
OP, it will never be perfect. Deficiencies occur sometimes because too much of one thing inhibits or even prevents absorption of another. Sometimes they occur because of a health-related issue where the horse cannot properly absorb the nutrients.
Does this horse eat hay at all? What complete feed are you using? Is your hay tested? Who is telling you he needs a VM on top of a full amount of complete feed? One thing to be aware of is getting too much selenium. If you are feeding both products at full recommended amounts then yikes…
All “complete feed” means is that it is something you could feed as a sole ration if the horse cannot eat forage. There are recommended feeding guidelines including minimums for horses who do also eat forage. But that means that if you feed that ration, the horse should be getting its minimum requirements met nutritionally. But it cannot account for everyone’s individual water and forage supplies and forage feeding programs and environmental causes for things like skin or hoof problems. You may need to supplement some things to help with this. Certain conditions (e.g allergies, muscle problems, immune issues, gut issues) might also benefit from extra supplementation of certain ingredients. Most don’t need all in one type supplements if they are getting a full ration of a fortified feed.
It’s being fed as his sole ration. He can’t chew hay well, but does ok with grass for now. He lives out, but pasture quality isn’t great.
No hay.
He’s on Triple Crown Senior Gold and I’m trying to improve his hoof quality, which has led me down a nutrition rabbit hole. Had him on tri aminos (was reccomended equinety, but tri aminos had higher concentration), but switching back to farrier’s formula because I think the tri amino is making him crabby.
I submitted his info to a free online analysis and they said he needs to be down to 2 lbs tcs gold and a bunch of supplements. I get that they are a supplement company, but if the analyst has a PhD and knows their stuff, how in good conscience could they reccomend something so complicated? Maybe I’m just naive. I just want to do the best for my horse 
Also, thank you everyone for your replies!!!
Carriers formula has way less of the things that matter, copper zinc biotin, than many VMS. You can do way better for hoof health.
I can’t think of any reason why he would be deficient from an intake perspective if he’s eating a good 15lb of this. But he could be deficient as a result of an absorption issue
what company? Was the analysis run on the amount of TC Sr Gold he’s currently eating? How much is that anyway?
Run far far away from a company who not only says a horse like yours - who can’t eat hay - should be on ONLY 2lb of TC Senior Gold, and then add a bunch of supplements.
It’s labeled that way from a fiber perspective, and also to generally not create toxic overdoses of any nutrient if fed as the sole source of food.
But even 15-20lb of a complete feed doesn’t guarantee enough of every nutrient to handle all absorption issues. And, if fed in that way, it doesn’t matter where the horse is, since he’s not eating much if any forage.
I use Nu-hoof Accelerator as my hoof supp. It’s got all the right stuff in very good amounts.
Senior feeds… are supposed to be designed so that horses with less capable digestion can get what they need. Without knowing anything but what you’ve posted, I’d just add a good hoof supplement.
15lb of TC Sr Gold has:
Fe - 1193mg (most of which is intrinsic, not added, and a large % of instrinsic iron isn’t bioavailable)
Cu - 447mg
Zn - 1772mg
Mn - 954
An average 1100lb horse needs 400mg, 100mg, 400mg and 400mg respectively.
That’s also a ratio of 2.66:1:3.96:2.13.
That’s pretty darn awesome, and not anywhere close to deficient in anything.
The only ratio that needs to be considered in this area is cu:zn, which should be around 1:4, and it’s pretty right on the dot here.
3000IU Vit E, and since half is synthetic that’s more effectively around 2500IU, which is plenty for the average 1000-1100lb horse, if you’re aiming at the upper range of the 1-2IU/lb
There are zero deficiencies in any of the other nutrients I looked at - ca, phos, vit A, amino acids, and some others.
There are factors other than nutrition that affect hoof quality. One of them could be the living outside 24/7. While movement is good for feet, some factors to being outside might not be, especially if you get a lot of wet ground or frequent wet/dry cycles. Some horses genetically or due to chronic abnormal movement/compensation patterns will have worse feet than others, other factors being equal.
Not to mention, the trim 
What are the actual concerns about his hoof quality?
Something else that we’re only juuuuust beginning to recognize is how the individual microbiome can impact health and nutrition.
So you might have two nearly identical horses fed identically in identical environments that respond very differently because the microbes in their guts are different–eating different things and producing different wastes and signaling differently to their host.
When I try to understand how my very, very similar horses need such drastically different supplementation of copper & zinc, this is what I point to. There’s still just so much we don’t understand.
Is there another you would recommend?
Mad Barn. Yes, I had to enter his current amount, which is 12 pounds a day. They said his fat to protein ratio could be more balanced, among other things. I think they were assuming our pasture here is actually nutritious. I was befuddled by their suggestions, and sent them an email asking some of the same questions I mentioned here. Haven’t heard back yet.
I’m not inclined to take their suggestions. I make it a point to feed what I think is the best feed for my horse so I don’t have to add a million supplements!
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