Nutrition Recommendations

[Feldspar21]

I’m moving my horse to a new barn in the near future, where I will have control over what he eats, and I want to make sure he’s getting all that he needs and that I’m thinking of everything!
16 year old Morgan/Friesian. Always been an easy keeper, but currently his hay is very limited and between that and some other factors, he’s lost quite a bit of weight and topline at current barn. Vet has evaluated him, no cushings, etc. Just not a good environmental match for him, and excited to get him back on the right track.

He will be getting nearly free choice hay in a haynet at new barn (timothy mix, grown in New England, variable sources, so hay analysis not particularly practical). Previously he looked great on a ration balancer and alfalfa pellets, so I’m thinking that I start with that and perhaps add a little rice bran (slowly) until his weight gets back to where I’d like? I don’t want to feed anything high NSC because while he has no metabolic issues diagnosed, he’s a Morgan X and I want to be careful. He’s always been an easy keeper, so maybe the alfalfa and rice bran are overkill once he’s at a new place with a more laid back environment and more hay…
Local Coop carries Blue Seal, Nutrena, Poulin, ProElite, Purina and Triple Crown. I don’t feel knowledgable on which ration balancer might be the best “bang for my buck” or might suit his needs best… perhaps someone else is a little more versed in this and can recommend?

Supplement wise, he’s currently on Vitamin E/Se (Elevate Se) and MSM. He had his E/Se levels checked about a year ago and they were good, but here in New England I worry about him getting adequate levels, so I’ve always supplemented. MSM because he’s getting older and he seems to warm up much faster since putting him on the MSM.
New barn’s water has a slight reddish tint to it, I’m thinking it’s pretty high iron…? I suppose I could test it, but thinking I should also supplement with Cu/Zn… Also thinking of adding NutraAmino (HorseTech) to make sure he’s getting enough of the limiting amino acids since he’s struggling to get that topline back, but not sure if that would be necessary. Any thoughts on the supplementation?
Feeling overwhelmed by all the products out there. He’s not looking how I’d like him to look, and I want to make sure his nutritional needs are being met at our “new start”.

[RhythmNCruise]

I had a similar situation with a horse I raised that has been an extremely easy-keeper, but when I moved him to a new barn he wasn’t getting enough hay and he just didn’t thrive. Long story short, I moved him to a farm that is literally adjacent to the previous farm where he is fed more hay and ProElite Grass Advantage ration balancer. He also gets a joint supplement, extra MSM, Omega Horseshine, K.I.S. Trace, and extra Magnesium (symptoms of deficiency). He looks ah-mazing now. In fact, he’s back to “air fern” status and since the grass is up we’ve had to reduce his ration balancer and amount of hay when in his stall during the day. He loves this barn and is much more relaxed, which I think translates to good digestion and easy-keeping.

All that to say, I’m a fan of ProElite Grass Advantage. My guy has been on all of the supplements I listed for quite a while and it’s definitely the ProElite GA that has brought out a lovely bloom and topline on him.

[Feldspar21]

Thanks for the advice!
He’s just never thrived at this barn. There’s so much activity all the time, he’s always sort of on guard. They don’t do hay nets, and it’s a fight to get them to feed much hay at all. He’s a hay hoover, 1 flake lasts him about 10 minutes. Those two things combined, plus losing a bunch of muscle due to having most of the winter off, and he’s not looking great! He’s back in work and in a reconditioning program, but he’s not putting muscle on as I’d like either. Very frustrating, but we’re getting back on track slowly but surely!

[FjordBCRF]

Ive got a 5 year old fjord gelding who is very much an air fern. After battling a mild case of laminitis last spring we readjusted and are doing super well.

His diet is as follows 2X per day:
California Trace Plus
1/3C Flax
1C beet pulp (as carrier)

For hay he gets breakfast/lunch/dinner flakes in a portagrazer and is out overnight with a round bale on a dry lot.

I also split a half pound of alfalfa/Timothy cubes before/after rides to make sure he’s got something in his stomach.

He also gets 1 serving/day of Stablefeed Chia/Papaya gastric support for fecal water syndrome and free access to salt.

Even for being a dun, he is sleek, shiny and getting dapples!

[fizzyfuzzybuzzy]

I’ll second RhythmNCruise – I like ProElite Grass Advantage, my guy was previously on Stamm 30 from Hallaway, but I think I like the ProElite better. Still on the first bag after the switch, but he seems to do well on it. I’ve also used Triple Crown Balancer with good success as well.

My barefoot trimmer recommended Vermont Blend Pro vs a pelleted balancer, although she did mention it is not as palatable as some of the other options. I did have Mad Barn do a diet analysis, but I didn’t find it super helpful – they didn’t recommend the Cu/Zn supplementation based on our location (also New England) that I feel has really helped my guy’s feet. If you’re in New England and the new barn has well water, you’re likely working with a high iron situation, so I would agree with your plan to supplement Cu/Zn.

I like CoolStance Copra better than rice bran, lower NSC and about the same cost. I’ve also supplemented with Whey Protein Isolate (human unflavored) that has helped my previously very underfed ex-Amish gelding add muscle instead of getting a belly or fat pads.

[JB]

Start with the new hay and a ration balancer. No additional calories. The new, higher quality hay (and more of it?) will do a lot more work than you might think. It’s better to go slowly and add calories as you go, then find yourself with a suddenly fluffy horse again.

An alternative is to remove soy from his diet, as that seems to agree with a lot of the easiest keepers even when it isn’t about calories. For example, if a ration balancer is 1200 calories (common), and you feed a forage balance (Vermont Blend for example) and 1lb of alfalfa pellets (1000 calories) then the 200 calorie difference is teeny in comparison to what’s coming from hay. But the weight or body composition difference can be more significant.

There are also a few soy-free ration balancers. TBH, that’s what I would do for this kind of easy keeper if you find a regular balancer + his hay + his work still has him too fluffy.

As for the E and Se - E is a definite must, just factor in how much any balancer (forage or ration ) is providing. For his Se, I would let him be without extra for 3 months or so, then re-test him to see how THIS new hay is doing.

Without a forage analysis, all choices of a balancer are going to be a guess. Me, personally, of the ones you can get, I prefer Triple Crown or ProElite, due to higher copper and zinc levels, but I don’t know the general iron content in soil in the NE to say whether that’s beneficial, or not really.

[lenapesadie]

I’m very happy with Triple Crown Gold Balancer for my Friesian x QH. It’s soy free, high in Copper / Zinc and low in iron (relative to many feeds), plus it has an excellent gut support package and balanced electrolytes. The mag content is high. Saves me from supplementing that.

I do supp with a bit of extra copper and zinc as my area is fairly high iron and my horses have always done better with that extra supp.

[IPEsq]

TC Gold Balancer is soy free and a good product. Overall protein percentage is lower, but protein is whey based, and my rehab specialist vet says they are seeing better results using whey products for topline building. My horse on it is a tank on stall rest, but considering he’s getting kind of obese now with almost 6 months of little activity, he doesn’t look metabolic. He looked metabolic at a much lower weight when I fed one of the soy based balancers. If you need more protein in the beginning, you could continue with the alfalfa pellets, but if he has no topline largely because he’s underweight, moving to a better hay situation might solve that problem on its own.

[JB]

And given that most grasses provide enough protein for the average horse even in moderate work, the loss of 77gm/lb (which is all most of those horses would get anyway), isn’t that big a deal.

[Feldspar21]

Thank you! The barn already has TC balancer I believe so that would be very convenient. I will continue with the vitamin E supplementation, and look into a Cu/Zn supplement. Any suggestions on a good one?
Is the general consensus that perhaps the Nutramino is just generating expensive pee? Or maybe could be helpful?

[JB]

@Feldspar21

look into a Cu/Zn supplement. Any suggestions on a good one?

HorseTech has the cheapest (not by a lot, a couple pennies maybe) with California Trace a close second. Uckele is the most $, but they have pellets which some horses (or situations) really need. For powder, you really need to add water or some other liquid to get them to stick

As for how much - without a forage analysis it’s a guess. But a reasonable, safe guess is a 1/2 scoop/serving of each of their products. That’s roughly 250mg of Cu and 625mg Zn. For a safety perspective, it’s guesstimated that the upper safe-ish limit of Cu of 5mg/kg, which comes to 2500mg for a 500kg (1100lb) horse, which is a ton, and it’s icky, so good luck even getting them to eat that much LOL And then it’s higher than that for Zn, as Zn is required in higher amounts, 3-4 times the amount of Cu

@Feldspar21

Is the general consensus that perhaps the Nutramino is just generating expensive pee? Or maybe could be helpful?

That depends on the forage situation. When my fatties are muzzled full time, reducing their grass intake, I make an assumption that maybe protein is reduced enough that some supplementation is beneficial. When I was using High Point Grass, I would add Nutramino. I’ve switched to Vermont Blend Pro which has the higher levels of the 3 AAs

It’s not terribly $$. 10gm lysine isn’t a huge amount, and could make up some small deficiency.

That said - with the proper amount of TC Balancer no, I wouldn’t add Nutramino, as you’re already getting 9gm/lb lysine, and a reasonable amount of methionine and threonine as well.

[islgrl]

I have a morgan, I’m in New England so have what is likely similar hay. I feed first cut timothy, Poulin ETEC Balancer (3 cups a day) Vitamin E, and then a few other supplements (joint and gut). I think I would start slow. If he is on a ration balancer of your choice ( I like mine, but honestly I think its mostly personal preference and ease of finding the one you want to feed) and he is getting an appropriate amount of hay and vitamin E the rest may all be superfluous. His muscle will return when you give him enough calories and put him back to work. If it doesn’t then and only then would I add in other supplemental support. I woudl keep it as simple as possible.

[stb]

@IPEsq that is interesting information from your rehab vet. I have noticed topline improvement on my 22 y/o gelding since changing from TC 30% to TC Balancer Gold. I wondered if I was imagining it or if something else was contributing. Either way, I really like the balancer. It seems to be more palatable than the 30%, as well.

[Feldspar21]

Okay, doing some shopping!

Assuming I feed 1 lb per day TC Gold Balancer + CA Trace Plus. Am I correct that that would likely meet all his needs in terms of Vitamin E, Se, Cu, Zn, and the 3 amino acids?? Or am I mathing incorrectly? Anything I’m missing?

TC Gold Balancer: https://www.triplecrownfeed.com/products/balancer-gold/
CA Trace Plus: https://www.californiatrace.com/about/california-trace-plus/

[lenapesadie]

My horse also finds the Balancer tastier than the 30.

[JB]

@Feldspar21

Assuming I feed 1 lb per day TC Gold Balancer + CA Trace Plus. Am I correct that that would likely meet all his needs in terms of Vitamin E, Se, Cu, Zn, and the 3 amino acids??

The amino acids entirely depend on your forage. CTP doesn’t have any AAs. TCBG has 4gm/lb lysine. That’s good enough for good quality forage, not enough for lower quality. You could hedge your bets and add a 1/2 serving of Nutramino.

You’re plenty covered in cu and zn for sure, but I’d use a 1/2 serving of the CTP, not a full one. At some point, more is just more. If you find excessive bleaching, or chronic skin issues, then you could bump up to a full serving and see if they resolve.

Vit E is likely to need a boost. The BG provides 1000IU/lb, but that’s a 50/50 mix of natural and synthetic, so it’s more like 2/3 of that. I’d add another 1000IU of natural E to the mix (or microIngredients gel caps are 1200IU, and is really cheap).

Se requires bloodwork to know if you need to supplement. For most horses, the amount of Se in a serving of any fortified feed is fine.

[lenapesadie]

TBH, I’d stick with the Balancer Gold. And supp Vit E and biotin, possibly cu/zn if you have known issues. Possibly add some Alf if your horse can take the calories as that will boost your proteins.

I could be biased though as that’s how I feed. Be sure to read the balancer label carefully. My horse takes closer to 2 lbs than one as he’s a bigger boy.

[FjordBCRF]

@JB

That’s good enough for good quality forage, not enough for lower quality. You could hedge your bets and add a 1/2 serving of Nutramino.

At my new barn, the hay sources aren’t always the same and neither is the quality. Nothing is awful but to the eye some seems better than others…obviously not able to tell nutritionally. Is Nutramino what’s generally recommended for a good amino acid supplement?

[JB]

I wouldn’t bother adding biotin unless the horse is showing a low quality hoof or rate of growth. Most horses make all they need, assuming a healthy diet.

You can’t tell anything about hay’s nutritional content other than some level of Vit A based on how green it is. The best you can do is see if it’s fresh, safe, likely to be palatable.

Nutramino is one of several AA supplements, and as good a guess as any